Northeast Loses 40% of House Seats

[Jhhnn]

Or you could just support greater federalism, stop trying to decree everything from DC and do whatever the fuck you want in your state leaving the rest of us alone. But for your side getting to impress your enlightened views on everyone is the fun part, eh?

Uhh-wah-uhh-wah-uhh-wah.

Or just support balkanization. Or fantasy.

"Everything"? Really?

That's why you can get 20 years in Oklahoma for something perfectly legal in Colorado- manufacture of hashish. Or why the age of consent varies, as do requirements for voting, getting married, probate, usury, & maybe just a few other teensy things that you might not have considered. Death penalty. Taxes. Little things, really.

Or maybe, like most right wing rhetoric, what you offered was not intended to be a factual statement but rather an affirmation of belief in something or another.

 

[who?]

Every state always has two senators so if the more populous states try to screw over the lesser ones it can be stopped.

 

[glenn1]

Uhh-wah-uhh-wah-uhh-wah.

Or just support balkanization. Or fantasy.

"Everything"? Really?

That's why you can get 20 years in Oklahoma for something perfectly legal in Colorado- manufacture of hashish. Or why the age of consent varies, as do requirements for voting, getting married, probate, usury, & maybe just a few other teensy things that you might not have considered. Death penalty. Taxes. Little things, really.

Or maybe, like most right wing rhetoric, what you offered was not intended to be a factual statement but rather an affirmation of belief in something or another.

Marijuana is still illegal at the federal level. Federal age of consent is sixteen. Voting rights are circumscribed by many constitutional amendments and in many cases states must get pre-clearance from the feds based on 1964 Voting Rights Act, not to mention the pushback from Justice over Voter ID and other state perogatives. State laws over marriage are subject to federal judicial review, see the anti-miscegnation and anti-gay marriage laws struck down recently and conversely the Defense of Marriage Act before that. State probate law can be superceded by federal courts. Death penalty has been allowed, disallowed, or partially proscribed in certain circumstances by SCOTUS for decades on often arbitrary, capricious, and conflicting reasoning. State taxes are a fraction of federal taxes anyway so it's not a huge deal if one state pays 6% vs. 7% in another, and besides federal taxes give a credit for state taxes paid actually incentivizing them to have higher state rates.

Plus let's not forget the other myriad of things decreed from the capital; minimum wage, Obamacare insurance mandate, abortion, regulatory policy for basically every sector of the economy, etc etc etc etc etc......................................9999999 repeating = 1.

 

[Jhhnn]

Every state always has two senators so if the more populous states try to screw over the lesser ones it can be stopped.

True, as far as it goes. It was a sop to state power structures even then. While corporations weren't yet people, states were.

Back then, the greatest population disparity between states was ~10:1, Virginia or New York vs Delaware.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1790_United_States_Census

Today, it's ~66:1, California vs Wyoming.

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population

Republicans exploit that quite ruthlessly in representing less populous more agrarian states. I'm not really convinced that the Wyoming Senators should have equal say with California Senators when it comes to something like appointments to the Federal Judiciary or Cabinet level appointments. They do, of course, which is why we're as backward as we are.

 

[Jhhnn]

Marijuana is still illegal at the federal level. Federal age of consent is sixteen. Voting rights are circumscribed by many constitutional amendments and in many cases states must get pre-clearance from the feds based on 1964 Voting Rights Act, not to mention the pushback from Justice over Voter ID and other state perogatives. State laws over marriage are subject to federal judicial review, see the anti-miscegnation and anti-gay marriage laws struck down recently and conversely the Defense of Marriage Act before that. State probate law can be superceded by federal courts. Death penalty has been allowed, disallowed, or partially proscribed in certain circumstances by SCOTUS for decades on often arbitrary, capricious, and conflicting reasoning. State taxes are a fraction of federal taxes anyway so it's not a huge deal if one state pays 6% vs. 7% in another, and besides federal taxes give a credit for state taxes paid actually incentivizing them to have higher state rates.

Plus let's not forget the other myriad of things decreed from the capital; minimum wage, Obamacare insurance mandate, abortion, regulatory policy for basically every sector of the economy, etc etc etc etc etc......................................9999999 repeating = 1.

Keep dancing. It's kinda cute. "Everything!" is pure bullshit. Yeh, I know, federal law freed the slaves, let women & minorities vote, restricted ownership of certain firearms & a few other things that have led to very deep resentments among conservatives who never seem to be able to get over themselves.

