Noob to liquid cooling, looking for some help

[computerbuildin]

I've been thinking about moving up to custom liquid cooling, but there is a few things that come to mind, like some questions I have.
1. Is it worth it with the change of temps?
2. How much maintenance does a liquid cooling setup(of my choice) need?
3. What is the best, most efficient way to fill a water cooling loop?
4. Good way to avoid possible leaks? such as recommended barbs/fittings/tube?
Those are just some questions off the top of my head, but I certainly have more. My current setup is in my sig, but anyway I am using a CM V8. My main question is, depending on the price; Is it worth it to move from that CM V8 to this liquid cooling build.
Pump/Res combo: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...riant_Pump_Installed.html?tl=g30c97s152#blank
Radiator: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...ingle_120mm_Radiator.html?tl=g30c95s159#blank
CPU Block: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1..._1155_1156_1366_2011.html?tl=g30c85s139#blank
Barbs/Fittings 6x: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...-_14_ID_BP-WTP-C12.html?tl=g30c407s1028#blank
Tube(not sure on the amount of length I should get yet): http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2..._Laboratory_Tubing.html?tl=g30c99s170#options
Coolant: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2...00_ml_-_Pure_Blue_.html?tl=g30c337s2042#blank
Clamps 6x:http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1..._38_OD_Hose_Clamp_CLM-06N.html?tl=g30c289s720
I am looking for all (friendly) opinions on these choices, and will be happy to take some feedback if I should change something or not. A 120mm radiator is pretty much my only choice because of the case im using, but my CPU is the only thing ill be liquid cooling, dont have a big interest in adding the GPU to the water cooling setup.
Some extra info: Idle temps with the V8 are 39-41C Peak temps are around 60-64C

OR

Forget everything, ditch the idea, and go buy a closed loop cooler like a Corsair H80i

OR even just keep the V8 and move on.

 

[BrightCandle]

1. Define 'worth it'. The increase in thermal dissipation can be worth 200Mhz on air solutions depending on how much voltage you are willing to push and how thermally limited you are on air. It can also be much quieter than an air solution.

2. Not a whole lot once its setup. It needs draining and refilling every year and it might need cleaning if you used any particles in your loop (coloured liquid, or no anti algae solution) but otherwise a yearly refill of the liquid is sufficient. The maintenance headache comes with switching your CPU or motherboard where first all your water kit has to come off and then you can do the electrical bit. When you upgrade you find yourself first running air just to make sure all the new bits work and then pulling the machine apart to fit the water kit. In all it takes a lot longer to do minimal changes if the the water tubing is in the way of what you wanted to change.

3. Nothing special to filling a loop, pour the water in the reservoir to fill and then start the pump and stop it and refill the water reservoir and pretty soon you are just topping it up.

4. Barbs rather than push fittings and use clips. Use mostly straight lengths of tubing, no sharp turns, instead get angled barbs. You can also use 7/16" tubing over 1/2" barbs for a tighter fit just be aware they are a pain in the backside to get off and it adds time to putting it together as well.

DO NOT USE THE FESER ONE. Can't stress this enough, that stuff will split and leave gunk on the inside of your loop within 6 months. Just get some distilled water and a piece of silver or some anti algae liquid.

The radiator you are considering isn't really going to outperform an all in one loop, because its basically the same. Water cooling loop efficiency is determined by the number of radiator slots you have. But then you also have a 2500k, a CPU that doesn't really benefit from much from water cooling because it doesn't have much thermal output.

My advice is buy high end air, I would say the AIO and custom kits are only really beneficially worth it on the SB-E kit which has the thermal output to need water on the top overclocks. Most review sites have determine on 2500's and such that air is more efficient.

 

[computerbuildin]

So what you're saying is, im basically better off with keeping the V8?

 

[Agent11]

that pump and res is overkill for such a loop.

There is a reason why all in ones use tiny pumps and no reservoirs. Get the cheapest pump and use a T splitter for a fill line, I would ditch the feser and use distilled water as well. Grab a silver kill coil and insert it in the tubing some place.

You may want to explore the idea of a single 140mm radiator as well.

 

[computerbuildin]

So forget the reservoir, get a cheap pump and just fill things up with a T-line. Also regarding the 140mm idea, I dont have a spot for that. Im using an NZXT phantom and the 120mm rear is really my only choice. As for the pump, any recommendations?

 

[dma0991]

No. Keep the current choice of parts except the radiator and coolant. The small radiator means that you are constrained by how much heat you can dissipate and a CPU typically does best with 240mm or larger. NZXT Phantom is a large case, possibly fitting a 240mm + 120mm radiators as a start. You should find space (and money) to fit two double thickness 240mm radiators and add the GPU in the loop to make it worth the trouble of doing watercooling.

