Not all pro players are selfish

MotionMan

Lifer
Jan 11, 2006
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(I searched for R)

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3301195

Red Sox, MLB resolve dispute over coaches' pay after team takes stand

FORT MYERS, Fla. -- The Boston Red Sox ended a threatened boycott Wednesday of their final spring training game in Florida, resolving a dispute over paying coaches and staff for the season-opening trip to Japan.

The game against the Toronto Blue Jays started an hour late when the team voted unanimously not to play or go to Tokyo after learning coaches and staff would not get a $40,000 appearance fee for the Japan trip. Players said they believed that fee was part of the deal.

"Everyone connected with the trip will be fairly compensated," baseball spokesman Rich Levin said.

Team spokesman John Blake would not say how the dispute was resolved.

"We're going to Japan," he said.

Earlier, catcher Jason Varitek said the team would not take the field or go to Japan until Major League Baseball agreed to pay the coaches and staff.

Varitek said players thought it was necessary to take a stand on behalf of the coaches and staff.

Donald Fehr, the executive director of the baseball players union, talks with Mike Tiroco about the Red Sox players' actions on behalf of their coaches and Barry Bonds. Listen Insider

"They're the basis of what takes care of us," he said.

Manager Terry Francona and his players were upset after learning staff members were not going to get a $40,000 stipend. The Boston Herald reported players insisted part of their agreement to make the trip included the fee -- for them and the coaches.

"We're so united. And I don't mean just the players," Francona said in a dugout interview with ESPN during Wednesday's game. "I mean the staff, the trainers and our players showed that and that's what this was about. It wasn't about being greedy. It was about trying to be unified."

Kevin Youkilis, the Red Sox player representative, said the agreement still needs to be put in writing and the compensation for coaches and staff "is not the greatest thing that we wanted for them, but it's good."

He stressed that the players felt strongly about not going to Japan without a resolution.

"The club's working on stuff and trying to get money where it needs to get," he said. "It was definitely an experience of a lifetime and it ended in a good way."

Terry Francona, seen here Wednesday with Sean Casey (left) and Jason Varitek, found himself in the middle of a dispute between the Red Sox and MLB over stipends for coaches for Boston's trip to Japan.

The World Series champions are scheduled to begin their season against the Oakland Athletics on March 25 and 26 in Tokyo. The trip also includes preseason games against Japanese teams and the Los Angeles Dodgers.

Boston's final spring training game in Florida, against the Blue Jays, began Wednesday about an hour after it was scheduled to start.

Unsure if the game would get in, the Red Sox sent scheduled starter Daisuke Matsuzaka, to pitch against Minnesota's Triple-A affiliate and started David Aardsma in his place. Matsuzaka is scheduled to be the Opening Day starter in Tokyo on March 25 against Oakland.

Before the game, the Red Sox clubhouse was closed to reporters because of the bonus dispute.

"We had an agreement," Curt Schilling, one of a handful of Red Sox players who talked with Major League Baseball on ground rules for the trip, told ESPN's Claire Smith.

"Some of the promises have already been taken away, now this," Schilling said. "As far as the players are concerned, [withholding the coaches' bonuses] can't happen."

''When we voted to go to Japan, that was not a unanimous vote,'' third baseman Mike Lowell told The Boston Globe, "but we did what our team wanted us to do for Major League Baseball. They promised us the moon and the stars, and then when we committed, they started pulling back. It's not just the coaches, it's the staff, the trainers, a lot of people are affected by this.

"I'm so super proud of this team," Lowell said, according to The Globe. "When we put it to a vote it was unanimous. We're all in agreement that we're not going to put up with this.''

That the players would consider such action "is really appreciated, to say the least," Red Sox hitting coach Dave Magadan told ESPN. "It means as much as the money itself.

"While we're very fortunate, a lot of people don't realize what we do. It's nice to get recognition from the players."

At Oakland's spring-training site in Phoenix, the Athletics didn't take batting practice before their game against the Los Angeles Angels. Players met in the clubhouse while several got in contact with Red Sox players and the union.

A's player representative Huston Street emerged from the meeting and said the exhibition game would be played and Oakland players would make the trip.

"You have to stay firm in your belief, and I believe we've done that. Results have happened. That's why we're taking the field now. We wouldn't be taking the field now if we didn't firmly believe that the right thing was going to get done," he said. "The right thing is going to get done. We're going to play in Japan, and it's going to be an incredible series that everybody has been looking forward to."

A Boston player contacted Oakland pitcher Alan Embree on Wednesday morning.

"I think we'll get together and talk about it. I was under the impression that everybody was taken care of," Embree said. "I don't care how they split it up, who's at fault, they just need to fix it."

