NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

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biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
16,008
1,320
126
I don't personally think that I'll have problems directly from Covid. My personal worries are:

1) Transmitting it to people that I am close with that would likely have problems directly from Covid. It started with my father-in-law that had stage IV lung cancer. Giving him a lower respiratory tract infection on top of his already limited lung capacity was very likely going to outright kill him.

2) What are the long-term consequences of Covid? No one really knows. Hopefully it is nothing. But we just don't know and will not know for decades. HPV can lead to cancer years later. HIV can lead to AIDS about 1 decade later. Chickenpox can lead to Shingles many decades later. But many other diseases are basically over once you are done with them.
I agree on all your points, except there's really no reason to worry about long term effects, because there's really no evidence for long term effects and no way we could prevent them from happening. It only makes sense to worry when we have some kind of evidence that there is something to be worried about. :p
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
53,748
6,234
126
I agree on all your points, except there's really no reason to worry about long term effects, because there's really no evidence for long term effects and no way we could prevent them from happening. It only makes sense to worry when we have some kind of evidence that there is something to be worried about. :p
Um... you are not aware of long Covid?
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
23,809
1,994
126
I agree on all your points, except there's really no reason to worry about long term effects, because there's really no evidence for long term effects and no way we could prevent them from happening. It only makes sense to worry when we have some kind of evidence that there is something to be worried about. :p
Like Nakedfrog said, there are known long-Covid effects. Mostly so far the serious effects are organ damage in those who are hospitalized which I would not expect to impact me as I probably wouldn't be hospitalized. But there are other known lingering minor effects. More effects, if any, will be known over the coming decades.

I'm commenting more on your "no way we could prevent them" part. My wife, my parents, my wife's family, and myself have have all prevented getting Covid. It isn't that difficult and we still keep active lives. I gave up ballroom dancing and going to the gym. But I found similar activities that I enjoy more. A combination of some social distancing (especially at work), socializing only with those who are trustworthy, quick stops into stores/businesses (10 minutes or less is my personal rule), strict and proper N95 mask wearing, and vaccinations actually do work.
 
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biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
16,008
1,320
126
Like Nakedfrog said, there are known long-Covid effects. Mostly so far the serious effects are organ damage in those who are hospitalized which I would not expect to impact me as I probably wouldn't be hospitalized. But there are other known lingering minor effects. More effects, if any, will be known over the coming decades.

I'm commenting more on your "no way we could prevent them" part. My wife, my parents, my wife's family, and myself have have all prevented getting Covid. It isn't that difficult and we still keep active lives. I gave up ballroom dancing and going to the gym. But I found similar activities that I enjoy more. A combination of some social distancing (especially at work), socializing only with those who are trustworthy, quick stops into stores/businesses (10 minutes or less is my personal rule), strict and proper N95 mask wearing, and vaccinations actually do work.
To me it seems we have to split covid in pre omicron variants and omicron variants. I agree with your post for pre omicron variants, but omicron slips past vaccines and doesn't seem to have the same severity as the pre omicron variants. The goal is no longer to prevent infection, it is to prevent severe illness. (at least here in Denmark)

I have three small children in daycare, so social distancing is not an option.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
23,809
1,994
126
To me it seems we have to split covid in pre omicron variants and omicron variants. I agree with your post for pre omicron variants, but omicron slips past vaccines and doesn't seem to have the same severity as the pre omicron variants. The goal is no longer to prevent infection, it is to prevent severe illness. (at least here in Denmark)

I have three small children in daycare, so social distancing is not an option.
Denmark is doing well, over 81% fully vaccinated. It is reaching the point that it can realistically focus on preventing serious illness (I personally think you should wait until 90% but that is just me). Although, I would be cautious with that approach as we have no idea if the next variant will be much more like pre-Omicron variants. Even though the historical trend is for new diseases to become less severe, there are bumps and valleys in that trend, so there very well can be more severe variants still to come.

