North Carolina bans same-sex marriage

[fskimospy]

I was quoting planned parenthood (an organization that liberals basically worhsip). I didnt know quoting liberals counting as making "hilariously wrong statements" about what liberals believe.

And not they think the idea it is wrong to "decide for another woman whether or not she was ready to become a parent" is beyond questioning. But somehow it is perfectly ok to decide whether a man is ready to become a parent.

You quoted a single statement out of many on the issue and tried to turn it into 'what all liberals believe'. Such an argument forms neither the moral or legal basis for liberals' embrace of reproductive choice, which is why it was hilariously wrong to state that.

A woman has a choice as to whether or not to carry a baby to term because a person's sovereignty over their own body is one of the most basic rights we have. If she elects to keep that baby she must provide for it when it enters the world. Similarly, men have agency over their own bodies as well. If they contribute to a baby entering the world they must care for it. Equal rights for all.

So the only way a man can be certain of not becoming a father is abstinence. If only we had more abstinence-only education :hmm: ... oh wait liberals are always saying that is unworkable, because people are going to have sex. Engaging in pre-marital sex is not irresponsibility right?

So really what you are saying is you have no problem with a teenage girl ruining the life of a teenage boy, by forcing him to be responsible for her reproductive choice. :\

It was both of their reproductive choices, and both will be responsible for it. Equal rights for all. I was not referring to having a baby as acting irresponsibly, although (using your logic) conservatives wish to cause more babies that cannot be cared for to enter the world by promoting ineffective sex education. Abandoning your child is irresponsible and I am not inclined to allow men to absolve themselves of their responsibility.

Then again, I don't hate women like you do.

 

[nehalem256]

You quoted a single statement out of many on the issue and tried to turn it into 'what all liberals believe'. Such an argument forms neither the moral or legal basis for liberals' embrace of reproductive choice, which is why it was hilariously wrong to state that.

A woman has a choice as to whether or not to carry a baby to term because a person's sovereignty over their own body is one of the most basic rights we have. If she elects to keep that baby she must provide for it when it enters the world. Similarly, men have agency over their own bodies as well. If they contribute to a baby entering the world they must care for it. Equal rights for all.

You mean like not be required to work, with their bodies, to support women's reproductive choices?

It was both of their reproductive choices, and both will be responsible for it. Equal rights for all.

Except according to liberals consent to sex is not consent to have a baby... at least if you are a woman.

I was not referring to having a baby as acting irresponsibly, although (using your logic) conservatives wish to cause more babies that cannot be cared for to enter the world by promoting ineffective sex education.

I am completely opposed to people having children they cannot afford. They should get an abortion.

Abandoning your child is irresponsible and I am not inclined to allow men to absolve themselves of their responsibility.

Then again, I don't hate women like you do.

So killing the child is not irresponsible. Oh and in many states a woman can abandon her child without the consent or knowledge of the father

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe-haven_law

Expecting women to be responsible for THEIR CHOICES is not hating women. Liberals have said for 40 years having a child is 100% a woman's choice.

 

[fskimospy]

You mean like not be required to work, with their bodies, to support women's reproductive choices?

Except according to liberals consent to sex is not consent to have a baby... at least if you are a woman.

They are working to support their own reproductive choices. What people also have however is control over their own bodies. How many times do you need to be told this?

I am completely opposed to people having children they cannot afford. They should get an abortion.

Irrelevant. Conservatives are pushing for education that will increase unwanted pregnancies. Why do conservatives want to flood the world with unwanted children?

So killing the child is not irresponsible. Oh and in many states a woman can abandon her child without the consent or knowledge of the father

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe-haven_law

Expecting women to be responsible for THEIR CHOICES is not hating women. Liberals have said for 40 years having a child is 100% a woman's choice.

Having a child is most certainly not 100% a woman's choice (outside of artificial insemination). Are you sure you paid attention in health class? Carrying a child to term is 100% a woman's choice. We are ensuring that men are responsible for their own choices. You continue to argue for special rights for men, mostly it appears out of some pathological hatred for women.

Out of pure curiosity (and it really is genuine curiosity). Have you ever had a girlfriend? If so, was she aware of your views on women?

