NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

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JM Aggie08

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
7,770
477
126
laughing my ass off at the 'Freedom' Convoy, more like a convoy of Karen's , nothing but more right wing gifting


"GoFundMe has frozen the $4 million in funds raised by the trucker convoy now wending its way across the country toward Ottawa in a protest against vaccine mandates.
"We require that fundraisers be transparent about the flow of funds and have a clear plan for how those funds will be spent. In this case, we are in touch with the organizer to verify that information," Rachel Hollis, a spokeswoman for the crowdfunding platform, said in an email.
"Funds will be safely held until the organizer is able to provide the documentation to our team about how funds will be properly distributed."


- Canadian Truckers Alliance support vaccine mandates for truckers. (10% are unvaxxed)


not a grift at all, nope, just freedom loving Canadians!
You love to see it.

Hard to comprehend that everyone believes they're the good guy in their own personal narrative, with so many fucking stupid people in the world.
 

JM Aggie08

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
7,770
477
126
Study confirms omicron reinfections

Best case scenario, honestly. Omicron specifically becomes endemic, the already mild (relatively speaking) symptoms continue to get watered down at the individual level, and we try to move on with our lives as best we can.

I say this, speaking for healthy, non-immunocompromised individuals. I honestly don't know how this plays out for that demographic, but then again, I am not qualified to know.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
24,415
29,095
136

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
23,809
1,994
126
It seems we have reached the light at the end of the tunnel.
"high rates of vaccination"
"it is mainly due to the large attachment among Danes to revaccination"

If only people here didn't fight vaccines, then we too could remove restrictions. Instead, the "freedom" crowd is forcing us into forever restrictions.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
39,601
16,652
136
"high rates of vaccination"
"it is mainly due to the large attachment among Danes to revaccination"

If only people here didn't fight vaccines, then we too could remove restrictions. Instead, the "freedom" crowd is forcing us into forever restrictions.
The "freedom" people have maintained that we can somehow experience better outcomes with less effort and all they've been able to accomplish is to die at a 2-3k clip a day. Whatever their motives, and they vary, the outcome is quite clear.
 
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Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
62,582
9,752
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twitter.com
"high rates of vaccination"
"it is mainly due to the large attachment among Danes to revaccination"

If only people here didn't fight vaccines, then we too could remove restrictions. Instead, the "freedom" crowd is forcing us into forever restrictions.
We have high rates of vaccination here too. Yet the restrictions keep getting stricter and the rolling lockdowns continue.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
23,809
1,994
126
We have high rates of vaccination here too. Yet the restrictions keep getting stricter and the rolling lockdowns continue.
Not high enough, that is the problem. Your fully vaccinated rate is certainly better than the US, but it is less than Denmark. The way you keep posting, it'll stay not high enough to end restrictions.

Every single person wants restrictions to end. We just differ on how to get there. The safe way is to get vaccinations high enough (ideally over 90% fully vaccinated).
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
23,809
1,994
126
I was just looking at "Our World in Data". Can you point me towards any country that is 90% fully vaccinated?
The anti-vaxxers and "freedom" people have succeeded in preventing that from happening for the most part. With the result having us be in restrictions for months. Restrictions that could have been avoided if we just stop fighting each other on social media and start fighting the disease.

So far, only the United Arab Emirates have reached that point. Gibraltar has possibly reached it, but the data is suspect due to vaccinating non-residents. Chile, Singapore, Cuba, Malta, and South Korea are quite close. Note: 90% isn't a magic number, but it is an achievable goal that should really let us open up without much problems. A percent here or there is acceptable too.

Here is the data, you can add or remove countries on the left. It is sorted by number of vaccinations per 100 people.

 
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gill77

Senior member
Aug 3, 2006
811
250
136

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
16,019
1,325
126
Not high enough, that is the problem. Your fully vaccinated rate is certainly better than the US, but it is less than Denmark. The way you keep posting, it'll stay not high enough to end restrictions.

Every single person wants restrictions to end. We just differ on how to get there. The safe way is to get vaccinations high enough (ideally over 90% fully vaccinated).
I guess it also has something to do with how many are on intensive care. ATM there are more than 50k new incidents/day pr day, the highest ever in Denmark ~6m pop, but those on intensive care remains very low, and many are long term delta patients. Currently only 33 on intensive care and 22 on respiratory help.
 

gill77

Senior member
Aug 3, 2006
811
250
136
Peter Attia - Why I’m for COVID vaccines, but against vaccine mandates.