The US is just over 63% fully vaccinated and my state is even worse than that. Even though Omicron is less severe, we aren't to the point where we can just focus on preventing severe illness.
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
10,148
4,886
136
Only speaking for myself: My view on covid ( Omicron variant only) has recently changed.. It is primarily because I and the rest of my household recently had it. It was like having a short and mild common cold. I have heard the same story from many close friends, co-workers, and customers. I will admit I was somewhat fearful of contracting covid . Once I got my positive result I was waiting and worrying about experiencing shortness of breath. It never happened . If I never tested positive I am sure I would still be very worried and somewhat fearful of contracting it.
Yeah I know a few people who got it, and none of them got really bad, even the most elderly of them. They were all fully vaxxed-up, though.

What bugs me is that on the one hand there's that, on the other hand at least the _global_ death numbers are going up again. They had flat-lined for months, till omicron came along, now the sheer number of cases seems to be pushing the daily death tolls back to where they were a year ago, despite that lower infection-fatality-rate.

Even confining it to just here in the UK or there in the US the daily death numbers don't exactly look good. It's like it's _so_ contageious it's still managing to seek out the vulnerable (and the still-unvaccinated) and kill them.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
16,008
1,320
126
Denmark is doing well, over 81% fully vaccinated. It is reaching the point that it can realistically focus on preventing serious illness (I personally think you should wait until 90% but that is just me). Although, I would be cautious with that approach as we have no idea if the next variant will be much more like pre-Omicron variants. Even though the historical trend is for new diseases to become less severe, there are bumps and valleys in that trend, so there very well can be more severe variants still to come.

The US is just over 63% fully vaccinated and my state is even worse than that. Even though Omicron is less severe, we aren't to the point where we can just focus on preventing severe illness.
The problem was, that even with restrictions and vaccination it spreads like wild fire. I had my 3rd shot in December and my wife had her 3rd shot in January, and we both got infected anyway. I had very few symptoms, and the only reason I took a test that day we found out, was because my wife tested positive.

Obviously something can happen, that changes the situation, but having restrictions that cannot prevent the inevitable, does not make sense.
 

Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
8,430
1,531
126
Only speaking for myself: My view on covid ( Omicron variant only) has recently changed.. It is primarily because I and the rest of my household recently had it. It was like having a short and mild common cold. I have heard the same story from many close friends, co-workers, and customers. I will admit I was somewhat fearful of contracting covid . Once I got my positive result I was waiting and worrying about experiencing shortness of breath. It never happened . If I never tested positive I am sure I would still be very worried and somewhat fearful of contracting it.
It's always been that type of virus. A disease along the lines 95% no death or hospital, 5% hospital or death type of things. Just that 1% or 5% of a population is enough to hit every place of residence. Part of the reason it spreads well is because many people do not even perceive infection and thus do not cease "spreading" activities during infection. If someone gets chicken pox, the development of the rash and blisters would give clear indication for the infected to be put into isolation.
It's precisely because it spares a lot of people that it is still alive and thriving while the original SARS died out. Isolation was even able to cut down on flu infections but the COVID train did not stop rolling, indicating COVID is a tougher and hardier virus in the real world.

The extra virulence of these later mutations would still be of concern of the unhealthy and vulnerable, such as the immuno-compromised, those who have eaten or drunk themselves into a terrible state of health, or perhaps lost the genetic lottery. IIRC, you were already supplementing vitamins D and C, which likely provided some beneficial effect on healthy during infection if proactively ingested prior to infection; even Fauci himself supplements himself with those two vitamins.

I still "worry" about COVID. Long loss of productivity and constant fatigue is not fun and even other common respiratory infections always hit me hard when they did hit in the past. Even "minor" ones would still affect my head and energy levels. The infection I did get prove costly, as some predatory city government inspectors wanted their slab of fine profit and I had to slowly resolve the matters while remaining under the weather.

