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NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,758
4,161
126
Good. FDA approves the Moderna booster. Now we wait for the CDC to approve as well. They meet on the 20th.
The recommendation for Moderna is for a 1/2 dose. They didn't do this for Pfizer AFAIK. Is 1/2 dose really enough?
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
9,146
3,992
136
I don't understand this article. Can anyone explain what it means to say that the mu-variant, despite evading existing antibodies, was "out-competed" by delta?

If the mu-variant isn't stopped by existing antibodies, then it's going to infect people. How does the widespread presence of the infectious Delta variant stop it doing that? In what sense do virus variants 'compete'? How does one displace the other?


 

Spacehead

Lifer
Jun 2, 2002
11,962
6,753
136
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Feb 4, 2009
31,488
11,882
136
Gotta be honest, I think things are looking good. We are vaccinated well enough, delta has probably moved us over the heard immunity goal.
Admittedly there is the possibility of yet another variant.
I do foresee a fairly normal holiday season.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,758
4,161
126
Data from NIH mixing study and it looks fine from a response standpoint. No related severe adverse events. Presumably this will be more important for foreign visitors who are more likely to have received doses of different vaccines at a larger interval that need to clear into the US.


Thanks, so I'm wondering and many many people are surely also wondering:

I had 2x Moderna (last in early March 2021). So, next week probably Moderna booster gets authorization, Pfizer is fully approved now.

My question is: Why not see if I can mix, i.e. get the Pfizer instead of a 3rd Moderna? Or would Moderna booster be a better idea if already Moderna vaxxed?
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,758
4,161
126
Gotta be honest, I think things are looking good. We are vaccinated well enough, delta has probably moved us over the heard immunity goal.
Admittedly there is the possibility of yet another variant.
I do foresee a fairly normal holiday season.
I think it's more complicated than that. Depends where you are, what you're doing. There's still 1700 deaths/day now in the USA from covid directly. Some places have medical facilities way way overtaxed if not overrun. In terms of policy, everything should be done to get the unvaxxed vaxxed.
 

manly

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
9,233
677
126
Thanks, so I'm wondering and many many people are surely also wondering:

I had 2x Moderna (last in early March 2021). So, next week probably Moderna booster gets authorization, Pfizer is fully approved now.

My question is: Why not see if I can mix, i.e. get the Pfizer instead of a 3rd Moderna? Or would Moderna booster be a better idea if already Moderna vaxxed?
It doesn't matter much. But because Moderna has the best real world efficacy/durability data, you should stick with it for the booster.
 
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jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
10,309
2,499
136

Here's some comedy - two kids (4 and 5) were given the Adult Pfizer dosage vaccine instead of a flu shot.
 
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allisolm

Elite Member
Administrator
Jan 2, 2001
24,010
2,262
136

Here's some comedy - two kids (4 and 5) were given the Adult Pfizer dosage vaccine instead of a flu shot.
Maybe I haven't had enough coffee this morning but I am not understanding how any of that could be considered comedic. Both children wound up at a pediatric cardiologist. Not amusing from here.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
20,188
3,245
126
Thanks, so I'm wondering and many many people are surely also wondering:

I had 2x Moderna (last in early March 2021). So, next week probably Moderna booster gets authorization, Pfizer is fully approved now.

My question is: Why not see if I can mix, i.e. get the Pfizer instead of a 3rd Moderna? Or would Moderna booster be a better idea if already Moderna vaxxed?

My primary-care doctors opinion is that I should stick with Moderna and that I should get one as soon as its available which is what I was already planning to do.

Far as I'm aware the biggest difference between Moderna and Pfizer has to do with the dosage and inactive ingredients so I don't see any real advantage to my changing it up.




Here's some comedy - two kids (4 and 5) were given the Adult Pfizer dosage vaccine instead of a flu shot.