 

[Moonbeam]

I was quoting planned parenthood (an organization that liberals basically worhsip). I didnt know quoting liberals counting as making "hilariously wrong statements" about what liberals believe.

And not they think the idea it is wrong to "decide for another woman whether or not she was ready to become a parent" is beyond questioning. But somehow it is perfectly ok to decide whether a man is ready to become a parent.



So the only way a man can be certain of not becoming a father is abstinence. If only we had more abstinence-only education :hmm: ... oh wait liberals are always saying that is unworkable, because people are going to have sex. Engaging in pre-marital sex is not irresponsibility right?

So really what you are saying is you have no problem with a teenage girl ruining the life of a teenage boy, by forcing him to be responsible for her reproductive choice. :\

Sex is for reproduction. Why else would a boy have sex with a girl than to get her pregnant? And how can being a parent ruin your life. It's great to be a parent. The reason we have parents is to take care of kids.

 

[Moonbeam]

cybrsage: And you continue to project your faults and flaws onto others. A thousand psychologists cry silently at night for you.

M: You can't help but be absurd can you. You have ears that can hear a thousand psychologists cry silently at night.

c: Out of curiosity, what is the name of the mental failing which forces you toquite frequently be unable to use to the quote function properly?

M: I discovered that it offends people with defective brains, folk who are so internally insecure they are terrified to do anything out of line with the herd. It helps me identify who they are.

 

[nehalem256]

They are working to support their own reproductive choices. What people also have however is control over their own bodies. How many times do you need to be told this?



Irrelevant. Conservatives are pushing for education that will increase unwanted pregnancies. Why do conservatives want to flood the world with unwanted children?

I think the genuinely believe that abstinence will work. I mean look at their great "conservative" leaders like Newt Gingrich

Having a child is most certainly not 100% a woman's choice (outside of artificial insemination). Are you sure you paid attention in health class? Carrying a child to term is 100% a woman's choice. We are ensuring that men are responsible for their own choices. You continue to argue for special rights for men, mostly it appears out of some pathological hatred for women.

Carrying a child to term is kinda necessary for their to be a child huh? A woman has 100% of the choice on whether to bring a child into the world. She has to right to make a man responsible for that choice.

I continue to argue for the right of a man to not be forced to be responsible for a WOMAN'S CHOICE.

 

[fskimospy]

Carrying a child to term is kinda necessary for their to be a child huh? A woman has 100% of the choice on whether to bring a child into the world. She has to right to make a man responsible for that choice.

I continue to argue for the right of a man to not be forced to be responsible for a WOMAN'S CHOICE.

I've said all I need to say on this, if you don't want to accept reality I can't help you.

A woman does not have 100% of the choice on whether to bring a child into the world, barring artificial insemination. This is a simple, incontrovertible fact as well as basic biology. Both parties have equal control over their bodies, both parties have equal responsibility for a child that comes into the world.

Equality is wonderful, I'm sorry if you don't like some of its consequences.

 

[nehalem256]

I've said all I need to say on this, if you don't want to accept reality I can't help you.

A woman does not have 100% of the choice on whether to bring a child into the world, barring artificial insemination. This is a simple, incontrovertible fact as well as basic biology. Both parties have equal control over their bodies, both parties have equal responsibility for a child that comes into the world.

Equality is wonderful, I'm sorry if you don't like some of its consequences.

Sorry abortion 100% prevents a child being brought into the world. A woman can always choose to get an abortion. If she doesnt want to be responsible for a child then she should get one.

She has no right to force a man to work WITH HIS BODY to support a child he never wanted (or chose to have).

 

[fskimospy]

Sorry abortion 100% prevents a child being brought into the world. A woman can always choose to get an abortion. If she doesnt want to be responsible for a child then she should get one.

She has no right to force a man to work WITH HIS BODY to support a child he never wanted (or chose to have).

A woman cannot become pregnant without a man's help, barring artificial insemination. To say that it is 100% her choice is obviously false. If a child comes into the world as a result of an action by both a man and a woman, both of them are responsible for it's care. Both people must work as a result of their mutual decision. The fact that a woman also has agency over her body in no way affects the man's responsibility for his own choices.