Oh, and Federal taxes are not higher for Mitt's 47%, remember? Hell, you might have paid a higher federal tax rate than he did.

 

[her209]

Here are some nice interactive graphs

Population Change by Decade, 1910-2010
http://www.census.gov/dataviz/visualizations/049/

Gaining and Losing Shares: Population Distribution by Region, 1790 to 2010
http://www.census.gov/dataviz/visualizations/006/

By the Grid: Population Shift to the West and South
http://www.census.gov/dataviz/visualizations/024/

 

[marincounty]

First half of that time period has something notable about it.

The Democrat super majority is something it turned towards recently, the past two decades. I attest that the only reason California is not losing population is due to its immigrants.
Americans ARE fleeing it, especially when the impact of this drought hits.

The Democrat super majority is something the state turned to recently, after the obstructionism of the Republicans and the utter disaster of the last Republican Governor.
Residents got tired of the obstruction and voted in a reasonable Democratic Governor.
Taxes went up a little, spending went down a little and the economy is in much better shape, no thanks to any republican.
Americans are not fleeing California, right wingers and non-hackers are leaving California.
They are being replaced by Mexicans and doers that thrive in the dynamic California economy.
The drought is mostly affecting agriculture, which is the Republican area of the state.
The liberal areas of San Francisco and Silicon Valley are rolling right now.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Ehh, old people/reitrees move south because they want to be in arizona or florida for the horrible hot weather.

Factories closed and moved to China & India, NE had big coal and contributed a lot to Iron industries, both of which have severely downsized ...


People leave because jobs dried up and because of climate. know very few poeple who moved one way or another to save money on taxes alone.

 

[Fern]

Ehh, old people/reitrees move south because they want to be in arizona or florida for the horrible hot weather.

Factories closed and moved to China & India, NE had big coal and contributed a lot to Iron industries, both of which have severely downsized ...


People leave because jobs dried up and because of climate. know very few poeple who moved one way or another to save money on taxes alone.

I've actually known a few over the years. And I suspect far more 'officially' move but are just scamming the system. E.g., I'm in NC and we have a fairly high tax rate (it was 7.75% until just recently). While we are a Summer tourist destination it gets quite cold here in mountains during Winter time. I.e., tourists aren't here. However I've seen any number of cars driving around here in Winter with FL tags. I.e., they actually live here but claim to be FL residents to avoid income tax. I'm not sure how they are counted in the census.

But no/low income taxes are far more influential in peoples' decision about where to move. Once people have already decided to move the no/low income tax rate definitely comes into play. E.g., if you live up North and are going to retire down South FL and TN get a lot of hard looks as they have no income tax. So no, these people aren't moving because of no/low income tax, but rather it's a strong factor in their decision of where to move to.

Fern

 

[werepossum]

I've actually known a few over the years. And I suspect far more 'officially' move but are just scamming the system. E.g., I'm in NC and we have a fairly high tax rate (it was 7.75% until just recently). While we are a Summer tourist destination it gets quite cold here in mountains during Winter time. I.e., tourists aren't here. However I've seen any number of cars driving around here in Winter with FL tags. I.e., they actually live here but claim to be FL residents to avoid income tax. I'm not sure how they are counted in the census.

But no/low income taxes are far more influential in peoples' decision about where to move. Once people have already decided to move the no/low income tax rate definitely comes into play. E.g., if you live up North and are going to retire down South FL and TN get a lot of hard looks as they have no income tax. So no, these people aren't moving because of no/low income tax, but rather it's a strong factor in their decision of where to move to.

Fern

Tennessee has a LOT of Yankees who moved down here specifically for the high cost of living, especially from New Jersey. Guy who bought my uncle's house said when he sold his house, his taxes had gone up to the point that they exceeded his house payment. It's actually a pretty sweet system - work in a high cost/high income area like New Jersey, then sell your house and move to the South or Midwest. Suddenly you feel rich even though your only income is Social Security and a 401K or pension.

 

[boomerang]

However I've seen any number of cars driving around here in Winter with FL tags. I.e., they actually live here but claim to be FL residents to avoid income tax.

Florida does not have a 'six month and a day' law. We're contemplating a 'move' to Florida ourselves. Why should we pay more than we have to? There is no good reason I can think of at this time.