404 Error: funny not found :confused:
 
Last edited:
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pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
9,146
3,992
136
Is there a particular reason why Russia, Ukraine, and Romania are all seeing big surges in both case numbers and deaths?
Is it just that Delta has only just reached them, so this is just the same delta wave that has already hit elsewhere? Just hoping it doesn't mean a new, worse, variant has appeared over there. From what I read all those countries have big problems with people distrusting the vaccines, so maybe it's mostly down to that?

(I'm just watching the global daily figures and hoping desperately that the downward trend in those simply continues, and there isn't instead another wave, due to yet another variant...really desperate for this to end now).
 
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K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
37,793
12,517
136
Is there a particular reason why Russia, Ukraine, and Romania are all seeing big surges in both case numbers and deaths?
Is it just that Delta has only just reached them, so this is just the same delta wave that has already hit elsewhere? Just hoping it doesn't mean a new, worse, variant has appeared over there. From what I read all those countries have big problems with people distrusting the vaccines, so maybe it's mostly down to that?

(I'm just watching the global daily figures and hoping desperately that the downward trend in those simply continues, and there isn't instead another wave, due to yet another variant...really desperate for this to end now).
Fully vaxxed rate for Russia is in the low 30s I'm thinking that's the problem.
 
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pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
9,146
3,992
136
Fully vaxxed rate for Russia is in the low 30s I'm thinking that's the problem.
Romania and Bulgaria are also the slowest vaccine-rollouts in the EU, so that probably fits also. But it makes me nervous that all those countries seeing a new surge in cases are geographically close to each other - I'd have thought that's the pattern you'd see if there were a new, as-yet-unidentified, variant on the rise.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
37,793
12,517
136
Romania and Bulgaria are also the slowest vaccine-rollouts in the EU, so that probably fits also. But it makes me nervous that all those countries seeing a new surge in cases are geographically close to each other - I'd have thought that's the pattern you'd see if there were a new, as-yet-unidentified, variant on the rise.
I'm not really concerned unless the quite good surveillance in the UK flags something problematic.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
37,793
12,517
136
I imagine they have a bit of trust issue.

Putin: our vaccine is effective.
Russians: err is it Novichok?
Russians with the means are traveling to Europe to get mRNA vaccines because they don't trust the government about their homegrown and due to the little data they've furnished the rest of the world it's not going to be accepted as a valid vaccination for entry purposes.
 
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dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
23,140
1,384
126
Is there a particular reason why Russia, Ukraine, and Romania are all seeing big surges in both case numbers and deaths?
Is it just that Delta has only just reached them, so this is just the same delta wave that has already hit elsewhere? Just hoping it doesn't mean a new, worse, variant has appeared over there. From what I read all those countries have big problems with people distrusting the vaccines, so maybe it's mostly down to that?

(I'm just watching the global daily figures and hoping desperately that the downward trend in those simply continues, and there isn't instead another wave, due to yet another variant...really desperate for this to end now).
Like others have said, there is a lot of vaccine hesitancy. Mistrust of government controlled media actually ruined one of their biggest successes (they were first to market and their vaccine works pretty well).

But also, Covid like many respiratory diseases is seasonal. I don't think the seasonality gets enough attention. When it is colder outside people head indoors more. Also, indoor heaters lead to dry air, meaning it is much more likely to aerosolize (which doesn't really happen much in humid areas, hence the heated debate earlier--it isn't one or the other it depends on the circumstances). Here are some other northern areas:
  • Russia: surging
  • Finland: surging
  • Estonia: surging
  • Latvia: surging
  • Idaho, Montana, North Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Vermont, New Hampshire: Surging
  • Iceland: medium high and rising
  • Alaska, Washington, Maine: just got off a fall peak
  • Canada: just got off a fall peak
  • Norway: just got off a fall peak
  • Mongolia: just got off a fall peak
The only country/state that doesn't meet that trend is Sweden.
  • Sweden: no fall surge but also >70% vaccinated
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
9,146
3,992
136
Like others have said, there is a lot of vaccine hesitancy. Mistrust of government controlled media actually ruined one of their biggest successes (they were first to market and their vaccine works pretty well).

