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NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
19,623
2,956
126
Re-read my post as it relates to the one I quoted. Ajay was arguing that aspects of vaccine hesitancy can be explained by "reasonably intelligent" people having qualms about an emergency use authorization as opposed to full FDA approval. He also suggested these fears can be attributed to comparing the rapid release of the Covid-19 vaccines vs. historical vaccines. My overall point is that he gives vaccine hesitancy way too much credit for being thoughtful and reasoned.

Technically, I'm not even referring to the science itself. Does a layman understand mRNA or what the spike protein is? Fat chance getting an average Joe to make an informed decision based on the underlying science, even though it is often distilled down for more people to understand.

My hunch is that full FDA approval won't move the needle much. This is the non-political thread, but the evidence is abundant that a lot of vaccine rejection (which is different from hesitancy) boils down to political affiliation.

I understand your point but I disagree.

Vaccine-hesitancy, denial, mistrust ... whatever you want to call it ... IS without doubt largely spread by the ignorant.

The myriad reasons leading TO that ignorance are another issue entirely although in summery for the most part ignorance goes hand-in-hand with lack of education.

If education/lack thereof AND vaccine levels happen to fall along political/party lines so be it.
 
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manly

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
9,159
644
126
I understand your point but I disagree.

Vaccine-hesitancy, denial, mistrust ... whatever you want to call it ... IS without doubt largely spread by the ignorant.

The myriad reasons leading TO that ignorance are another issue entirely although in summery for the most part ignorance goes hand-in-hand with lack of education.

If education/lack thereof AND vaccine levels happen to fall along political/party lines so be it.
We aren't disagreeing. ;)
 

Dr. Detroit

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2004
7,714
294
126
Jun 18, 2000
10,887
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126
40% of current UK COVID Hospitalizations are those who were double vaccinated - whoa!


That article does not say 40% were double vaccinated.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,441
4,056
126
Front page of NYTimes today says:

Covid Live Updates: Death Toll in India Likely Beyond 3 Million
A new study of excess deaths in the country during the pandemic produced an estimate between 3.4 million and 4.7 million. That is 10 times the official government count and would make it one of the greatest human tragedies in the nation’s history.

The number of people who have died in the coronavirus pandemic in India so far is likely to exceed three million — nearly 10 times the official Covid-19 death toll — making it one of the worst human tragedies in the nation’s history, according to a new study.

In a comprehensive examination of the true toll of the pandemic in the sprawling nation of 1.4 billion, the Center for Global Development, a Washington research institute, attempted to quantify excess deaths from all causes during the pandemic based on state data, international estimates, serological studies and household surveys.

“True deaths are likely to be in the several millions, not hundreds of thousands, making this arguably India’s worst human tragedy,” said its authors, one of whom is a former chief economic adviser to the government of Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

The official government numbers have been called into question repeatedly. Even as funeral pyres lit up the night sky and bodies washed up on the Ganges River, with death all around, the Indian government was widely underreporting the scale of the devastation.

A chorus of experts have said the country’s official estimates are a gross understatement.
 
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K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
37,505
12,040
136
I scooped up some of the Abbott BinaxNow antigen tests at the store today since this is clearly going to be a thing for the rest of the year and into next.

I'm not worried for myself since I'm fully vaccinated but want to be able to check if I start feeling poorly. Going to be part of my travel kit for now too.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
24,225
1,852
126
Front page of NYTimes today says:

Covid Live Updates: Death Toll in India Likely Beyond 3 Million
A new study of excess deaths in the country during the pandemic produced an estimate between 3.4 million and 4.7 million. That is 10 times the official government count and would make it one of the greatest human tragedies in the nation’s history.

The number of people who have died in the coronavirus pandemic in India so far is likely to exceed three million — nearly 10 times the official Covid-19 death toll — making it one of the worst human tragedies in the nation’s history, according to a new study.

In a comprehensive examination of the true toll of the pandemic in the sprawling nation of 1.4 billion, the Center for Global Development, a Washington research institute, attempted to quantify excess deaths from all causes during the pandemic based on state data, international estimates, serological studies and household surveys.

“True deaths are likely to be in the several millions, not hundreds of thousands, making this arguably India’s worst human tragedy,” said its authors, one of whom is a former chief economic adviser to the government of Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

The official government numbers have been called into question repeatedly. Even as funeral pyres lit up the night sky and bodies washed up on the Ganges River, with death all around, the Indian government was widely underreporting the scale of the devastation.

