Northwood 2.0?

[Ronin13]

Hi

I'm planning on building a P4 rig using an ASUS P4T-E (with the i850 chipset and RDRAM)

I would like to get the 2.0 Northwood, but seeing as it's more than twice the price of the 1.6 Northwood I was wondering what kind of difference I can expect between the two?

I will not be doing any overclocking (I am aware of the excellent OC potential of the 1.6, especially with DDR RAM...)

I tried to look for a review comparing the 1.6 and 2.0 Northwood (using www.neoseeker.com), but couldn't find any.

I'm guessing that I won't be able to feel much difference at first, but will the added longevity of the faster CPU be worth it? I want this machine to last a couple of years (I'm currently on a PII 400 with an ASUS P2B board that have lastet me 3 years...)

I'm in no hurry, as I'm waiting for the GeForce4 4200 cards to arrive (a couple of months from now?). When can I expect the price of the 2.0 P4 to drop, and how much?

(This will be used mainly for gaming and surfing the net etc.)

Thanks

~Ronin

 

[dullard]

Intel usually drops prices for two reasons: (A) they released a new chip or (B) three months have passed. Intel won't be releasing anything drasticly new so you need to wait for the three month deadline. These usually occur at the end of January, April, July, and October. Every price drop usually keeps the chips at defined rungs. If by April, Intel has released 1 faster chip, then the 2.0 GHz chip will go down 1 rung to what the 1.9 GHz price currently is (about $222). If by April Intel releases 2 faster chips, the 2.0 GHz chip will drop two rungs to what the 1.8 GHz is currently at (about $168).

The 2.0 GHz Northwood is about 25% faster than the 1.6 GHz Northwood. Since we are comparing two chips of the same architecture, you just need to divide their frequencies and you will get a very accurate comparison. (If you compare two chips of different architecture then that math would fail miserably in most cases). A Northwood chip is roughly 10% faster than an equivalent regular P4 chip, thus 25% + 10% = 35% faster than the regular 1.6 GHz P4. However this 10% is an approximate average boost since the architecture has changed.

I think in late April there will be little price difference between the 2.0 GHz Northwood and the 1.6 GHz Northwood (maybe $50?), so I'd definately get the 2.0 GHz since you aren't going to overclock.

 

[Robor]

I know you said you didn't want to overclock but I'd like to ask why? My 1.6a Northwood ($148 from NewEgg) and Asus P4B266-C ($117 from NewEgg) are running stable at 2.2Ghz. Yes, I had to crank the voltage up to 1.65 to keep it stable but at 2.1Ghz I was running stable at default voltage. Why pay extra $$$ when you can get a faster (increased bus speed) for less? Just something to consider.

 

[dullard]

As a general rule, processor speeds increase by 4% per month. Programmers try to match this by making programs 4% slower per month (adding complexity and detail slows it down) Thus a 25% boost will last you roughly 6 months longer.

 

[Ronin13]

I'm not going to OC due to a couple of reasons.

First of all I haven't any real experience with this (have only experimentet with OC'ing my GeForce2 GTS), and thus I don't feel confident doing this (I know: I could learn...)

Second, I want this machine to last some years, and as I understand it, you risk the chance of reducing the lifespan of your hardware when you OC?

Third, I want a fairly quiet PC and therefore won't fill it with extra fans to take care of the extra heat from the OC'ed parts.

(Won't a 1.6 OC'ed to 2.0 run hotter than a non OC'ed 2.0?)

~Ronin

PS: Dullard, thanks for your input

 

[FishTankX]

Noteverclocked parts at the same frequency and the same voltage have the same heat output as they're non overclocked counterparts. I would get a 1.6GHZ Northwood and overclock to 2GHZ or so because all intel is doing right now is taking the 2.0GHZ northwoods and remarking them as 1.6GHZ chips to my knowledge. There's not nuff demand for the 2.0GHZ chips so they just mark them down.

If you just get the Asus P4T-E and a 1.6A then set the RAMBUS multiplier to 3X and pump the bus up to 133 you likley won't have to touch anything to get it stable.

 

[TheGreenGoblin]

Ronin , most people understandably get worried when they hear the word " overclock " but it really isnt that accurate, especially in the case of the 1.6A's it seems.

In all likelihood , most of the chips being sold as 1.6a's could easily have been labeled as 2Ghz chips or higher.

From what I've read the !.6's seem to do at least 2 Ghz with default voltage and the retail fan which is as easy an o/c as you can ever hope to find.

Ronin , as you've seen the price gap between the lower clocked Intel cpu's and the latest and greatest is huge ; Definitely not worth the money .

