North Korea conducts another nuclear test

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: PottedMeat
He's just a little attention whore who's got someone new to fuck with. He's probably looking to get some autographed LeBron shoes or blu-ray discs out of Hillary.

maybe he's actually jealous of obama's shitty gift to gordon brown?

 

[soccerballtux]

Guys NK using the bomb strapped to a missile as an EMP is a much scarier ending than them taking out one city.

Nobody knows the exact calculations (classified) but the conventional wisdom is it would only take a Hiroshima/Nagasaki sized bomb (20KT) detonated somewhere over the east coast to wipe out all our infrastructure over several states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...tion_and_early_history

Nuclear tests fused buried telephone cables in underground nuke tests stateside. This one above messed up Hawaii a bit-- now it would simply take something much weaker to vaporize all the microchips everywhere. NK doesn't have to be able to guide a missile, just get it going at sufficient altitude.

I for one am glad we have a pushover President. I think we can just hope our way through this. If we just hope enough, NK won't bother us. Besides, it gives me warm fuzzies right down here in my tummy to hope this won't be a problem.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Clinton tried talking to them and it didn't work.

Bush tried not talking to them and it didn't work.

The only thing we haven't tried is to smack them upside the head to get their attention.
We really have to think about this and decide if taking a military approach will do more harm than good.

Would it?

Truepaige: The missile defense system is only about 50% effective.

Our BMD system is nowhere close to 50% effective.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Nobody knows the exact calculations (classified) but the conventional wisdom is it would only take a Hiroshima/Nagasaki sized bomb (20KT) detonated somewhere over the east coast to wipe out all our infrastructure over several states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...tion_and_early_history

Nuclear tests fused buried telephone cables in underground nuke tests stateside. This one above messed up Hawaii a bit-- now it would simply take something much weaker to vaporize all the microchips everywhere. NK doesn't have to be able to guide a missile, just get it going at sufficient altitude.

I for one am glad we have a pushover President. I think we can just hope our way through this. If we just hope enough, NK won't bother us. Besides, it gives me warm fuzzies right down here in my tummy to hope this won't be a problem.

EMP information isn't classified at all.

cue the doom and gloom music. Better go put the aluminum foil shielding on the car engine now or get Tom Cruise to give you instructions on how to repair the possible damage.

The defense department manuals on how to prepare electronics for a nuclear attack are pretty clear. It takes a whole hell of a lot more than something like North Korea has to take out infrastructure using EMP alone. And certainly a lot more to take out devices hardened for the event.

The amount of energy required to damage electronics is so great that you would be dead many times over . Too many scifi movies have made the public think you could use a backpack nuke to knock out a state.


I pulled out the manual.
These are the facts published by the DOD.

Format is Distance from ground zero in miles , Peak overpressure, Peak wind in MPH, blast effect
.8 miles , 20psi , 470mph , Reinforced concrete structures are leveled
3.0 miles , 10psi, 290mph, Most factories and commercial buildings collapsed, small wood and brick homes destroyed
4.4 miles , 5psi, 160mph, Lightly constructed buildings destroyed, heavier construction damaged
5.9 miles , 3psi, 95mph, walls of steel frame building blown away, severe damage to homes, kill people in open
11.6 miles , 1psi, 35mph, Damage to structure , people endangered by flying glass and debris


The interesting thing is that as the bomb size increases it doesn't increase the damage range all that much. The above figures are for a 1MT bomb. A 40MT bomb works out to be 2.8 times the miles from ground zero that the listed damage occurs.

So a 40MT bomb would cause damage at a max range of 32.8 miles. That does not take into account terrain.

EMP can occur at the max range plus 11%.

 

[sportage]

Someday every 3rd world country, friend or foe, will have nukes.
We can't stop that.
We should re think the approach, assume all our enemies
will have nukes eventually, and create some new strategy.
A totally different approach.
Maybe a Gort like robot from day the earth stood still,
to police the matter. Something...?
Stamping out fires one by one will never be a successful
resolution. Everyone will have nukes in time.
Possibility even American based anti government organizations.
We need Gort.

 

[theflyingpig]

It will make the world a more interesting place if North Korea gets nukes. I applaud their efforts.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
What is your suggestion?? Do nothing, which is exactly what we have been doing for the past 16+ years??

Yep. Sit on our hands. Seriously. No trade, no war, no nothing (except watch North Korea like a hawk). If South Korea or China want to try various approaches, fine, but the US really has better things to do with our time and energy than try to resolve the North Korea issue.

I will accept allowing rogue nations with nuclear missiles to exist, so long as you support and establish a secure border and missile defense. Otherwise we are vulnerable.

 

[IGBT]

just a matter of months before they start selling packaged nuke weapons on the back door terrorist market.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Clinton tried talking to them and it didn't work.

Bush tried not talking to them and it didn't work.

The only thing we haven't tried is to smack them upside the head to get their attention.
We really have to think about this and decide if taking a military approach will do more harm than good.

Damn right, let's move in, Chuck-Norris style, and "smack them upside the head". Who gives a shit about the nuclear weapons? After all, America's self-appointed role of policing the world has always proved so successful in the past. :disgust:

 

[StageLeft]

Hopefully the larger world will be smart enough to break out of this cycle

Probably not. I've been pointing that out for years because he's been doing it for a long time and the world is continually made a mockery by NK because the world is completely impotent in cutting back his nuclear ambitions except for only short periods of time, while giving him more aid. There's really nothing the world is willing or able to do and so this will go on. Nothing but talk and a few sanctions will come from this recent spectacle.