However, this is probably the first winter in my life I have had high vitamin D levels; as I have bitten the bullet and started eating some canned sockeye salmon(a type of fish I have hated eating) and eating supplemental D3 and C that's been laying around for years. The principal reason is not COVID but because I have still-unresolved dental matters(a deep cleaning) I have yet to finally address. I have historically had a strong aversion to almost all things that contained vitamin D or allowed me to generate vitamin D by sunlight. It's a fucking miracle I didn't get rickets or osteomalacia; all those days of drinking a small carton of chocolate milk in school were indeed beneficial and mom buying orange juice all the time instead of much worse drinks like sodas. Salmon? The meat tastes like rubber. Eggs? The common caged ones are nasty; I only tried pasture-raised ones last year and they triggered my predation reflex, rare for any non-sweet, non-meat food. Tuna? Even without mercury concerns, the meat gets old real fast, just like salmon. Sardines? Didn't know about them until last fall. Milk? Off and on, and it sucks for quenching thirst.

I did come down with something this Sunday or last Friday that affected the throat and breathing. Nothing nasal or fever. I felt some brain drag, but not as bad as previous infections(that includes flu, colds years before COVID) or maybe it was actually the result of bad sleep. Staying up and having bad sleep because my mom had an emergency colonoscopy to prep for did not help matters, nor did a legal trial on appeal on Wednesday related to the above city government code enforcement bullshitters help either.

With that said, I do not believe the vaccine would benefit me substantially and would consider myself a potent spreader even if I get the shot. That is because the virus operates on me in manner most conducive to spread. COVID's symptoms like cough do not manifest in me until after it's done and killed off. A "functional yet dragging mind" is the best description I can come up with so far for its effect during active infection. I will still be masking and avoiding people if possible.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
16,008
1,320
126
Denmark is doing well, over 81% fully vaccinated. It is reaching the point that it can realistically focus on preventing serious illness (I personally think you should wait until 90% but that is just me).
Reaching 90% will be very difficult since you would have to vaccinate children down to a very young age, and from the data we currently have, you're asking them to be vaccinated, not for their own sake, but for the sake of people who are in a risk group. I've taken the vaccines as fast as they were offered, but my kids are too young to get them. If they had reached the age of 6 I'm not sure I would have vaccinated them, maybe, but I'm not sure. (And they all follow the normal children's vaccination program in Denmark)
 

gill77

Senior member
Aug 3, 2006
811
250
136
It's healthy to have hard conversations about the validity of data or the results of their analysis, but it seems difficult to argue that you just don't want to see the data.

I guess we will see though. I've seen stranger here.

 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
39,582
16,591
136
Even confining it to just here in the UK or there in the US the daily death numbers don't exactly look good. It's like it's _so_ contageious it's still managing to seek out the vulnerable (and the still-unvaccinated) and kill them.
Which is exactly what was predicted when scientists realized how much more infectious Omicron is even if it's somewhat less severe. A ton more infections at a lower fatality rate is still leading to a big pile of bodies almost exclusively from people who don't take the shots.
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
10,148
4,886
136
Which is exactly what was predicted when scientists realized how much more infectious Omicron is even if it's somewhat less severe. A ton more infections at a lower fatality rate is still leading to a big pile of bodies almost exclusively from people who don't take the shots.
Yeah, though I'm not sure it's exclusively among ideologically-driven vaccine refuseniks. It also seems to include those who are vaccinated but have existing conditions that put them at risk, plus there are those who can't be vaccinated or don't' have a good response to vaccines, or those in countries where vaccines are not easily available. The raw numbers seem to suggest that's still a _lot_ of people. Hence I'm really uncertain about the extent to which it's possible to 'get back to normal', or whether we need to continue with some quasi-lockdown measures.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
10,148
4,886
136
It's healthy to have hard conversations about the validity of data or the results of their analysis, but it seems difficult to argue that you just don't want to see the data.

I guess we will see though. I've seen stranger here.