 

[BrightCandle]

Its a 2500k, the thermal output when fully overclocked is going to be around 150W. A single 120mm thick radiator can cool that to around a water delta of 13C. If he went for a 240mm radiator that drop it down to around 6C but 360mm would only be around 4C. There are serious diminishing returns to more radiators and its simply not worth overdoing it.

A dual radiator is certainly worth it if you are building a loop but an AIO can provide that (H100) at less cost. The 2500k just doesn't have a high enough thermal output to really benefit from water, air coolers are much more efficient up to about 150W than water coolers are, because they exchange the heat directly with the air. Its only once you start pushing 180W that it becomes clear water is beneficial, and its also the point where dual radiators are a necessity.

 

[dma0991]

Its a 2500k, the thermal output when fully overclocked is going to be around 150W. A single 120mm thick radiator can cool that to around a water delta of 13C. If he went for a 240mm radiator that drop it down to around 6C but 360mm would only be around 4C. There are serious diminishing returns to more radiators and its simply not worth overdoing it.

Maybe I didn't phrase it properly but what I meant with 240mm + 120mm was that its a bare minimum for the GPU to be in the loop and 240mm + 240mm as a preferred one. Of course, OP doesn't state that he wants to cool the GPU but I'm just saying that he should. Its pointless to do a half arsed job of custom watercooling in an ATX case with a 120mm radiator.

A dual radiator is certainly worth it if you are building a loop but an AIO can provide that (H100) at less cost.

He already has a CM V8, AIO won't give him much difference in performance worth changing the cooler. It'll be a different case if he's changing from a stock heatsink.

 

[Agent11]

You can mount the radiator hanging off of the back of the case with a spacer, like the old swiftech rad box.

It may be possible to do the same thing with a 120-140 fan adapter, or you could still find the swiftech rad box on your exhaust fan. This would allow you to mount a 2x120 radiator easily.

Honestly for a single cpu loop you do not need a D5. It is a high flow pump, and a t line is more than adequate. It will just take a little longer to bleed. Not that there is anything wrong with the d5 and bay reservoir, but I get the feeling you are going for bang for buck.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...e=product_info&cPath=59_201&products_id=26937
Koolance Pump, PMP-300 $40

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=25761
Koolance Tubing Splitter, F 10-6mm $5

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=59_346_203_475
There are many options that will depend on your hosing diameter, these koolance splitters are a steal with the included compression fittings.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...t_info&cPath=59_457_667_674&products_id=31350
Swiftech "eXtreme Performance" Dual 120mm Radiator $50

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...ct_info&cPath=59_457_335_987&products_id=1956
Swiftech MCB-120™ "Radbox" radiator/fan housing Rev 2 $20

The idea is you screw this to the back of your case on the exhaust fan mounting point, and mount the radiator to it. The idea may work for less with a 120 to 140mm fan adapter and a 140mm radiator... I haven't personally tried this however.

You would enjoy superior performance than with an AIO setup or the config you originally posted for sure.

 

[computerbuildin]

Thank you all so much for your help with this.
So I understand the need for a dual radiator now, but how would this Radbox work with the phantom? It's probably the same with other cases too. When I mount that on the back with a dual radiator, it's blocking a whole bunch of ports. Is there any way around this?

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...oducts_id=1956
Swiftech MCB-120™ "Radbox" radiator/fan housing Rev 2 $20

The idea is you screw this to the back of your case on the exhaust fan mounting point, and mount the radiator to it. The idea may work for less with a 120 to 140mm fan adapter and a 140mm radiator... I haven't personally tried this however.

 

[Agent11]

The rad box is a stand off. It gives you a few inches and a sturdy base to mount the radiator to. It attaches with screws through the exhaust fan mount on the back of the case.

You should still be able to access all ports.

 

[computerbuildin]

I'm still not sure if the radbox is the most useful thing for me, I know it sounds stupid but I was hoping my liquid cooling plan would stay inside the computer. Im just curious though, how much of a temperature difference do I get using a single 120mm to a dual 120mm?

 

[smackababy]

Bright already stated it would be about 13C delta with the 120 vs 6C delta with the 240.

In your particular case, it is not "worth" it in terms of money put in vs results gotten in temperatures; however, it is a fun (and expensive) hobby for some (like me) and we do it not because it is even practical but fun in the process of actually building.

 

[Agent11]

It's an investment as well, this cooling solution will work on other better cpu's in the future, and you may decide to get a case with out of the box support for a internal 240 rad in the future..

 

[computerbuildin]

I know that may seem like a nice difference, the 13c to 6c, but my current ambient temperature is around 45c. I'm just thinking here that 45c idle to 13c idle would be pretty nice. And like you said how some consider it a hobby in a way, I would too. I was going to liquid cool the first time I built this computer, but I decided to hold off until about now.

