NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,155
21,281
136
to my understanding Pfizer is still really, really good at preventing hospitalization & death vs the delta variant.
You are less protected from becoming sick however you still have strong protection vs hospitalization/death which is good enough to me.
Regardless if a booster is needed for moderna I will gladly get it.

If the data shows Pfizer needs a booster, I will gladly get it. I am not naive, I know that Pfizer looks at a booster as yet another shit ton of revenue, so I will see the data and see how people analyze the data, but if it makes sense, shot in arm for sure.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,109
136
If the data shows Pfizer needs a booster, I will gladly get it. I am not naive, I know that Pfizer looks at a booster as yet another shit ton of revenue, so I will see the data and see how people analyze the data, but if it makes sense, shot in arm for sure.
^This. FDA and CDC recommendation will determine what I do. I'm in a higher risk class, so I'll jump on it if it shows improved efficacy.
 
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Dr. Detroit

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2004
8,262
724
126
This is correct, but the Delta variant is really altering the reality "on the ground." Most of America assumes the pandemic is over in the U.S., which is ironic considering the vax numbers in many Southern states are really poor. To be fair, it's not exactly "robust" even in California, which is a top-12 state in percentage vaccinated. You'd have to look at a few NE states to see where they've achieved herd immunity, or are damn close to it. The vaccination rate in the Bay Area looks a lot like New England, while in SoCal it's very average.

Dr. Scott Gottlieb said that Delta is just getting started domestically, and with exponential growth, the infections will continue to climb for weeks. He predicts the peak of this surge will be in September; and at this point, there's little reason to believe the winter won't have another level of surge in regions with low vaccination rates.

34-million in America have had Covid - so in theory, they should have the same protection as those vaccinated? Between vaccines + positive cases, how far are we away from herd immunity?

This statistic shows Covid cases as a % of population and surprised to see not a significant variance once you toss out hte top 5 lowest/highest. Basically between 8-12% by state.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,109
136
This statistic shows Covid cases as a % of population and surprised to see not a significant variance once you toss out hte top 5 lowest/highest. Basically between 8-12% by state.
Gee, throw out 20% of the data (top 5, bottom 5) and there isn't much variance. I wonder why? ;)
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,494
8,764
136
34-million in America have had Covid - so in theory, they should have the same protection as those vaccinated? Between vaccines + positive cases, how far are we away from herd immunity?

This statistic shows Covid cases as a % of population and surprised to see not a significant variance once you toss out hte top 5 lowest/highest. Basically between 8-12% by state.
Post covid immunization is not as good as post vaccination immunization, not nearly, is what the experts have said. However, just one shot of an mRNA vaccine (and probably the others) confers a high level of immunity to people who have had the virus.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,901
2,846
136
Gee, throw out 20% of the data (top 5, bottom 5) and there isn't much variance. I wonder why? ;)
The difference is nearly 3 times!

Among those states that have fully vaccinated less than half its residents, the average Covid-19 case rate was 11 new cases per 100,000 people last week, compared to 4 per 100,000 among states that have fully vaccinated more than half its residents, according to a CNN analysis of data from Johns Hopkins University.

Also interestingly, Canada has just caught up to the U.S. in % population fully vaccinated. Which is pretty striking considering they started much later than we did.

Source:
 
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Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,531
12,647
126
www.anyf.ca
I feel the booster might be a bit of a tricky thing, Pfizer probably wants to be extra sure the vaccine continues to work, it's an easy way to make sure, and it also means more revenue. So yeah, I personally rather wait to see if there's more data, I suppose that can be done via antibody testing on people to see how they change over time?

I think even if there is a need for a booster it will be at least a year before we get it. Heck we're not even done administering the first shots yet.

Then there's that lady that accidentally was given an entire vial. I think she's good for life and anyone she touches is vaccinated on the spot lol.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,284
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Just heard on the radio, in FL and somewhere else (I missed the beginning)
“Nearly all people currently on ventilators are unvaccinated”
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,494
8,764
136
Just heard on the radio, in FL and somewhere else (I missed the beginning)
“Nearly all people currently on ventilators are unvaccinated”
Current head of the CDC (Rochelle Wallensky, M.D.) says we now have a "pandemic of the unvaccinated." The mantra must be, if you're not vaccinated YOU are the problem.
 