A chorus of experts have said the country’s official estimates are a gross understatement.
So, the US isn't the #1 country for COVID deaths anymore?
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
37,505
12,040
136
So, the US isn't the #1 country for COVID deaths anymore?
I think everybody (including the US) has understated COVID deaths but the question is by how much. Like I don't believe Iran has suffered fewer deaths per capita than the United States as an obvious one.
 
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pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
8,931
3,823
136
40% of current UK COVID Hospitalizations are those who were double vaccinated - whoa!

View attachment 47407



Not clear to me what that means. Does "unvaccinated people" mean those who have not had any jab at all, or does it include those who have only had the first one, i.e. not _fully_ vaccinated? i.e. are the 40% remaining all fully vaccinated, or are some of them only partially so?

Edit - tried, but I can't even find the figures for how large that group is, i.e. how many people have had one, and only one, jab.
 
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Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
60,834
9,059
126
www.uovalor.com
I have a feeling it will get cancelled or maybe ended early tbh. There's already at least 2 cases and it has not even started yet.

You'd think they would have setup better quarantine/bubble protocols though.

Edit: Wow 67 cases now. :eek:
 

Dr. Detroit

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2004
7,714
294
126
Don't underestimate the MAGA crowd, they will bring us back on top in no time.
This is supposed to be the NON-POLITICAL thread for Corona - take your shit to P&N because there sure seems to be a lot of Democratic voters not getting vaccinated!

Death/hospitalization rates are totally off in the USA and no one is believing the self-reporting coming from any 3rd world country so there is no chance the USA was ever the leadr in deaths per-capita:

Some folks dont trust a vaccine that has not been FDA approved!

African-American don't trust the Govt and its vaccines

34% of African Americans and 39% of Hispanic vaccinated

1626829361692.png


And folks are asking why get vaccinated if it doesn't work? The US Govt is going to need to change its approach, from the vaccine doesnt prvent Covid infections, just redues your chance of hospitalization but as noted in the UK 40% of hospitalization are vaccinated with at least one dose

Also, why get vaccinated if you have already had COVID?
 
Jun 18, 2000
10,887
392
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Watch the video of him speaking!
I did watch it. In the video he says 60% in the hospital is double vaccinated. He later corrected himself saying the 60% is UNVACCINATED. And he never clarified what the remaining 40% is. If 60% is unvaccinated, then the remaining 40% is a mix of single and double doses. It's an important distinction.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
25,962
1,490
126
Re-read my post as it relates to the one I quoted. Ajay was arguing that aspects of vaccine hesitancy can be explained by "reasonably intelligent" people having qualms about an emergency use authorization as opposed to full FDA approval. He also suggested these fears can be attributed to comparing the rapid release of the Covid-19 vaccines vs. historical vaccines. My overall point is that he gives vaccine hesitancy way too much credit for being thoughtful and reasoned.

Technically, I'm not even referring to the science itself. Does a layman understand mRNA or what the spike protein is? Fat chance getting an average Joe to make an informed decision based on the underlying science, even though it is often distilled down for more people to understand.

My hunch is that full FDA approval won't move the needle much. This is the non-political thread, but the evidence is abundant that a lot of vaccine rejection (which is different from hesitancy) boils down to political affiliation.
Exactly. And I think we all know which political side is right and which side is wrong. (But remind me, just in case I got it backwards)


(Wait.... nevermind.... don't ruin the thread)
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
25,962
1,490
126
I did watch it. In the video he says 60% in the hospital is double vaccinated. He later corrected himself saying the 60% is UNVACCINATED. And he never clarified what the remaining 40% is. If 60% is unvaccinated, then the remaining 40% is a mix of single and double doses. It's an important distinction.
What if the remaining 40% was a mix of single, double, and unknown status? I work with numbers for a living....you need better data definitions to understand all classifications before that stuff has any meaning. You know there have to be some folks mixed in there that didn't report what their vax status was.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
10,189
4,223
136
I would prefer we be a little bit careful here. The PROBLEM is the virus. The fact that those not getting the vaccine are unduly burdening our healthcare system isn't a good reason to begin demonizing people.
The non-vaccinated are providing aid and comfort to the enemy.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
10,189
4,223
136
I would like to know what the FDA's plans are for finalizing the acceptance of of the various vaccines. To some reasonably intelligent people, the fact that the FDA still only authorizes the vaccines under an EUA, isn't very comforting. People are familiar with the idea of of vaccines taking a long time to develop; thus this apparent rapid advance has caught some I know off guard. There is a lot of work on education that needs to be done to put some people at ease. Also, it doesn't help that media outlets (even 'sane' ones) are jumping on every study claiming to have found a negative side effect with hyperbolic commentary that makes it seem like 'you may die' from a given vaccine. These claims are usually based on early research results that could be easily negated when a more thorough investigation is completed. No wonder some are running in the opposite direction of being vaccinated.
I really wish people hadn't have pushed the whole "vaccines take forever" crap at the beginning of all of this. I think there were two sides doing it 1) well meaning people that wanted everyone to take precautions and not think a vaccine was days away and 2) people that wanted to push herd immunity, no restrictions.