You wish to give special rights to men, but that's not going to happen. You are just going to have to learn how to live with equality between the sexes in this case.

 

[nehalem256]

A woman cannot become pregnant without a man's help, barring artificial insemination. To say that it is 100% her choice is obviously false. If a child comes into the world as a result of an action by both a man and a woman, both of them are responsible for it's care.

In comes into the world because the woman CHOOSE not to get an abortion.

Both people must work as a result of their mutual decision. The fact that a woman also has agency over her body in no way affects the man's responsibility for his own choices.

And how do you think the man gets money. Does it magically appear(well maybe if you are mitt romney :sneaky? Or does he have to work WITH HIS BODY to get it? You are declaring that woman has agency over a man by forcing him to work to support her CHOICE.

 

[Bird222]

So really what you are saying is you have no problem with a teenage girl ruining the life of a teenage boy, by forcing him to be responsible for her reproductive choice. :\

Simple question. We know it takes both parties to make a baby however only one (the woman ) can carry it to term. Gun to your head, which person, the man or the woman should get to decide whether the woman should have an abortion?

 

[fskimospy]

In comes into the world because the woman CHOOSE not to get an abortion.

No, it comes into the world because two people have sex. A woman may cut this process off if she so chooses, but the actual event that places a fetus into existence is a joint effort by a man and a woman. This is simply not arguable, so stop.

And how do you think the man gets money. Does it magically appear(well maybe if you are mitt romney :sneaky? Or does he have to work WITH HIS BODY to get it? You are declaring that woman has agency over a man by forcing him to work to support her CHOICE.

A woman is not forcing a man to work, the law makes both people responsible for a baby's existence responsible for its support. The man made a choice to impregnate a woman, therefore he is responsible for the outcome. Everyone responsible for the act that created the baby is responsible for the care of the baby. Why are you so against equality?

 

[nehalem256]

Simple question. We know it takes both parties to make a baby however only one (the woman ) can carry it to term. Gun to your head, which person, the man or the woman should get to decide whether the woman should have an abortion?

I said a woman's choice and woman's responsibility. What was unclear about that.

 

[Atreus21]

Not to mention, I don't want marriage redefined in terms of children. Should I lose any legal benefit to marriage because I have no minor children?

In my opinion, there's no way to reorient it away from the focus on children. I think that's the whole reason marriage exists at all.

 

[nehalem256]

No, it comes into the world because two people have sex. A woman may cut this process off if she so chooses, but the actual event that places a fetus into existence is a joint effort by a man and a woman. This is simply not arguable, so stop.

And a fetus is not a child. Liberals have been this very clear for 40 years.

The child only comes into existence if the woman CHOOSES not to abort.

A woman is not forcing a man to work, the law makes both people responsible for a baby's existence responsible for its support. The man made a choice to impregnate a woman, therefore he is responsible for the outcome. Everyone responsible for the act that created the baby is responsible for the care of the baby. Why are you so against equality?

The woman made a choice to be impregnated by a man, therefore she is responsible for the outcome.

This is exactly the argument Republicans use for why abortion should be illegal. Since you seem to be applying the same logic for men. Why dont you think it should apply to women. Why is it ok for a woman to kill her child, or abandon it under safe-haven laws, but it is not ok for the man to walk away.

I mean other than the fact that you think men exist to be slaves for women.

 

[fskimospy]

And a fetus is not a child. Liberals have been this very clear for 40 years.

The child only comes into existence if the woman CHOOSES not to abort.

This is a simple denial of basic biology. The lack of an abortion does not create a fetus, therefore the lack of a woman having an abortion is not the act that brings a child into the world. Basic, basic biology.

The woman made a choice to be impregnated by a man, therefore she is responsible for the outcome.

This is exactly the argument Republicans use for why abortion should be illegal. Since you seem to be applying the same logic for men. Why dont you think it should apply to women. Why is it ok for a woman to kill her child, or abandon it under safe-haven laws, but it is not ok for the man to walk away.

I mean other than the fact that you think men exist to be slaves for women.