Doesn't the though of getting that performance with NONE of the cost and no-ill effects at all seem tempting ? Like Fishtankx said , it would simply require changing one or 2 bios settings , if you go ahead and get the 1.6A and clock it to 2ghz with no trouble which it seems you're almost guaranteed to do , you'll look back and think yourself a fool for even considering spending the dough on the 2Ghz. Up here in Canada , the difference between the 1.6A and the 2.2 is about 850 $$$$ . If i had the cash I'd get myself a p4 system right now

 

[Ronin13]

Couple of OC questions:

Is everybody in agreement that a 1.6 Northwood OC'ed to 2.0 will run just as cool, be just as stable and last as long as a non-OC'ed 2.0 Northwood?

When doing the actual OC, I can't just plug in a 1.6 and tell my mobo that it's a 2.0, can I?

I have to change the multiplier on the RAM, and thus increasing the FSB, right? (3x133 vs 4x100?)

As I understand it, this will influence at what speed the rest of my components run - maybe giving me a speed increase here as well, but also risking incompabilities and extra stress on these components?

(Keep in mind that I want to go with RDRAM please...)

~Ronin

Bonus question: I'm going to go with two sticks of 256MB PC800 RDRAM from either Kingston or Samsung. Which should I choose, and why?

 

[ToBeMe]

<< all intel is doing right now is taking the 2.0GHZ northwoods and remarking them as 1.6GHZ chips to my knowledge. There's not nuff demand for the 2.0GHZ chips so they just mark them down. >>


Have any proof to back that up???? Dell has stated that the 2.0 P4 systems are their hottest sellers right now so I doubt demand is that far off on any but perhaps the 2.2's because of the huge price difference as of now although I've seen/heard about a lot of people running the 2.2's including myself. I suppose it is possible, but, I'd just like to see some link saying this.........I have my doubts though, because I know of several people whom can get to 2.7 with their 2.0's but I see few whom can get to even 2.4 with their 1.6 at any voltage. So, if this were true, the "remarked" 1.6's should O/C as high as the 2.0's..........but most aren't.

 

[tornadobox]

<< When doing the actual OC, I can't just plug in a 1.6 and tell my mobo that it's a 2.0, can I?

I have to change the multiplier on the RAM, and thus increasing the FSB, right? (3x133 vs 4x100?) >>


not sure i quite understand this question, since RAM doesn't have a multiplier...but anyhow...

...unfortunately you cannot change the multiplier of the Pentium 4 CPU, so the only way to overclock is through FSB (ie: 16x100 = 1600MHz, 16x133 = 2128MHz...the 16 which is the multiplier has to stay the same).

 

[Ronin13]

Hi ToBeMe

I see that you have Samsung RDRAM. Do you know how this compares to Kingston RAM (with the same spec's)? Or is it basically the same?

Do you have any thoughts on my other questions?

~Ronin

 

[Ronin13]

<< not sure i quite understand this question, since RAM doesn't have a multiplier...but anyhow... >>



Heh, I thought I had something wrong there... but what is this here about then:

<< set the RAMBUS multiplier to 3X and pump the bus up to 133 >>

? (from FishTankX's post)

Any thoughts on the increased FSB's influence on the rest of the system?

~Ronin

 

[ToBeMe]

<< Hi ToBeMe

I see that you have Samsung RDRAM. Do you know how this compares to Kingston RAM (with the same spec's)? Or is it basically the same?

Do you have any thoughts on my other questions?

~Ronin >>


IMHO Samsung is one of the best as far as RD goes.........it's all I ever use in my i850's and some are O/C'ed quite a bit!

Persoanlly, I would go for the 2.0 especially if you're not intending upon O/C'ing right away. Both are fine, but, with the 2.0 at stock you would be a bit more "future proof" or at least as much so has can be in this technology. I agree the 1.6's are simply amazing chips no matter if "some" are remarked 2.0's or whatever, but, for none O/C'ing, I'd still go for the 2.0.

The P4T-E will be a great board and most are rock stable and easy to set-up. I had one along with a TH7II-RAID and opted to keep the TH7II for my personal use because of the greater O/C'ing ability of the TH7II but both are very nice, stable solutions! With the card you've chosen to purchase and a 2.0, I'd say you will have a very nice system at stock speeds/voltages across the board, and, a nice quiet one as well!

Good Luck!

 

[tornadobox]

<< Heh, I thought I had something wrong there... but what is this here about then: set the RAMBUS multiplier to 3X and pump the bus up to 133? (from FishTankX's post) >>


perhaps he was talking about the divider settings, you can set the CPU FSB different from the RAM FSB through divider settings (ie: 1:1 or 4:3)

 

[BFG10K]

I will not be doing any overclocking

Then you should get the 2.0A GHz processor because even if you don't overclock it'll still be quite fast. I don't buy hardware on the grounds of how well it might overclock and that is precisely why I am getting the 2.0A GHz variant.