 

[smackababy]

^With possibly a few hardware adjustments, yes. If he changes sockets, he might have to buy a new CPU block. Even 1156 to 1155, I had to buy a new CPU block because mine was shorting out my CPU.

 

[smackababy]

I know that may seem like a nice difference, the 13c to 6c, but my current ambient temperature is around 45c. I'm just thinking here that 45c idle to 13c idle would be pretty nice. And like you said how some consider it a hobby in a way, I would too. I was going to liquid cool the first time I built this computer, but I decided to hold off until about now.

No, that is not what the delta means. Under full load, you will see a delta of 13C. So, likely, your idle be under 50C (due to your ambient being so high) and your load will be 13C higher.

 

[Agent11]

Generally you can get new mounting hardware, you can even set up your own mounting system pretty easily with a little research.

 

[computerbuildin]

No, that is not what the delta means. Under full load, you will see a delta of 13C. So, likely, your idle be under 50C (due to your ambient being so high) and your load will be 13C higher.

I must be really confused on what delta temperature means here. Lets just say this. If I were to use the setup with a single 120mm radiator, whats an idea of what my idle temperature would be, considering current conditions, such as it being overclocked to 4.1 GHz. My current idle is about 45c.

 

[smackababy]

I must be really confused on what delta temperature means here. Lets just say this. If I were to use the setup with a single 120mm radiator, whats an idea of what my idle temperature would be, considering current conditions, such as it being overclocked to 4.1 GHz. My current idle is about 45c.

Well, I don't know how much heat your system is putting out, but it would be close to your ambient temperature. Say if the temperature in your house is 30C, you'd idle probably around 31-32C depending on other factors. Now, a 120mm block can cool about 120w of heat with a delta of 10C (meaning a change in temperature of 10C). Since your CPU is rated at 150w, you will have a slightly larger delta at full load (which you won't hit very often for a sustained amount of time).

And as your ambient temperature changes (usually with the season) your idle and load changes. For instance, my gaming rig idles around 18C in the winter, but I keep my house especially cool (mostly because I like wearing sweaters).

The delta on air cooling is generally very high (30C+) and is usually much louder. The benefits of watercooling is you have a cooler running processor and can use quieter (slower) fans. Plus, it looks cool. >_>

 

[Agent11]

With a single fan you would have to have it set to move some air, with a dual radiator you can afford to turn down the fans for quieter performance.

 

[computerbuildin]

So heres an idea of total parts to get.
The pump: http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...e=product_info&cPath=59_201&products_id=26937
T connector and drain plug: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2..._T_Adapter_-_Chrome.html?tl=g30c499s745#blank plug: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...Matte_Black_BNPH-ID12-G14.html?tl=g30c101s460
Barbs/clamps: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...tting_-_14_ID_BP-WTP-C12.html?tl=g30c407s1028 http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1..._38_OD_Hose_Clamp_CLM-06N.html?tl=g30c289s720
Tubing: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2..._Laboratory_Tubing.html?tl=g30c99s170#options
Radiator(Again, not completely sure on this part, still need help choosing the best single 120mm): http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...ingle_120mm_Radiator.html?tl=g30c95s159#blank
Silver kill coil: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...r_Tubing_Reservoir_Strip.html?tl=g30c103s1676
CPU Block: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1..._1155_1156_1366_2011.html?tl=g30c85s139#blank
As for the coolant, just going to pick up some distilled water from the grocery store. Quick question about the dyes. Blue dye, or any dye really, would just clog up my loop right? I've seen maaany many other people use it but is it just really not recommended at all?

 

[Agent11]

Dye will seperate and stain tubing, I find it isn't worth it personally.

Can your case fit an 80mm thick internal radiator on your exhaust fan? If so and you want to go single 120 that is probably your best bet. May work near an intake as well?

You will need a good fan to move air through that thing though, and it will be louder than a 240.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...20mm_Radiator_-_80mm_Thick.html?tl=g30c95s159

 

[computerbuildin]

Dye will seperate and stain tubing, I find it isn't worth it personally.

Can your case fit an 80mm thick internal radiator on your exhaust fan? If so and you want to go single 120 that is probably your best bet. May work near an intake as well?

You will need a good fan to move air through that thing though, and it will be louder than a 240.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...20mm_Radiator_-_80mm_Thick.html?tl=g30c95s159

I just measured and I dont really have the room for an 80 mm thick one. At the most maybe 50-60 mm thick.

 

[Agent11]

Ok.

Any one will do then, they are pretty much in the same price range and offer similar features. I would stick to one of the names thats been around a while is all.