He said a Boston player contacted him Wednesday morning. Oakland players planned to meet to discuss the situation before their exhibition game against a Chicago Cubs' split squad.

"For those guys to take that stance -- they're veterans. They feel strongly about it, and they brought it to the attention of higher-ups," Embree said. "We have to fix it one way or the other. ... Coaches deserved compensation. They're going over there, too, and every little bit counts."

For the Red Sox, it was a dramatic end to a quiet Florida spring training.

"I did not have an off day yesterday. I had the phone glued to my ear because I was promised some answers, and I haven't even received a phone call," Francona said. "So I'm a little bit stuck. What I want to do this morning is get excited to play a baseball game and what I ended up doing is apologizing to the coaches and being humiliated."

Nice of the players to stand up for the coaches, assistants and staff.

MotionMan
 

Ika

Lifer
Mar 22, 2006
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Why don't the players just donate to the coaches and staff? It's not like they can't part with a million or five.
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
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if they were really unselfish, they would have offered to pay them out of their own pockets.

how much do coaches make compared to the players?
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
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Originally posted by: Aflac
Why don't the players just donate to the coaches and staff? It's not like they can't part with a million or five.

How about because the league, not the players, wanted this trip in the first place?
 

Epic Fail

Diamond Member
May 10, 2005
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40k is great deal for a 2 day trip, the lower end baseball assistants make 100k/year?
 

rivan

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2003
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There's entirely too much money in pro sports. I'm no communist, but I think how some of the money in this country gets distributed is really fsk'd up.
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
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Originally posted by: rivan
There's entirely too much money in pro sports. I'm no communist, but I think how some of the money in this country gets distributed is really fsk'd up.

Convince millions to stop paying for tickets. Problem solved.
 

AlienCraft

Lifer
Nov 23, 2002
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Originally posted by: rivan
There's entirely too much money in pro sports. I'm no communist, but I think how some of the money in this country gets distributed is really fsk'd up.
That's because The Market is a sociopath.

 

QED

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2005
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404 Unselfish players not found.

If the Red Sox players were so unselfish, they should've chipped in and paid bonus for the trainers and coaches themselves. Instead, they refused to honor their own contract to force SOMEONE ELSE to pay the coaches.
 

Mr Incognito

Golden Member
Feb 20, 2007
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Originally posted by: QED
404 Unselfish players not found.

If the Red Sox players were so unselfish, they should've chipped in and paid bonus for the trainers and coaches themselves. Instead, they refused to honor their own contract to force SOMEONE ELSE to pay the coaches.

You need to understand none of the players want to do this. This is a publicity stunt by Major League Baseball, so if the MLB wants to fly the Sox half way around the world for a game that should have been played in Boston or Oakland, I think the MLB can pay 40,000 dollars of the millions they are making from this little field trip. If this was about traveling and playing domestically, then I could understand.
 

MotionMan

Lifer
Jan 11, 2006
17,124
12
81
Originally posted by: QED
404 Unselfish players not found.

If the Red Sox players were so unselfish, they should've chipped in and paid bonus for the trainers and coaches themselves. Instead, they refused to honor their own contract to force SOMEONE ELSE to pay the coaches.

You mean the contract with MLB who breached their duties under the contract?

So, you work for a company and the company agrees to give all employees a bonus. Then, after the contract regarding the bonus is signed, the company decides that the lowest paid employees will not get a bonus.

You think the highest paid employees should pay the bonus to the lowest paid employees?

MotionMan
 

Mr Pickles

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
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Originally posted by: QED
404 Unselfish players not found.

If the Red Sox players were so unselfish, they should've chipped in and paid bonus for the trainers and coaches themselves. Instead, they refused to honor their own contract to force SOMEONE ELSE to pay the coaches.

Uhh yeah that's how it works. It's the responsibility of the employer to make sure they get paid with money from the company, not the responsibility of co-workers. So the fact that they are willing to strike until coaches get what they deserve is more than enough. Just because they make big bucks doesn't mean they suck for not giving it to their coaches. Give me a break.

Boston still sucks though. Tampa Bay Rays ftw...
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
Originally posted by: QED
404 Unselfish players not found.

If the Red Sox players were so unselfish, they should've chipped in and paid bonus for the trainers and coaches themselves. Instead, they refused to honor their own contract to force SOMEONE ELSE to pay the coaches.

How the hell are the Red Sox players self-fish? MLB promised to pay this stipend to the coaches and then reneged after the teams agreed. Call MLB selfish.

The Red Sox and A's are being asked to end their spring training early to fly to Japan, play two games and then fly back to play more exhibition games.