The goal of this article is not to irritate you for the sake of irritating you. My hope in writing this, first and foremost, is to invite you to think. In the heated debate over vaccine mandates, science and logic have often been lost amid politics and fear. Ever-evolving circumstances – such as the emergence of variants with radically different levels of infectiousness or virulence – have only further separated opinion from facts. (After all, if facts are changing, why haven’t opinions changed, too?)


Of course, I’d like to convince you of my point of view (denying this would simply be disingenuous—why else do we write or argue a point?). But if that fails, I hope, at least, that this newsletter may serve as a reminder that exchanging rational decision-making for fear and blind partisanship is a recipe for injustice, discrimination, and policies that may do more harm than good. Scientific policy must be based on scientific truth — otherwise it will be ineffective in the present — and damage credibility for the future.
 
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K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
39,601
16,652
136
I guess it also has something to do with how many are on intensive care. ATM there are more than 50k new incidents/day pr day, the highest ever in Denmark ~6m pop, but those on intensive care remains very low, and many are long term delta patients. Currently only 33 on intensive care and 22 on respiratory help.
Must be the windmill cancer keeping COVID at bay.
 
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dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
23,809
1,994
126
If you change the settings to "Confirmed cases" and "New per day", you can get a feel for whether 90% looks like the silver bullet.
There are no silver bullets. Never have been and never will be. Medicine isn't black/white or on/off or good/bad. Medicine is probabilities where everything is a shade of grey. With medical treatments or preventions, 'mostly' is better than 'partly' and 'partly' is better than 'nothing'. Vaccines are in the 'mostly' category. They mostly work.

You seem to only accept silver bullets--that is the key difference between us. I accept good enough bullets. And the good enough bullets get better and better the more you have. A volley of good enough bullets does much better in a war than a single good enough bullet.
 
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Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
62,582
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twitter.com
Peter Attia - Why I’m for COVID vaccines, but against vaccine mandates.

The goal of this article is not to irritate you for the sake of irritating you. My hope in writing this, first and foremost, is to invite you to think. In the heated debate over vaccine mandates, science and logic have often been lost amid politics and fear. Ever-evolving circumstances – such as the emergence of variants with radically different levels of infectiousness or virulence – have only further separated opinion from facts. (After all, if facts are changing, why haven’t opinions changed, too?)


Of course, I’d like to convince you of my point of view (denying this would simply be disingenuous—why else do we write or argue a point?). But if that fails, I hope, at least, that this newsletter may serve as a reminder that exchanging rational decision-making for fear and blind partisanship is a recipe for injustice, discrimination, and policies that may do more harm than good. Scientific policy must be based on scientific truth — otherwise it will be ineffective in the present — and damage credibility for the future.
That was a pretty good read and pretty much sums up my views at this point.
 

gill77

Senior member
Aug 3, 2006
811
250
136
There are no silver bullets. Never have been and never will be. Medicine isn't black/white or on/off or good/bad. Medicine is probabilities where everything is a shade of grey. With medical treatments or preventions, 'mostly' is better than 'partly' and 'partly' is better than 'nothing'. Vaccines are in the 'mostly' category. They mostly work.

You seem to only accept silver bullets--that is the key difference between us. I accept good enough bullets. And the good enough bullets get better and better the more you have. A volley of good enough bullets does much better in a war than a single good enough bullet.
The vaccines would have had to have been silver bullets, in the sense of one shot, one dead bug, in order to have had a shot at not ending up where we are now. Probably for all variants. Big ask. What they do provide is remarkable, better than good enough. They have been a lifesaver, but I don't see us using them to vaccinate our way out of this. Even if somehow the world hits 90%.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
16,019
1,325
126
The vaccines would have had to have been silver bullets, in the sense of one shot, one dead bug, in order to have had a shot at not ending up where we are now. Probably for all variants. Big ask. What they do provide is remarkable, better than good enough. They have been a lifesaver, but I don't see us using them to vaccinate our way out of this. Even if somehow the world hits 90%.
As it is now, they're really not that effective towards reducing contagion, but they lessen the effects of the disease. The reason Denmark is dropping all restrictions, is that when most of the population is vaccinated omicron behaves like a very contagious but relatively mild flu. So it has stopped being dangerous.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
53,765
6,258
126
The vaccines would have had to have been silver bullets, in the sense of one shot, one dead bug, in order to have had a shot at not ending up where we are now. Probably for all variants. Big ask. What they do provide is remarkable, better than good enough. They have been a lifesaver, but I don't see us using them to vaccinate our way out of this. Even if somehow the world hits 90%.
I don't really agree with this assessment, if we'd have better vaccine uptake from the get-go, we could have had a very different picture. The Salk polio vaccine was "up to 80-90% effective", and is generally regarded as the silver bullet against polio, is it not?
 
