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North Korea vowed today to attack the United States if it imposed a blockade

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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,880
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Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
Ok, CkG

Let's do this with one caveat. Your children must live in Seoul until this is resolved.
You pay for it and they are there. ;)

The whole point is that KJI has been "negotiating" for years and we seem to keep backpedaling. Don't kid yourself into thinking that others aren't watching our moves and plotting their own blackmail schemes. If you want US aid then you will get it under our preset conditions - not "on the fly" negotiations.

CkG

Things are not always as they seem. Other countries are indeed watching, and negotiations are at once never and always on the fly as you say. If you give ultimatums you know will keep the other side away from the table you guarantee diplomatic failure. This is part of the means to prevent talks in the Israel/Palestinian conflicts. You do x then we will talk, knowing full will x isn't going to happen before talks. Go in knowing what you want, and what is acceptable. Talks are dynamic.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,963
3,752
126
Don't confuse people here anymore than necessary, a lot have trouble enough understanding how the idea of a preemptive strike is wrong, let alone that the idea is a two-way street.
----------------------------------------------------------------
:D What's a two way street?
---------------

I give my kids ten seconds and then I kill them. I used to like being a parent.

Life is beautiful when everything is simple and black and white.

Did you know you are simple, Caddy?
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
N Korea is why small countries need and will acquire nuclear weapons.
If fellow governments respected the soverneignty of other nations smaller ones would not need to have Pit Bull Terriers and Rottenwhilers protecting themselves... Seems the only way for the lessor to secure their future. Sad... and then when all the folks are armed with thier MAD devices we'll be at Cold War Status Quo... and at defcon 2 all the time. Launch on suspected launch will be the cry... and a hundred and fifty million will die...

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Don't confuse people here anymore than necessary, a lot have trouble enough understanding how the idea of a preemptive strike is wrong, let alone that the idea is a two-way street.
----------------------------------------------------------------
:D What's a two way street?
---------------

I give my kids ten seconds and then I kill them. I used to like being a parent.

Life is beautiful when everything is simple and black and white.

Did you know you are simple, Caddy?
No, I am not "simple". My kids won't turn out to be little brats (like KJI) because they respect authority. They will know right from wrong, and will know that decisions they make may have consequences.

KJI - has been to the table - wasn't there a "agreement" back in the Clinton days in regards to the NK's Nuclear desire? Oh yeah -thats right, we gotta let them just break their end but yet still give more on our end.

You people are nuts! - if we keep backpedalling too far, we'll find ourselves a spineless, irrelavant turd- like the UN is(or could be considered).

CkG
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,963
3,752
126
Caddy, watch out for Jesus. He said something about setting kids against their parents with a sword, or something, didn't he. And the folks were all authoritarian types back then.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
I wish Double U 's parents had taught him about consequences.... some of which could occur if we block head cad e Korea.;)
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,435
84
91
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
N Korea is why small countries need and will acquire nuclear weapons.

Exactly, nukes can easily make up for the lack of leadership by a crazy, unstable leader who has raped NK.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,880
4,212
126
CkG

First, one of the greatest problems others have with the people of the us is the attitude expressed by your analogy between your children and other countries. Your children are yours morally. They answer to you and you are accountable for your care of them. That is your right as a parent. The US is not the parent of the world. They owe you nothing. Now if you go with the attitude that they do, that screws things nicely.

Don't worry about national ego. Let the diplomats work at this. You can always force the destruction of the Korean peninsula and Japan and others later if that is what you like.

As long as both sides are talking, no one is shooting. That ought to be the goal.
 

ConclamoLudus

Senior member
Jan 16, 2003
572
0
0
If we strike pre-emptively small countries with nukes will see us as a threat and will then strike pre-emptively.

If we say "OK NK" we'd be glad to help you regardless, than every small country will get nukes and hold us at gun point for whatever they want.

Bush has walked into another "damned if you do, damned if you don't". I just hope he gets some back-up on this one.

It should be food for nukes. Even trade. And maybe an agreement that once they are entirely disarmed we will keep sending them food & aid. The problem is KJI is missing a couple of screws.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: rudder
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
N Korea is why small countries need and will acquire nuclear weapons.