And fwiw - the A's players weren't willing to pay for the coaches nor go on strike about it.
 

slayer202

Lifer
Nov 27, 2005
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I don't see how deciding to not go to work is an unselfish thing to do. It might be helping the coaching staff, but it does not qualify as unselfish
 

QED

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2005
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Originally posted by: Mr Incognito
Originally posted by: QED
404 Unselfish players not found.

If the Red Sox players were so unselfish, they should've chipped in and paid bonus for the trainers and coaches themselves. Instead, they refused to honor their own contract to force SOMEONE ELSE to pay the coaches.

You need to understand none of the players want to do this. This is a publicity stunt by Major League Baseball, so if the MLB wants to fly the Sox half way around the world for a game that should have been played in Boston or Oakland, I think the MLB can pay 40,000 dollars of the millions they are making from this little field trip. If this was about traveling and playing domestically, then I could understand.

Doesn't matter if the players WANT to do something or not. They are under contract to play in Japan. They should play in Japan.

Not honoring your contract is not unselfishness, no matter the reason.
 

QED

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2005
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Originally posted by: MotionMan
Originally posted by: QED
404 Unselfish players not found.

If the Red Sox players were so unselfish, they should've chipped in and paid bonus for the trainers and coaches themselves. Instead, they refused to honor their own contract to force SOMEONE ELSE to pay the coaches.

You mean the contract with MLB who breached their duties under the contract?

So, you work for a company and the company agrees to give all employees a bonus. Then, after the contract regarding the bonus is signed, the company decides that the lowest paid employees will not get a bonus.

You think the highest paid employees should pay the bonus to the lowest paid employees?

MotionMan

Show me the contract, and then I might agree with you the MLB renegged on their end of the deal.

If it really were as black and white as this, then the player's wouldn't need to strike-- any court of law can enforce a payment contract when the contract is laid out in black and white.

I'm guessing the players just "thought" it was in the contract, when it really wasn't. When they found out the clause wasn't in the contract, and they realized they really didn't want to go anyway, the threatened to strike.

 

QED

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2005
3,428
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Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: QED
404 Unselfish players not found.

If the Red Sox players were so unselfish, they should've chipped in and paid bonus for the trainers and coaches themselves. Instead, they refused to honor their own contract to force SOMEONE ELSE to pay the coaches.

How the hell are the Red Sox players self-fish? MLB promised to pay this stipend to the coaches and then reneged after the teams agreed. Call MLB selfish.

The Red Sox and A's are being asked to end their spring training early to fly to Japan, play two games and then fly back to play more exhibition games.

And fwiw - the A's players weren't willing to pay for the coaches nor go on strike about it.

Prove the MLB promised to pay this stipend to coaches, please. If they did, they should pay without the players having to strike. But the fact the players threatened a strike only goes to show their first option (lawsuit) wouldn't have been succesful-- probably because MLB made no such promise (at least, not in writing).

 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,695
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Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Originally posted by: rivan
There's entirely too much money in pro sports. I'm no communist, but I think how some of the money in this country gets distributed is really fsk'd up.

Convince millions to stop paying for tickets. Problem solved.

aye, there's the rub. I have to agree on both counts.

1. athletes are payed way too much for doing what they do
2. go back to the old-day salaries of 40-60k per year (what...150-180k in today's cash?), then all of those companies making billions off of their names are just exploiting them.

As soon as Gatorade, Nike, Reebok, Lexus, Budweiser, etc stop using their names and images to make wads of cash, then we should roll back salaries. They actually do earn what is appropriate, considering these entities make a good bit more then they do just using their names.


....before that happens, though, we can go ahead and send the sports agents to the bottom of the sea. no need to wait around to get rid of the leeches. ;)
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
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Originally posted by: zinfamous
Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Originally posted by: rivan
There's entirely too much money in pro sports. I'm no communist, but I think how some of the money in this country gets distributed is really fsk'd up.

Convince millions to stop paying for tickets. Problem solved.

aye, there's the rub. I have to agree on both counts.

1. athletes are payed way too much for doing what they do
2. go back to the old-day salaries of 40-60k per year (what...150-180k in today's cash?), then all of those companies making billions off of their names are just exploiting them.

As soon as Gatorade, Nike, Reebok, Lexus, Budweiser, etc stop using their names and images to make wads of cash, then we should roll back salaries. They actually do earn what is appropriate, considering these entities make a good bit more then they do just using their names.


....before that happens, though, we can go ahead and send the sports agents to the bottom of the sea. no need to wait around to get rid of the leeches. ;)
As long as there are billions in sports, athletes will make millions. It's really simple - just go watch a second-tier league, and try to convince yourself that 'the machine' would function without the best players.