There is research to be done. Homesteading in Florida will not reduce our property taxes down there enough to offset the increase in Michigan. But I will not have to pay taxes on my pension or IRA disbursements. Sales tax is the same. Auto tags are less. I have a gut feeling that auto insurance will be the make or break. Michigan has the highest auto insurance rates in the nation. It remains to be seen what our rates will be in Florida. It's going to take some research as I said. What dollar amount will make it worthwhile is what will drive the final decision but as I told my wife, it's going to be a one time deal. We're not going to willy-nilly swap back to our primary residence being in Michigan again. I should also say that we will eventually only have one residence and it will be in Florida. This would just be accelerating an eventuality.

Obviously, Florida has some requirements to prove residency. We would have to register at least one car down there and have Florida plates, but we also would have to have Florida drivers licenses.

 

[boomerang]

Suddenly you feel rich even though your only income is Social Security and a 401K or pension.

For some seniors it's the difference between a meager existence and a comfortable retirement. Being house poor in a state with profligate spending with no end in sight dictates the move. People that are able to be mobile will be mobile if it benefits them. That was where the thread started. It changes the political landscape of the nation. If the political landscape of a state drives people and businesses away, it's up to that state to change their ways before it's too late. But the voters still have a choice and they don't have to change. If they don't, those that can get, will get while the getting is good.

http://dailysignal.com/2014/10/01/shumlin-loses-key-spinmeister-bad-news-mounts-vermont/

 

[Jhhnn]

For some seniors it's the difference between a meager existence and a comfortable retirement. Being house poor in a state with profligate spending with no end in sight dictates the move. People that are able to be mobile will be mobile if it benefits them. That was where the thread started. It changes the political landscape of the nation. If the political landscape of a state drives people and businesses away, it's up to that state to change their ways before it's too late. But the voters still have a choice and they don't have to change. If they don't, those that can get, will get while the getting is good.

http://dailysignal.com/2014/10/01/shumlin-loses-key-spinmeister-bad-news-mounts-vermont/

Remarkable anti-tax rant. The notion that taxes are the prime mover wrt a place to retire is absurd. If it were, then Wyoming, S Dakota, Alabama, Louisiana & other truly low tax states would be popular destinations. They're not. Taxes are just one of many considerations, family often chief among them. There are a lot of thresholds to cross moving to a distant part of the country, with more affluent seniors obviously being better able.

Many times, it's not an issue of being house poor, but house rich. Here in CO, Denver seniors can often cash in their equity & move 100 miles south to Pueblo, where the weather is considerably milder & real estate prices much lower. It's not like they need four bedrooms anymore. They end up with no mortgage & some play money, like for a new boat to use on the nearby Reservoir where they go fishing already. Few have the affluence to maintain residences in both CO & AZ, to be snowbirds.

 

[fskimospy]

I've actually known a few over the years. And I suspect far more 'officially' move but are just scamming the system. E.g., I'm in NC and we have a fairly high tax rate (it was 7.75% until just recently). While we are a Summer tourist destination it gets quite cold here in mountains during Winter time. I.e., tourists aren't here. However I've seen any number of cars driving around here in Winter with FL tags. I.e., they actually live here but claim to be FL residents to avoid income tax. I'm not sure how they are counted in the census.

But no/low income taxes are far more influential in peoples' decision about where to move. Once people have already decided to move the no/low income tax rate definitely comes into play. E.g., if you live up North and are going to retire down South FL and TN get a lot of hard looks as they have no income tax. So no, these people aren't moving because of no/low income tax, but rather it's a strong factor in their decision of where to move to.

Fern

The literature I've read has shown that tax rates play a pretty small role in moving decisions.

http://ftp.iza.org/dp2374.pdf
http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/economics/documents/gsef/OCE-Migration-Study.pdf

 

[glenn1]

The literature I've read has shown that tax rates play a pretty small role in moving decisions.

http://ftp.iza.org/dp2374.pdf
http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/economics/documents/gsef/OCE-Migration-Study.pdf

While this may be true, I'd also posit this small role that may be a decisive one including being what made them consider moving in the first place. A lot of those small factors like tax rates, climate, lower cost of living, wanting a fresh start, more sensible house configuration, preference for the predominant politics of the old/new location, etc. may well overcome the big 2-3 factors against moving (family proximity, inertia, fear of unknown). Tax rates may well be the tiebreaker for many people deciding to move.

 

[Scarpozzi]

The more obvious reasons people move are cost of living and available jobs. The jobs in the north, in many industries are bound by a unionized workforce. That's stopped many companies from expanding operations because the labor force simply costs more.