 

[cliftonite]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Hopefully the larger world will be smart enough to break out of this cycle

Probably not. I've been pointing that out for years because he's been doing it for a long time and the world is continually made a mockery by NK because the world is completely impotent in cutting back his nuclear ambitions except for only short periods of time, while giving him more aid. There's really nothing the world is willing or able to do and so this will go on. Nothing but talk and a few sanctions will come from this recent spectacle.

What can be done? Can you imagine the costs of a war vs NK seeing as how much Iraq is costing us?

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Clinton tried talking to them and it didn't work.

Bush tried not talking to them and it didn't work.

The only thing we haven't tried is to smack them upside the head to get their attention.
We really have to think about this and decide if taking a military approach will do more harm than good.

Would it?

Truepaige: The missile defense system is only about 50% effective.

Our BMD system is nowhere close to 50% effective.

The wink was because our "Star Wars" system kind of stinks. It's better than nothing, but I don't really like the idea of a crap shoot when it comes to saving lives.

Last I heard the best results were specially equipped, high speed, jets with lasers that would destroy the missiles. (Which is more theory than anything, I don't even remember the exact proposal that was from so don't cut my head off guys. )

 

[AFMatt]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Nobody knows the exact calculations (classified) but the conventional wisdom is it would only take a Hiroshima/Nagasaki sized bomb (20KT) detonated somewhere over the east coast to wipe out all our infrastructure over several states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...tion_and_early_history

Nuclear tests fused buried telephone cables in underground nuke tests stateside. This one above messed up Hawaii a bit-- now it would simply take something much weaker to vaporize all the microchips everywhere. NK doesn't have to be able to guide a missile, just get it going at sufficient altitude.

I for one am glad we have a pushover President. I think we can just hope our way through this. If we just hope enough, NK won't bother us. Besides, it gives me warm fuzzies right down here in my tummy to hope this won't be a problem.

EMP information isn't classified at all.

cue the doom and gloom music. Better go put the aluminum foil shielding on the car engine now or get Tom Cruise to give you instructions on how to repair the possible damage.

The defense department manuals on how to prepare electronics for a nuclear attack are pretty clear. It takes a whole hell of a lot more than something like North Korea has to take out infrastructure using EMP alone. And certainly a lot more to take out devices hardened for the event.

The amount of energy required to damage electronics is so great that you would be dead many times over . Too many scifi movies have made the public think you could use a backpack nuke to knock out a state.


I pulled out the manual.
These are the facts published by the DOD.

Format is Distance from ground zero in miles , Peak overpressure, Peak wind in MPH, blast effect
.8 miles , 20psi , 470mph , Reinforced concrete structures are leveled
3.0 miles , 10psi, 290mph, Most factories and commercial buildings collapsed, small wood and brick homes destroyed
4.4 miles , 5psi, 160mph, Lightly constructed buildings destroyed, heavier construction damaged
5.9 miles , 3psi, 95mph, walls of steel frame building blown away, severe damage to homes, kill people in open
11.6 miles , 1psi, 35mph, Damage to structure , people endangered by flying glass and debris


The interesting thing is that as the bomb size increases it doesn't increase the damage range all that much. The above figures are for a 1MT bomb. A 40MT bomb works out to be 2.8 times the miles from ground zero that the listed damage occurs.

So a 40MT bomb would cause damage at a max range of 32.8 miles. That does not take into account terrain.

EMP can occur at the max range plus 11%.

I'm not sure what the blast damage radius you posted has to do with EMP, but the 335kt bomb we use on our ICBMs today puts out more than enough energy to damage most modern electronics. When we did EMP testing in the 60s it was tested on conponents and circuits FAR less sensitive than what we use today, and still did damage at great distances.

 

[Genx87]

So is anybody going to bring this to a head and cutoff food shipments and aid to the country?

Thought not. Well maybe when he dies this will get resolved but I doubt whoever takes over from him will be interested in giving up power.

 

[Toonces]

I felt the tremors here in Japan Sunday night.
Just thought it was another small earthquake...

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: AFMatt

I'm not sure what the blast damage radius you posted has to do with EMP, but the 335kt bomb we use on our ICBMs today puts out more than enough energy to damage most modern electronics. When we did EMP testing in the 60s it was tested on conponents and circuits FAR less sensitive than what we use today, and still did damage at great distances.

The blast damage range is used to calculate in EMP range . The rough estimate takes the blast range and adds 11% to give a estimate of the distance that EMP can occur.

EMP risk also decreases greatly the closer the electronics are to the ground. Things that are less than 20 feet from the ground are usually not effected. The main issue with EMP is where you have things like power lines, or other wires strung through the air. They can act as antennas that receive the EMP energy and distribute it to connected devices. The testing we did for EMP was also for devices in open air, not devices inside objects that can act as a Faraday cage. Things like the metal in cars act as a shield that would carry the EMP voltage around the car, but not into the electronics inside.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: SilentZero
It's the end of the world as we know it...

it very well could be.