Exactly, nukes can easily make up for the lack of leadership by a crazy, unstable leader who has raped NK.
Uncle England, Aunt Spain and Us the master Parent of the world should all sit down at the UN Security Counsel and hash this out. Grounding NK is not a good idea. They are likely to act out of their Child Ego State To our Critical Parent Ego State and become a delinquent that no reformitory can house... We all need to live in our Adult Ego State and rationally discuss the notion of soverein and human rights and all those Adult issues... we, as Kennedy said, have the means to feed the world or destroy it... why not feed it...

 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,880
4,212
126
Originally posted by: ConclamoLudus
If we strike pre-emptively small countries with nukes will see us as a threat and will then strike pre-emptively.

If we say "OK NK" we'd be glad to help you regardless, than every small country will get nukes and hold us at gun point for whatever they want.

Bush has walked into another "damned if you do, damned if you don't". I just hope he gets some back-up on this one.

It should be food for nukes. Even trade. And maybe an agreement that once they are entirely disarmed we will keep sending them food & aid. The problem is KJI is missing a couple of screws.


First, we need to define goals. What do we realistically want to accomplish?

Second, stop bullying. Part of what is going on is the leadership of NK feels that the US means to attack them regardless of whatever they say or do. Maybe we should cut out the Axis of Evil crap.

Third, keep them talking. Perhaps the Chinese could participate with the US in these talks. Someone who does not threaten as much. Might diffuse things.

Fourth- have to go get my boy from day care, be back later :D
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
CkG

First, one of the greatest problems others have with the people of the us is the attitude expressed by your analogy between your children and other countries. Your children are yours morally. They answer to you and you are accountable for your care of them. That is your right as a parent. The US is not the parent of the world. They owe you nothing. Now if you go with the attitude that they do, that screws things nicely.

Don't worry about national ego. Let the diplomats work at this. You can always force the destruction of the Korean peninsula and Japan and others later if that is what you like.

As long as both sides are talking, no one is shooting. That ought to be the goal.
You seem to miss the fact that all these countries turn to us for help and expect it all the time -so yes we are a "parent figure" in a sense.

I never said we should go in shooting
But I want to see our "diplomats" take a firm stand on this issue and not play KJI's little bitch like the UN was to XXX(Some Angry Dictator DumbAss Maniac on the other side of the globe). There is no ego involved - they want our help -they follow our rules, same should(IMO) go for any other country with it's hand out stretched looking for American aid.

CkG
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,963
3,752
126
they want our help -they follow our rules, same should(IMO) go for any other country with it's hand out stretched looking for American aid.
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Who was it preached about walking an extra mine, giving more than expected and all that stuff?
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
they want our help -they follow our rules, same should(IMO) go for any other country with it's hand out stretched looking for American aid.
--------------
Who was it preached about walking an extra mine, giving more than expected and all that stuff?
Princess Di talked alot about mines and giving more of that expected stuff.

;)
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
they want our help -they follow our rules, same should(IMO) go for any other country with it's hand out stretched looking for American aid.
--------------
Who was it preached about walking an extra mine, giving more than expected and all that stuff?
There is a difference between "needy" and "demanding" ;)

CkG
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,963
3,752
126
Damn, walking an extra mile, not mine. You don't walk them, you walk on them.

-----------------------------

There is a difference between "needy" and "demanding
----------------------------
Are you saying that KJI is the way he is because he's wearing etech's underware, I mean because he's not needy. Isn't he needy? Can you provide a link that says KJI's country isn't needy. I thought course one to eight of the eight course banquets there were grass and tree bark.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Damn, walking an extra mile, not mine. You don't walk them, you walk on them.

-----------------------------

There is a difference between "needy" and "demanding
----------------------------
Are you saying that KJI is the way he is because he's wearing etech's underware, I mean because he's not needy. Isn't he needy? Can you provide a link that says KJI's country isn't needy. I thought course one to eight of the eight course banquets there were grass and tree bark.
I sure will once you prove that he isn't "demanding" ;)

In other words - it aint gonna happen:p

KJI is playing games with his population as the pawns. He needs to be stopped.

CkG
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Damn, walking an extra mile, not mine. You don't walk them, you walk on them.