It wouldn't, thus, the large salaries.

If the popularity of sports fails, the salaries will roll back themselves.
 

MotionMan

Lifer
Jan 11, 2006
17,124
12
81
Originally posted by: slayer202
I don't see how deciding to not go to work is an unselfish thing to do. It might be helping the coaching staff, but it does not qualify as unselfish

They were hired to play in the United States and Canada. Not Japan.

I am sure that the union contract has something to do with this as well.

MotionMan
 

MotionMan

Lifer
Jan 11, 2006
17,124
12
81
Originally posted by: QED
Originally posted by: MotionMan
Originally posted by: QED
404 Unselfish players not found.

If the Red Sox players were so unselfish, they should've chipped in and paid bonus for the trainers and coaches themselves. Instead, they refused to honor their own contract to force SOMEONE ELSE to pay the coaches.

You mean the contract with MLB who breached their duties under the contract?

So, you work for a company and the company agrees to give all employees a bonus. Then, after the contract regarding the bonus is signed, the company decides that the lowest paid employees will not get a bonus.

You think the highest paid employees should pay the bonus to the lowest paid employees?

MotionMan

Show me the contract, and then I might agree with you the MLB renegged on their end of the deal.

Right after you show me the contract that said that the players agreed to play in Japan.

Neither of us have the contract, so neither of us can show anyone anything. Based on what it says in the article, part of the agreement (i.e. contract) was that the coaches etc. would get $40k. Is that really that hard to understand?

If it really were as black and white as this, then the player's wouldn't need to strike-- any court of law can enforce a payment contract when the contract is laid out in black and white.

You sound like a lawyer. The court system is the least efficient way to resolve such disputes. For many employer/employee issues, I might agree with you, but not in this case.

I'm guessing the players just "thought" it was in the contract, when it really wasn't. When they found out the clause wasn't in the contract, and they realized they really didn't want to go anyway, the threatened to strike.

See bolded text.

MotionMan
 

MotionMan

Lifer
Jan 11, 2006
17,124
12
81
Originally posted by: QED
Prove the MLB promised to pay this stipend to coaches, please. If they did, they should pay without the players having to strike. But the fact the players threatened a strike only goes to show their first option (lawsuit) wouldn't have been succesful-- probably because MLB made no such promise (at least, not in writing).

Have you ever heard of an oral contract?

MotionMan
 

AlienCraft

Lifer
Nov 23, 2002
10,539
0
0
Originally posted by: MotionMan
Originally posted by: slayer202
I don't see how deciding to not go to work is an unselfish thing to do. It might be helping the coaching staff, but it does not qualify as unselfish

They were hired to play in the United States and Canada. Not Japan.

I am sure that the union contract has something to do with this as well.

MotionMan
I'll bet the MLB side is citing "promotional appearances" section(s).


<--- some experience with Musician/ Recording Industry contracts.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
Originally posted by: MotionMan
Originally posted by: QED
Prove the MLB promised to pay this stipend to coaches, please. If they did, they should pay without the players having to strike. But the fact the players threatened a strike only goes to show their first option (lawsuit) wouldn't have been succesful-- probably because MLB made no such promise (at least, not in writing).

Have you ever heard of an oral contract?

MotionMan

Correct

Boston pitcher Curt Schilling said they learned Tuesday the deal was not what the players and coaches thought they'd agreed to with baseball.

"I think everyone was kind of caught off guard," he said.

Red Sox first base coach Luis Alicea said he appreciated the support of the players and feels the entire issue is "embarrassing."

"We all like to feel as if we're part of the team," Alicea said. "We help the players and we appreciate what they're trying to do. We thought this issue was resolved a long time ago. To have it come down to the final day is embarrassing. That's about all I can say about it."

Red Sox batting coach Dave Magadan also said he appreciated the players' support.

"It means as much as the money itself," he told ESPN.

Schilling was one of the players involved in the negotiations last fall.

"We had an agreement. We had an agreement in October," Schilling said. "I was one of the five or six players on the phone call. Some of the things they promised they've already taken away. From the players point of view, we all felt the same way. They can't do this. This can't happen."

Schilling said a few things have already been "taken away" by Major League Baseball.

"In October when we were on the phone call, they wanted this trip to happen so badly, and now they've fallen by the wayside time and time again. The things we were adamant about at the time we reiterated time and time again, and it was never an issue."

What things?

"Different personal things that were supposed to happen from an accommodations standpoint. Little things that tend to make trips like this easier. It's been more than one thing. Hopefully, it's just miscommunication, and it will be fixed," Schilling said.