What 'data' are you referring to? The point about the number who are formally-certified as dying solely of COVID is that we have always known that's a comparatively small number, but so what? The anti-lockdown types have constantly stressed that point, but I don't get the point of focusing on it. The 'excess deaths' figure seems to me to be the important metric - who has died who would, absent the pandemic, have lived?
 
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K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
39,582
16,591
136
Yeah, though I'm not sure it's exclusively among ideologically-driven vaccine refuseniks. It also seems to include those who are vaccinated but have existing conditions that put them at risk, plus there are those who can't be vaccinated or don't' have a good response to vaccines, or those in countries where vaccines are not easily available. The raw numbers seem to suggest that's still a _lot_ of people. Hence I'm really uncertain about the extent to which it's possible to 'get back to normal', or whether we need to continue with some quasi-lockdown measures.
No, it's almost all the first group. Are some people who are immunocompromised or otherwise not responsive to vaccination dying? Sure. Is it two to three thousand people a day? No way.

The unvaccinated are dying at waaaay higher rates than the vaccinated.

shots.png
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
33,132
5,055
126
Variant focused vaccine before fall.

Covid/flue combo fall of 2023.

(106:41 to 109:45)

Fabulous treatment by a supreme expert. Very professional treatment but a lay person can follow it (for me requires a fair amount of pausing to digest the points... he utilizes slides constantly, many of which include data, graphs, etc.).

A major point he makes at ~52:00 into this (and I've felt this way all along):

"If you want to control a pandemic you have to have mandatory vaccination and mandatory masking."

He goes on to say that a proper face mask, properly worn must be mandatory. Says a 4th vaccine (i.e. another booster) crafted to address the latest variant is necessary. More variants are coming. Complacency will work against us, it's inevitable that this is so. We will NEVER conquer SARS-CoV-2. We will be vaccinating against it in 100+ years...
 
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ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,109
2,406
126
So, it looks like T-Mobile is requiring all of their employees to get vaccinated by April 2nd:


Not to get political, but I'm curious what happens for T-Mobile employees that live in Florida, which has a law banning COVID vaccine mandates for private businesses. I'd imagine that it will probably be an ugly legal battle.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
14,294
11,159
136
No. That should be a choice 100%. But we also should not stop the world for the unvaccinated. If they choose to not get it, and put themselves at risk then they took that chance. Those who are quadruple vaxxed and triple masked and still scared of the unvax are free to take precautions themselves but vax or unvax everyone should be allowed everywhere, to have a job etc... In fact we need stronger laws for medical privacy. It should be illegal for any organization to ask for vax status for anything. Get rid of the social credit/vax passport system too.
I saw two concerts in the last 10 days. I'm glad there was a vaccination requirement at both venues.

One was city mandated, the other was the venue's own choice.

Good on them.
 
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Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
62,572
9,751
126
twitter.com
I saw two concerts in the last 10 days. I'm glad there was a vaccination requirement at both venues.

One was city mandated, the other was the venue's own choice.

Good on them.
I just don't get the bitterness and hatred people have in order to celebrate this stuff. What difference does it really make, if you're vaccinated and you get the virus you will not get very sick anyway. Pro mandate people don't seem to grasp that everybody can spread it and that being vaccinated just reduces the chance, it does not stop it 100%. Medical decision based segregation does not really benefit anyone and does more harm than good. If some people are that scared of a virus that they are protected against then they should be the ones that stay home. People need to take responsibility for their own health, not expect others to do it for them.

Now for a concert it's not really a huge deal, your life does not depend on going to one, but for jobs or ability to buy food etc it is more harmful to have these mandates than not as it ruins lives. People are losing their houses and having to file for bankruptcy because of this. All that for a very tiny chance of reducing spread of what is basically a cold for a vaccinated person. More places need to do like Florida and make these mandates illegal.