-----------------------------

There is a difference between "needy" and "demanding
----------------------------
Are you saying that KJI is the way he is because he's wearing etech's underware, I mean because he's not needy. Isn't he needy? Can you provide a link that says KJI's country isn't needy. I thought course one to eight of the eight course banquets there were grass and tree bark.
Dog woods and Azalia's are good tasting I've heard. Kim is trying to feed a hungry nation. If the people rise up it may be against the south instead of him... crafty leaders have a way of diverting attention away from them toward the enemy... and prosperity.

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: HJD1
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Damn, walking an extra mile, not mine. You don't walk them, you walk on them.

-----------------------------

There is a difference between "needy" and "demanding
----------------------------
Are you saying that KJI is the way he is because he's wearing etech's underware, I mean because he's not needy. Isn't he needy? Can you provide a link that says KJI's country isn't needy. I thought course one to eight of the eight course banquets there were grass and tree bark.
Dog woods and Azalia's are good tasting I've heard. Kim is trying to feed a hungry nation. If the people rise up it may be against the south instead of him... crafty leaders have a way of diverting attention away from them toward the enemy... and prosperity.
Trying to feed his nation by spending money on Nukes :p BUahahahah!


CkG
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: HJD1
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Damn, walking an extra mile, not mine. You don't walk them, you walk on them.

-----------------------------

There is a difference between "needy" and "demanding
----------------------------
Are you saying that KJI is the way he is because he's wearing etech's underware, I mean because he's not needy. Isn't he needy? Can you provide a link that says KJI's country isn't needy. I thought course one to eight of the eight course banquets there were grass and tree bark.
Dog woods and Azalia's are good tasting I've heard. Kim is trying to feed a hungry nation. If the people rise up it may be against the south instead of him... crafty leaders have a way of diverting attention away from them toward the enemy... and prosperity.
Trying to feed his nation by spending money on Nukes :p BUahahahah!


CkG
You look but do you see?
The nukes are the stick to make him less a push over if push comes to shove. His people starve but, the cost of the nukes would feed but a day... while threaten for years... the solution to the squeeky wheel is food and lots of it, from all the folks who want him to do away with the squeaky and pesky nukes.

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: HJD1
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: HJD1
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Damn, walking an extra mile, not mine. You don't walk them, you walk on them.

-----------------------------

There is a difference between "needy" and "demanding
----------------------------
Are you saying that KJI is the way he is because he's wearing etech's underware, I mean because he's not needy. Isn't he needy? Can you provide a link that says KJI's country isn't needy. I thought course one to eight of the eight course banquets there were grass and tree bark.
Dog woods and Azalia's are good tasting I've heard. Kim is trying to feed a hungry nation. If the people rise up it may be against the south instead of him... crafty leaders have a way of diverting attention away from them toward the enemy... and prosperity.
Trying to feed his nation by spending money on Nukes :p BUahahahah!


CkG
You look but do you see?
The nukes are the stick to make him less a push over if push comes to shove. His people starve but, the cost of the nukes would feed but a day... while threaten for years... the solution to the squeeky wheel is food and lots of it, from all the folks who want him to do away with the squeaky and pesky nukes.
Right, and we wouldn't give him and his people food if he didn't go Nuclear? Who is looking but not seeing?

CkG
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: HJD1
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: HJD1
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Damn, walking an extra mile, not mine. You don't walk them, you walk on them.

-----------------------------

There is a difference between "needy" and "demanding
----------------------------
Are you saying that KJI is the way he is because he's wearing etech's underware, I mean because he's not needy. Isn't he needy? Can you provide a link that says KJI's country isn't needy. I thought course one to eight of the eight course banquets there were grass and tree bark.
Dog woods and Azalia's are good tasting I've heard. Kim is trying to feed a hungry nation. If the people rise up it may be against the south instead of him... crafty leaders have a way of diverting attention away from them toward the enemy... and prosperity.
Trying to feed his nation by spending money on Nukes :p BUahahahah!


CkG
You look but do you see?
The nukes are the stick to make him less a push over if push comes to shove. His people starve but, the cost of the nukes would feed but a day... while threaten for years... the solution to the squeeky wheel is food and lots of it, from all the folks who want him to do away with the squeaky and pesky nukes.
Right, and we wouldn't give him and his people food if he didn't go Nuclear? Who is looking but not seeing?