Combine that with higher taxes and real estate costs, the cost of living starts to take a bigger toll, but you can't simply blame it on JUST taxes alone.

 

[bshole]

Tennessee has a LOT of Yankees who moved down here specifically for the high cost of living, especially from New Jersey. Guy who bought my uncle's house said when he sold his house, his taxes had gone up to the point that they exceeded his house payment. It's actually a pretty sweet system - work in a high cost/high income area like New Jersey, then sell your house and move to the South or Midwest. Suddenly you feel rich even though your only income is Social Security and a 401K or pension.

The trade-off of course is that you have to live in Tennesse..... shudder......

 

[glenn1]

The trade-off of course is that you have to live in Tennesse..... shudder......

<shrug> Depending on your preferences it's not horrible. Nashville is a nice town albeit very whitebread and boring. If you're the type who would rather eat at a chain restaurant like Applebee's rather than a nice ethnic place, or would rather watch TV than see an opera or Cirque du Solei it would work for you. Ditto places like Charlotte, Indianapolis, etc.)

 

[JTsyo]

Is there an information on the age of those that move? Are the majority those that have retired and are moving to the next phase in their life? Weather also seems to play a role, after each harsh winter, there seems to be a small exodus.

 

[boomerang]

Weather also seems to play a role, after each harsh winter, there seems to be a small exodus.

I've reached an age where I see no earthly need to endure harsh winters. I've never minded the cold, it's the snow I have a dislike for. I don't like walking in it, I don't care to drive in it, I don't like tracking it into my car, I just don't like it. And it's not just the snow, it's the salt they use attempting to keep the roads drivable. It ends up everywhere I don't want it. I also don't like living in a state for which winter can mean three to four months of little sun. Day after day after day of gray overcast skies doesn't do much for me.

So a climate that is much warmer with fairly consistent weather year round suddenly became very appealing. In a state I had never thought I'd end up in too. When you put together the entire package, which includes affordable housing and low taxes, a state which is actively trying to attract residents instead of driving them away with policies rooted in failure, it becomes a no-brainer. My life will be lived out in a state that actually wants me there and proves it by understanding that my pockets are not sources of unlimited funds ripe for the taking.

There needs to be a balance. When the takers outnumber the makers it's time to get out of Dodge.

 

[Atreus21]

High taxes, high cost of living, shitty weather, natural displacement of immigrant families from 80 years ago, immigration coming across our southern border vs through the east coast. There are many reasons why the NE is dwindling in population relative to the other parts of the country.

Normally, I'd be inclined to agree.

But come down here for a summer before you talk about shitty weather in the NE. We have two seasons: Hot and Cold.

 

[Atreus21]

Oh, I don't know. As the country degenerates into joblessness and poverty, we will start to see people fleeing to Mexico and Canada for a better life. The CBDs will then have a chance to sweep the nation and rename the country Pig Heaven and the anthem to 'Free at Last to Wallow in Our Own Shit'.

It's going to be awesome.

 

[Jhhnn]

I've reached an age where I see no earthly need to endure harsh winters. I've never minded the cold, it's the snow I have a dislike for. I don't like walking in it, I don't care to drive in it, I don't like tracking it into my car, I just don't like it. And it's not just the snow, it's the salt they use attempting to keep the roads drivable. It ends up everywhere I don't want it. I also don't like living in a state for which winter can mean three to four months of little sun. Day after day after day of gray overcast skies doesn't do much for me.

So a climate that is much warmer with fairly consistent weather year round suddenly became very appealing. In a state I had never thought I'd end up in too. When you put together the entire package, which includes affordable housing and low taxes, a state which is actively trying to attract residents instead of driving them away with policies rooted in failure, it becomes a no-brainer. My life will be lived out in a state that actually wants me there and proves it by understanding that my pockets are not sources of unlimited funds ripe for the taking.

There needs to be a balance. When the takers outnumber the makers it's time to get out of Dodge.

The Takers, the people at the tippy-top of the economic ladder, can't possibly be outnumbered by the rest of us.

 

[werepossum]

The trade-off of course is that you have to live in Tennesse..... shudder......

Our retiree transplants are generally very happy to find out that their neighbors actually talk to them, watch out for them, and are good people. Granted, many of the younger transplants are highly unhappy, demanding all the services, wages, and entitlements that drove them out of their previous home state.

We don't call that latter group Yankees, we call 'em idiots.