The narrative is slowly crumbling though, more and more people are fed up of this and just want to go back to normal. Ontario government has hinted towards going back to normal, and so has Saskatchewan. I think the truck convoy is having some influence or it's one hell of a timing. Lot of other countries have been starting their own too. It's just great seeing the country, and the world, coming together as one to fight the powers. In the end freedom will win. The ones that fight against freedom have never been on the right side of history. I've been seeing nothing but love and patriotism from the convoy crowd, and nothing but hatred from the opposition.

One of many videos of the protest going on. Well I'd say it's more a rally than a protest.


There's more trucks coming, but no idea where they are going to park lol. I think there is going to be a rotation over time, I'm sure not all of them can stay for long. The city hopes to clear it by tomorrow but I don't think that's happening. All trudeau and the provinces need to do is declare covid over and go back to normal, and they leave. If the government wants them gone the ball is in their court.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
14,294
11,159
136
I just don't get the bitterness and hatred people have in order to celebrate this stuff. What difference does it really make, if you're vaccinated and you get the virus you will not get very sick anyway. Pro mandate people don't seem to grasp that everybody can spread it and that being vaccinated just reduces the chance, it does not stop it 100%. Medical decision based segregation does not really benefit anyone and does more harm than good. If some people are that scared of a virus that they are protected against then they should be the ones that stay home. People need to take responsibility for their own health, not expect others to do it for them.

Now for a concert it's not really a huge deal, your life does not depend on going to one, but for jobs or ability to buy food etc it is more harmful to have these mandates than not as it ruins lives. People are losing their houses and having to file for bankruptcy because of this. All that for a very tiny chance of reducing spread of what is basically a cold for a vaccinated person. More places need to do like Florida and make these mandates illegal.

The narrative is slowly crumbling though, more and more people are fed up of this and just want to go back to normal. Ontario government has hinted towards going back to normal, and so has Saskatchewan. I think the truck convoy is having some influence or it's one hell of a timing. Lot of other countries have been starting their own too. It's just great seeing the country, and the world, coming together as one to fight the powers. In the end freedom will win. The ones that fight against freedom have never been on the right side of history. I've been seeing nothing but love and patriotism from the convoy crowd, and nothing but hatred from the opposition.

One of many videos of the protest going on. Well I'd say it's more a rally than a protest.


There's more trucks coming, but no idea where they are going to park lol. I think there is going to be a rotation over time, I'm sure not all of them can stay for long. The city hopes to clear it by tomorrow but I don't think that's happening. All trudeau and the provinces need to do is declare covid over and go back to normal, and they leave. If the government wants them gone the ball is in their court.
Your rant about freedom is just getting tiring and silly. You lack an ability of critical thinking over and over in this thread as well as spreading misinformation. Why don't you rail against the tyranny of stop lights and drivers licenses and red lights and having to drive on one side of the road or not being able to dump pollutants on your neighbors lawn. In a concert or restaurant atmosphere it is best for people to be vaccinated as it is not workable to wear a mask while doing those things as you are drinking and/or eating. At least before omicron vaccinated people who may have had covid unkowingly were transmissable 40% less of the time. That's a big deal. And far less likely to clog up the healthcare system. The powers that be that you rail against are actually the ones that are using propaganda against proven vaccines as a way to let stupid people feel they are fighting for freedom.

Selfish people didn't care then, and you'll never care. Therefore you should not be free to infect others because it is clear you are just selfish people that only give a shit about themselves.

You are free to make shitty health and medical choices that affect yourself, but not that can be spread to others and also really take over a healthcare system. Feel free to live off of sugar and fat and end up fat and diabetic, but not play coy with a disease that is spread with your breath.

Let's Go Red Squirrel!
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
62,572
9,751
126
twitter.com
Celebrating segregation is what is selfish. Most people including myself, and like 90% of that crowd are vaccinated and just fed up of keeping this stuff status quo and want to go back to normal. That is not selfish. Freedom does not end where your fear begins.