CkG
They were a starving before they pulled the nuke chain... did we offer food? Nope not until they conformed to whatever was demanded... now they say they have nukes... do we offer food? Nope not until they conform to whatever is demanded... Next step ... who knows...
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
They were a starving before they pulled the nuke chain... did we offer food? Nope not until they conformed to whatever was demanded... now they say they have nukes... do we offer food? Nope not until they conform to whatever is demanded... Next step ... who knows...

Japan boosts N Korea food aid
Friday, 6 October, 2000,

South Korea Red Cross Steps Up Aid to North Korea
Mon, 21 Apr 1997
...
Separately, the United Nations World Food Program (WFP) has appealed for $95.5 million for food aid. The United States has pledged $25 million and South Korea $6 million.
...

U.S. AGENCY FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT
June 7, 2002
Washington, DC -- The U.S. Agency for International Development announces an additional contribution of 100,000 metric tons of food aid from the United States to North Korea. This contribution follows a review of U.S. Government humanitarian food aid activities in North Korea and a decision by the United States to set a baseline for food contributions to North Korea at 155,000 metric tons this calendar year. With the new contribution of 100,000 metric tons, we will have fulfilled our baseline donation.

Funding for the 100,000 metric tons will come from the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Section 416(b) food aid program, and the commodities will be allocated to the World Food Program's emergency feeding operations. This contribution will help to remedy an anticipated break in July of WFP's food aid pipeline for North Korea. Total U.S. food aid to North Korea since 1995 is 1.9 million metric tons, valued at approximately $620 million.

As President Bush emphasized in Seoul, we are prepared to feed people in North Korea, in spite of our ongoing concerns regarding the policies of the DPRK. The United States remains deeply concerned about the restrictions placed on food aid monitoring, the humanitarian community's lack of access to many North Korean counties, and the need for countrywide nutrition surveys according to internationally-accepted standards. We call upon North Korea to significantly expand access and permit improved monitoring for humanitarian programs and to implement an updated countrywide survey this year of children's nutritional status consistent with international standards. Consideration of additional food aid to North Korea will depend on verifiable progress in these areas.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: etech
They were a starving before they pulled the nuke chain... did we offer food? Nope not until they conformed to whatever was demanded... now they say they have nukes... do we offer food? Nope not until they conform to whatever is demanded... Next step ... who knows...

Japan boosts N Korea food aid
Friday, 6 October, 2000,

South Korea Red Cross Steps Up Aid to North Korea
Mon, 21 Apr 1997
...
Separately, the United Nations World Food Program (WFP) has appealed for $95.5 million for food aid. The United States has pledged $25 million and South Korea $6 million.
...

U.S. AGENCY FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT
June 7, 2002
Washington, DC -- The U.S. Agency for International Development announces an additional contribution of 100,000 metric tons of food aid from the United States to North Korea. This contribution follows a review of U.S. Government humanitarian food aid activities in North Korea and a decision by the United States to set a baseline for food contributions to North Korea at 155,000 metric tons this calendar year. With the new contribution of 100,000 metric tons, we will have fulfilled our baseline donation.

Funding for the 100,000 metric tons will come from the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Section 416(b) food aid program, and the commodities will be allocated to the World Food Program's emergency feeding operations. This contribution will help to remedy an anticipated break in July of WFP's food aid pipeline for North Korea. Total U.S. food aid to North Korea since 1995 is 1.9 million metric tons, valued at approximately $620 million.

As President Bush emphasized in Seoul, we are prepared to feed people in North Korea, in spite of our ongoing concerns regarding the policies of the DPRK. The United States remains deeply concerned about the restrictions placed on food aid monitoring, the humanitarian community's lack of access to many North Korean counties, and the need for countrywide nutrition surveys according to internationally-accepted standards. We call upon North Korea to significantly expand access and permit improved monitoring for humanitarian programs and to implement an updated countrywide survey this year of children's nutritional status consistent with international standards. Consideration of additional food aid to North Korea will depend on verifiable progress in these areas.
Yeah. I saw the second one (link) The latest I've seen indicates the '97 agreement with the (UN)... (heard on c-span) has yet to be delivered. There is not enough in all of that to feed them all for over (I think I understood) three months.

I think the nuke issue is one of sovereign issues first and some reup with the south second and the food is to placate the masses and keep them in line for the grander scheme of the first two. Clinton on CNN said something like this... If I understood him the other day...
 

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