The fact is, we have been working on coronavirus vaccines since 2003, it took 17 years to get one to market. Not this 10 month BS that is constantly reported on. When we got the mumps vaccine in 4 years, that was from scratch. Moderna was already on contract with the NIH to develop a coronavirus vaccine rapidly against a hypothetical variant, when the pandemic started.

We also have a much better understanding of literally everything to do with viruses, and genes, plus the instrumentation and computers vastly improve productivity than the last time a new vaccine was developed in the US. When the Polio vaccine and Mumps vaccines were invented we didn't even know what DNA or RNA was, much less able to sequence it on the fly.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
10,189
4,223
136
We've started to wear masks indoors because of Delta. I'm not super concerned but why risk it when simple mask will protect us?
Holy shit? You did? Don't take offense, but this surprises me based on how you were talking. I never full shed it, but I am going back to 100% wearing it. Knowing you decided to makes me feel a little less ridiculous about it.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,441
4,056
126
I really wish people hadn't have pushed the whole "vaccines take forever" crap at the beginning of all of this. I think there were two sides doing it 1) well meaning people that wanted everyone to take precautions and not think a vaccine was days away and 2) people that wanted to push herd immunity, no restrictions.

The fact is, we have been working on coronavirus vaccines since 2003, it took 17 years to get one to market. Not this 10 month BS that is constantly reported on. When we got the mumps vaccine in 4 years, that was from scratch. Moderna was already on contract with the NIH to develop a coronavirus vaccine rapidly against a hypothetical variant, when the pandemic started.

We also have a much better understanding of literally every to do with viruses, and genes, plus the instrumentation and computers vastly improve productivity than the last time a new vaccine was developed in the US. When the Polio vaccine and Mumps vaccines were invented we didn't even know what DNA or RNA was, much less able to sequence it on the fly.
Yes, the machinery for mRNA vaccines was already developed. They were going to use it for SARS but SARS disappeared early on and a vaccine wasn't necessary. When SARS-CoV-2 came along in late 2019 we had rounded 3rd base already in getting mRNA vaccines to production and testing. Most of what had to be done was figuring out what we wanted to immunize against and they figured the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2 would be it and it didn't take long to determine what went into the lipid nanoparticles for the vaccines. Most of the time involved testing, and that on an unprecedented scale because time was of the essence. But they didn't skimp on testing. Doubters shat on everything but the vaccines are extremely effective and relatively very safe. EUA's were deserved. IMO, people who were doubting just because the vaccines weren't yet fully approved, unless they had particular personal medical concerns, were stupid and uninformed.

There are very promising and potentially great uses the mRNA technology can be used for going forward. I saw a great video on this around maybe 9-12 months ago.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,441
4,056
126
Holy shit? You did? Don't take offense, but this surprises me based on how you were talking. I never full shed it, but I am going back to 100% wearing it. Knowing you decided to makes me feel a little less ridiculous about it.
@ponyo changed his tune when people here explained the prevalence of long haulers' sad and often rather horrible travails, and rightly so. I don't and haven't felt the least ridiculous at any time masking up since early 2020.
 
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pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
8,931
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@ponyo changed his tune when people here explained the prevalence of long haulers' travails, and rightly so. I don't and haven't felt the least ridiculous at any time masking up since early 2020.
Most masks are only about protecting those around you, not the wearer, though. That, apparently, is why it's so hard to establish conclusively that they work - it's pretty hard to construct a ramdomized, controlled, trial for something that isn't about protecting the wearer, but everyone around them.

Personally, especially now all legal mask-rules have been lifted here, I would only feel safe if I had some sort of full-head air-filtration that was at the level of cos-playing as Darth Vader.

If I could 'use the force' to strangle any covidiot who got too close, that would be good as well.
 
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