This is what they fight for:

This Convoy is not just for the truckers mandates.
It’s for the family members banned from visiting family in nursing homes.
It’s for the censorship on all social media platforms.
It’s for all the people afraid to speak in fear of being called conspiracy theorists.
It’s for the people who didn’t want to give up their freedom of choice!
It’s for the people who don’t want to give up their right to bear arms.
It’s for the people who don’t want to be in debt for the next 100 years.
It’s for the people who only want answers to the many questions that haven’t been answered.
It’s for the people afraid to hug their family and visit friends.
It’s for the people who want their lives back.
For the hairdressers to cut hair.
For the restaurants to serve food.
For the bars to play music.
For the students to learn.
For the kids to be free.
For people who want to work but are forced not to.
This is for the people.
This is for trying to silence honest and hardworking citizens.
Never in my life have I ever seen the healthy punished and the sick untreated.
This is for the 300,000 surgeries cancelled.
This is for the people that died waiting for their surgery.
This is for the people who died alone in the hospital without being able to hold that hands of their loved ones.
This is for the exhausted nurses, teachers, parents etc.
This is for the doctors that are going unheard.
This is for all the front line workers, delivery trucks, grocery store clerks, PSWs who are constantly working overtime etc.
This is for all of us.
True North, Strong and FREE
❤️
And more.

Anyone who thinks those basic freedoms are selfish can go fuck themselves.
 
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kt

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2000
5,639
683
126
Celebrating segregation is what is selfish. Most people including myself, and like 90% of that crowd are vaccinated and just fed up of keeping this stuff status quo and want to go back to normal. That is not selfish. Freedom does not end where your fear begins.

This is what they fight for:



And more.

Anyone who thinks those basic freedoms are selfish can go fuck themselves.
P&N is that way --->
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
14,294
11,159
136
Celebrating segregation is what is selfish. Most people including myself, and like 90% of that crowd are vaccinated and just fed up of keeping this stuff status quo and want to go back to normal. That is not selfish. Freedom does not end where your fear begins.

This is what they fight for:



And more.

Anyone who thinks those basic freedoms are selfish can go fuck themselves.
Your freedom ends when your first hits my nose. And that includes you not taking a free vaccine that lowers your transmission off a deadly virus or not clogging up healthcare resources.

Around here restrictions are just fine. Dining, concerts, life is happening. People wear masks inside stores and non eating or drinking venues for now.

It's going well. I could give two shits about morons that can't eat inside in NYC.

Also you do seem to love freedom, the freedom to spread lots of misinformation as you have been caught doing many times in this thread
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
35,032
14,115
146
I guess its not surprising this argument over freedoms is still a thing. It's unfortunately expected that other freedoms that cause these freedom fighters to be afraid seem completely rational to them.

I'm vaccinated, no sweat. I still put my mask on where it's required (town by town basis) or I know that it will be close quarters for more than 5 minutes (grocery, cvs / Walgreens, etc...). I don't know a single person that likes the masks, but we know it works, and if I can not spread an infectious disease to someone and cause them problems then I'm cool with it.

Some people really are just selfish.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
24,400
29,041
136
The narrative is slowly crumbling though, more and more people are fed up of this and just want to go back to normal. Ontario government has hinted towards going back to normal, and so has Saskatchewan. I think the truck convoy is having some influence or it's one hell of a timing. Lot of other countries have been starting their own too. It's just great seeing the country, and the world, coming together as one to fight the powers. In the end freedom will win. The ones that fight against freedom have never been on the right side of history. I've been seeing nothing but love and patriotism from the convoy crowd, and nothing but hatred from the opposition.

One of many videos of the protest going on. Well I'd say it's more a rally than a protest.


There's more trucks coming, but no idea where they are going to park lol. I think there is going to be a rotation over time, I'm sure not all of them can stay for long. The city hopes to clear it by tomorrow but I don't think that's happening. All trudeau and the provinces need to do is declare covid over and go back to normal, and they leave. If the government wants them gone the ball is in their court.
desecrating a war memorial, stealing from homeless shelters, acting like thugs , true 'canadian' patriots
 

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