They could be silent or make excuses for it. They were up front that he was in the party and rejected his actions. Meanwhile, Obama's approval ratings with Muslims are going down because he assassinated Bin Laden. Whereas in some situations movements don't do enough to reject the violence done in their name, here we have an organization clearly rejecting the actions of a terrorist.
JD50
Lifer
- Sep 4, 2005
- 11,750
- 2,334
- 126
Why? I know a lot of Republicans and none of them would condone this guys actions. What kind of people are you hanging out with and why?
no, I said....
It's called politics for a reason.
You can spin yourself into the ground with the rest of it.
So what? Norway doesn't have a lot of crime. They messed up. Are you suggesting the government was somehow complicit? Do you think this party is in the current government? Because they're not.
As you mentioned several posts above, they could have stayed silent or made excuses for it, but how does that help them politically? Doesn't seem like a difficult decision from a political standpoint.
How does any of this help them politically? It doesn't. The point is that it's silly to act like this is part of the platform or even ideology of the right-wing in the West. It isn't.
Of course the party is condemning the attacks. They are a political party. They'd lose all credibility if they did anything else. T
he killer was at the extreme of their philosophy. His advocacy of violence is not mainstream conservatism. He is, however, a conservative and his actions were motivated by that philosophy.
Funny, I've never seen you start a thread to point out when Islamic groups condemn acts of Islamic terrorism. They do it all the time.
- wolf
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I've already addressed the deterministic argument that they are political therefore they must do X. There's nothing that says they have to do X except your expectations. Plenty of political parties have unpopular opinions, especially far-right and far-left parties in Europe. Are you suggesting that they have a secret support for this kind of terrorist attack against their own citizens?
The Muslim world's condemnation of terror attacks is much more half-assed than what we're seeing here. We had a thread recently showing that opinions of Obama have gone down in the Middle East because he killed Osama. How pathetic is that? That's outright approval of terrorism. But what I've seen most of the time are excuses and deflections from the Muslim community and its defenders. "If American foreign policy did this... If economic conditions were only so and so..." There is no excuse for this kind of terrorism. This party should get credit for not making any.
So yeah, I'm perfectly aware that I don't post about certain Muslim groups condemning terror attacks and my doing so for this conservative group in Europe is done expressly to contrast it with the half-assed condemnations that come from the Muslim world.
The fallacy in this argument is that you simply sidestep my point - that any political party who wants to gain seats in a government body will condemn the mass murder of 85 kids. And a mainstream party associated with the ideology of the prepetrator is under special pressure to do so or it faces serious problems with its public approval. No, I am not suggesting that they secretly condone it or don't secretly condone it. I am suggesting that nothing whatsoever can be determined from a PR statement made by a political party in a modern, media driven democracy.
Not all statements from Muslim groups condemning terrorist acts contain the qualifiers you are claiming. Not even close. So the point of contrast is questinable at best.
You should take a look at statements made by pro-lifers about anti-abortion violence. Sometimes they contain qualifiers. These people believe they are trying to save babies from being murdered, and some characterize abortion as worse than the Holocaust. Wouldn't you use violence to stop Hitler from sending the Jews to the gas chamber, after all? You want a gentlemen's wager than I can find at least 10 statements online that are various forms of apologia for this sort of thing? Oh I don't condone this, but... You know what I mean.
- wolf
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That just serves my larger point. This act really isn't part of any identifiable agenda in the west. All the claims that this somehow reflects on the right-wing in the west are completely bogus. Nobody would possible condone this act and I don't think it's just PR.
Let's cut to the chase: What do you honestly think is higher? The percentage of right-wingers in the US and Europe who support this guy's terrorist act or the percentage of Muslims in the Muslim world who support Islamic terrorism. I suspect the percentage in the west is essentially zero. Maybe a tiny minority of mentally ill people. In the Islamic world? You know it's higher. For example, 57% of Jordanians in 2004 said violence against civilian targets was justified.
I don't doubt that. I don't think that's really relevant to this event though since it doesn't sound like abortion was one of his issues. Like I've said before, I'm happy putting the abortion killings into the conservative Christian column. What are we dealing with? 50 deaths at most in the past century for this issue?
nCred
Golden Member
- Oct 13, 2003
- 1,106
- 107
- 106
A bit sensitive are you? I'm not a big fan of the ad, probably designed to cause controversy. But you are reading way to much into it.
yeah so the psycotic killer was anti-immigration so therefore you're on his side if you don't think immigration is all that great? You should have brought up Hitler too while you were at it.
Broheim
Diamond Member
- Feb 17, 2011
- 4,587
- 2
- 81
I just feel the need to point out that (99.9999% of) conservatives in Scandinavia == liberals in America. I have said it before and I'll say it again, we're extremely moderate in Scandinavia
and as for the Ad, as Infohawk already pointed out it was meant to start a debate about the dispropotionate percantage of crimes being committed by immigrants and how integration have failed, it also doesn't single out muslims, do it? Eastern europeans are just as big a problem.
and as for the Ad, as Infohawk already pointed out it was meant to start a debate about the dispropotionate percantage of crimes being committed by immigrants and how integration have failed, it also doesn't single out muslims, do it? Eastern europeans are just as big a problem.
LOL, no. It depends on the issues. However, much of their rationale is race-based. Even European liberalism is often race-based. Race-based politics are on the far-right and on par with psycho KKK members.
Scandinavians are quite extreme in their far-right politics. This attack is just another example of it.
The advertisement was meant to start create a situation like this. The far-right doesn't care about discussion or debate.
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