Yes, the woman is also responsible. If a woman has a child and the father gets custody the woman is held responsible for child support. Equality for all.

 

[Bird222]

I said a woman's choice and woman's responsibility. What was unclear about that.

Ok good got that out of the way. Now we have three people involved. Man, woman, and child. Gun to your head, which of the three people is a judge going to be more concerned with as far as their welfare?

 

[nehalem256]

This is a simple denial of basic biology. The lack of an abortion does not create a fetus, therefore the lack of a woman having an abortion is not the act that brings a child into the world. Basic, basic biology.

A fetus is not a child (havent you been listening to liberals for the last 40 years). Not aborting the fetus creates a child.

Yes, the woman is also responsible. If a woman has a child and the father gets custody the woman is held responsible for child support. Equality for all.

So if a woman has the child (clearly implying she wanted it). And the father gets custody, implying he wanted it. They both wanted it and both support it. This is not the situation I am talking about at all.

 

[fskimospy]

A fetus is not a child (havent you been listening to liberals for the last 40 years). Not aborting the fetus creates a child.

Interesting. How often must a woman have an abortion to prevent a child from spontaneously flying out of her vagina?

So if a woman has the child (clearly implying she wanted it). And the father gets custody, implying he wanted it. They both wanted it and both support it. This is not the situation I am talking about at all.

Wants are irrelevant as to equality of responsibility.

 

[nehalem256]

Ok good got that out of the way. Now we have three people involved. Man, woman, and child. Gun to your head, which of the three people is a judge going to be more concerned with as far as their welfare?

Depends on if we are considering a fetus a child or not

If a fetus is a child:
Woman (see Roe v. Wade)
Child
Man

If a fetus is not a child:
Child
Woman
Man

 

[Bird222]

Depends on if we are considering a fetus a child or not

If a fetus is a child:
Woman (see Roe v. Wade)
Child
Man

If a fetus is not a child:
Child
Woman
Man

I am trying to keep this simple. Man, woman, and ALREADY born child. Which one's welfare is the judge more concerned with?

 

[nehalem256]

Interesting. How often must a woman have an abortion to prevent a child from spontaneously flying out of her vagina?

As often as she conceives one.

Wants are irrelevant as to equality of responsibility.

.... unless you are a woman. If a woman doesnt want a child she has responsibility to it.

See Roe v. Wade.

Or if you are not going to consider a fetus a child, safe-haven laws which allow a woman to abandon a child if she doesnt want it without the knowledge or consent of the father.

 

[fskimospy]

As often as she conceives one.

Glad to see you agree with me now.

.... unless you are a woman. If a woman doesnt want a child she has responsibility to it.

See Roe v. Wade.

Or if you are not going to consider a fetus a child, safe-haven laws which allow a woman to abandon a child if she doesnt want it without the knowledge or consent of the father.

Incorrect. A woman has agency over her own body. Once a child is born and no longer a part of her body, she has a responsibility to it. Everyone who participates in the child's creation has the same. Equality for all! Why are you so against equality?

 

[nehalem256]

Incorrect. A woman has agency over her own body. Once a child is born and no longer a part of her body, she has a responsibility to it. Everyone who participates in the child's creation has the same. Equality for all! Why are you so against equality?

You seem to have no problem removing a man's agency over his own body, by forcing him to work to support a child a woman choose to bring into the world.

This is why I brought up safe haven laws. AFTER the child is born she is allowed to abandon no questions asked, without the notification or consent of the father.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe_haven_laws

A woman has no responsibility except that which she chooses to take.

 

[fskimospy]

You seem to have no problem removing a man's agency over his own body, by forcing him to work to support a child a woman choose to bring into the world.

This is why I brought up safe haven laws. AFTER the child is born she is allowed to abandon no questions asked, without the notification or consent of the father.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe_haven_laws

A woman has no responsibility except that which she chooses to take.

This is the last time I will say it. Both parties have an equal responsibility. It's basic equality. I have no idea what caused you to have such a rabid hatred for women, but I would genuinely like to know if you've ever had a girlfriend. This isn't meant to insult you, it would just explain your lack of perspective. My guess is no.