But also, Covid like many respiratory diseases is seasonal. I don't think the seasonality gets enough attention. When it is colder outside people head indoors more. Also, indoor heaters lead to dry air, meaning it is much more likely to aerosolize (which doesn't really happen much in humid areas, hence the heated debate earlier--it isn't one or the other it depends on the circumstances). Here are some other northern areas:
  • Russia: surging
  • Finland: surging
  • Estonia: surging
  • Latvia: surging
  • Idaho, Montana, North Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Vermont, New Hampshire: Surging
  • Iceland: medium high and rising
  • Alaska, Washington, Maine: just got off a fall peak
  • Canada: just got off a fall peak
  • Norway: just got off a fall peak
  • Mongolia: just got off a fall peak
The only country/state that doesn't meet that trend is Sweden.
  • Sweden: no fall surge but also >70% vaccinated

Yes, it's going to increase when it gets cold and people start clustering together indoors (which is why I fear it will get bad here in UK in the next few months), but the geographical effect right now seems more to do with the east (of Europe) than the north. Note that Romania and Serbia are also seeing a very big increase. Also it's deaths that are increasing not just case numbers (here in UK case counts are rising dramatically, as expected after they ended all lockdown measures, including masks, but the vaccines seem to be keeping death numbers under control).
The common factor in the countries where both are rising drastically does seem to be vaccine hesitancy, though.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
10,474
4,494
136
Like others have said, there is a lot of vaccine hesitancy. Mistrust of government controlled media actually ruined one of their biggest successes (they were first to market and their vaccine works pretty well).

But also, Covid like many respiratory diseases is seasonal. I don't think the seasonality gets enough attention. When it is colder outside people head indoors more. Also, indoor heaters lead to dry air, meaning it is much more likely to aerosolize (which doesn't really happen much in humid areas, hence the heated debate earlier--it isn't one or the other it depends on the circumstances). Here are some other northern areas:
  • Russia: surging
  • Finland: surging
  • Estonia: surging
  • Latvia: surging
  • Idaho, Montana, North Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Vermont, New Hampshire: Surging
  • Iceland: medium high and rising
  • Alaska, Washington, Maine: just got off a fall peak
  • Canada: just got off a fall peak
  • Norway: just got off a fall peak
  • Mongolia: just got off a fall peak
The only country/state that doesn't meet that trend is Sweden.
  • Sweden: no fall surge but also >70% vaccinated
I think the seasonality has yet to be really proven out, right now it seems like typical human pattern finding and confirmation bias. The peaks have not lined up with other seasonal viruses that well. And the summer peak YoY didnt really line up.

I think expecting it to become seasonal is a fair assumption, but dont think it explains as much as currently stated.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,007
1,511
126
I think the seasonality has yet to be really proven out, right now it seems like typical human pattern finding and confirmation bias. The peaks have not lined up with other seasonal viruses that well. And the summer peak YoY didnt really line up.

I think expecting it to become seasonal is a fair assumption, but dont think it explains as much as currently stated.
I hate that so many people keep talking about "Herd Immunity" as though it's the only goal. I'm happy with "Herd Resistance" if we can accomplish that.

As long as you have people that are not vaccinated by choice and not directly exposed to it, you're going to see pockets of it pop up since many anti-vaxxers are families. With Herd Resistance, it will at least slow the community spread to something the health systems can manage.

Seasonality is all based on the idea that people tend to share more indoor space during holidays and events. Flu season usually is the colder months, but since COVID is so much more transmissible, we saw spikes during Summer months after the 4th of July.

My wife said she's seeing a lot more lagging deaths now even though our case count is down. Most deaths occur 25-30 days after initial infection and she's seeing a lot more older men that didn't vaccinate or overweight mothers in their 40's. It's pretty sad stuff when you see kids lose their parents because they didn't assess the risk correctly due to something they heard and believed on talk radio or at church.
 
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