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manly

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
9,556
911
126
I have a question for people more familiar with hospitals in the U.S. Supposedly we have over 900k total hospital beds nationally. How are hospitals under such intense strain regionally when ~ 150k people are hospitalized? Are the vast majority of the 900k beds just gathering dust and not actually staffed?

There are no silver bullets. Never have been and never will be. Medicine isn't black/white or on/off or good/bad. Medicine is probabilities where everything is a shade of grey. With medical treatments or preventions, 'mostly' is better than 'partly' and 'partly' is better than 'nothing'. Vaccines are in the 'mostly' category. They mostly work.

You seem to only accept silver bullets--that is the key difference between us. I accept good enough bullets. And the good enough bullets get better and better the more you have. A volley of good enough bullets does much better in a war than a single good enough bullet.
Not only does he talk down good bullets, he spends an awful lot of time advocating for a fly swatter instead. Recently he's twice advocated for the Great Barrington Declaration, which was basically a herd immunity strategy promoted prior to vaccine availability.

It's ironic as fuck to complain that COVID vaccines don't stop transmission, but the way out of the pandemic is unchecked transmission.

I don't really agree with this assessment, if we'd have better vaccine uptake from the get-go, we could have had a very different picture. The Salk polio vaccine was "up to 80-90% effective", and is generally regarded as the silver bullet against polio, is it not?
He'd still complain COVID vaccines can't eradicate the virus 100%.
 
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balloonshark

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2008
5,508
1,720
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Yikes. WV has 14 pediatric hospitalizations, 4 in ICU and 5 on vent. This is the first time I remember seeing any little ones on the vent.

During my trip to the hospital I saw a national guardsman helping with security at the main doors.
 

gill77

Senior member
Aug 3, 2006
811
250
136
I don't really agree with this assessment, if we'd have better vaccine uptake from the get-go, we could have had a very different picture. The Salk polio vaccine was "up to 80-90% effective", and is generally regarded as the silver bullet against polio, is it not?
So we achieve better uptake in the US to what level? Then no Delta?
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
10,162
4,901
136
It seems we have reached the light at the end of the tunnel.

I don't know if I'd take that as a definitive turning point - countries have repeatedly scrapped restrictions then bought them back in again (then, sometimes, scrapped them again, repeatedly). The Netherlands had to bring restrictions back, so did Boris's government a few months ago (now they are removing them again).

Certainly does seem that omicron is not as deadly as previous variants, but, at least globally, deaths-per-day have been steadily increasing recently, back to where it was a few months ago, as the greater numbers of infections seems to be making up for the reduction in deadliness.

I don't really know what to make of it now.


Peter Attia - Why I’m for COVID vaccines, but against vaccine mandates.

The goal of this article is not to irritate you for the sake of irritating you. My hope in writing this, first and foremost, is to invite you to think. In the heated debate over vaccine mandates, science and logic have often been lost amid politics and fear. Ever-evolving circumstances – such as the emergence of variants with radically different levels of infectiousness or virulence – have only further separated opinion from facts. (After all, if facts are changing, why haven’t opinions changed, too?)


Of course, I’d like to convince you of my point of view (denying this would simply be disingenuous—why else do we write or argue a point?). But if that fails, I hope, at least, that this newsletter may serve as a reminder that exchanging rational decision-making for fear and blind partisanship is a recipe for injustice, discrimination, and policies that may do more harm than good. Scientific policy must be based on scientific truth — otherwise it will be ineffective in the present — and damage credibility for the future.
On first (superficial) reading that guy makes some reasonable points. Though I'd want to check the things he says - for example, did Trudeau (someone I don't like, anyway) really say "the unvaccinated" belong in the same category as misogynists and racists? Would make more sense to put anti-vaccine activists in that category, and that's not the same thing.
 

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