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manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,901
2,846
136
I was certain and am still certain that history will show the mRNA vaccines will be the gold standard for vaccines against Covid. And the populations that use the higher ration of mRNA vaccines will fair the best.
Good study published in Nature Medicine two months ago; Ars did a very readable explanation for non-academics. I'll link to the paper's chart comparing the vaccines and natural infection (but scroll up for the Ars reporting):

I'm not qualified to dispense medical advice, but it looks like you want either mRNA vaccine or the yet-unapproved Novavax candidate. Sputnik V is good too if you think Putin didn't game the trial...

If you were unlucky enough to have taken Sinovac, you need an mRNA booster about now.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,109
136
Current head of the CDC (Rochelle Wallensky, M.D.) says we now have a "pandemic of the unvaccinated." The mantra must be, if you're not vaccinated YOU are the problem.
I would prefer we be a little bit careful here. The PROBLEM is the virus. The fact that those not getting the vaccine are unduly burdening our healthcare system isn't a good reason to begin demonizing people.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,109
136
I would like to know what the FDA's plans are for finalizing the acceptance of of the various vaccines. To some reasonably intelligent people, the fact that the FDA still only authorizes the vaccines under an EUA, isn't very comforting. People are familiar with the idea of of vaccines taking a long time to develop; thus this apparent rapid advance has caught some I know off guard. There is a lot of work on education that needs to be done to put some people at ease. Also, it doesn't help that media outlets (even 'sane' ones) are jumping on every study claiming to have found a negative side effect with hyperbolic commentary that makes it seem like 'you may die' from a given vaccine. These claims are usually based on early research results that could be easily negated when a more thorough investigation is completed. No wonder some are running in the opposite direction of being vaccinated.
 
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manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,901
2,846
136
I would like to know what the FDA's plans are for finalizing the acceptance of of the various vaccines. To some reasonably intelligent people, the fact that the FDA still only authorizes the vaccines under an EUA, isn't very comforting. People are familiar with the idea of of vaccines taking a long time to develop; thus this apparent rapid advance has caught some I know off guard. There is a lot of work on education that needs to be done to put some people at ease. Also, it doesn't help that media outlets (even 'sane' ones) are jumping on every study claiming to have found a negative side effect with hyperbolic commentary that makes it seem like 'you may die' from a given vaccine. These claims are usually based on early research results that could be easily negated when a more thorough investigation is completed. No wonder some are running in the opposite direction of being vaccinated.
I suspect the correlation between education level (a measure of intelligence) and vaccine hesitancy to be fairly low. I doubt that most people are familiar with how long it takes to develop vaccines. Without looking it up, I don't know off-hand. I can recall it being said the fastest a vaccine ever made it "to market" was 4-odd years, but couldn't tell you what is typical. If I still don't know after a year of constant Covid-19 news (and this thread), I highly doubt the average Joe could tell you beyond "it takes a long time." Also, that ignores the fact that mRNA has been under research for a solid decade, and the BioNTech and Moderna vaccines represent a rapid productizing of that R&D. It's not like we started from zero knowledge in early 2020 and arrived at alien technology 11 months later. :p

To answer your question on full FDA approval:

As Dr. Fauci put it, if the current level of vaccine hesitancy existed decades ago, polio would still be a thing.

The following clip ties into all of this:

 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,109
136
Thanks, hopefully that will push a reasonable number of people off the fence - so long as they don't live their lives on YouTube and Facebook.
I realize some of this negative thinking about vaccines is endemic. As the Sagan quote points out, ordinary people can longer understand technology and public servants are no longer trusted.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,688
2,810
126
We've started to wear masks indoors because of Delta. I'm not super concerned but why risk it when simple mask will protect us?

There's some talk South Korea could reinstate the mandatory 14 day quarantine for all inbound travelers regardless of exemption. I already made plans and booked all my flights, hotels, and rental car for my trip in September. I hope I won't have to cancel but if covid cases stay elevated or rise even further, there's a chance the SK government cancel all exemption requests. That will suck.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,688
2,810
126
Canada to let fully vaccinated Americans in for non-essential travel next month.

Wonderful! I have a connection flight in Toronto for my trip to SK in September. I was really worried because Air Canada changed return flight so I only have like 1 hour 20 minutes between transfer. Which would be fine if I didn't have to go through US Customs in Toronto, Canada on my return flight from South Korea. And customs line is always a crapshoot how short or long that line is. And if Canada still had their stupid US traveler ban, I would've had to sleep at the airport if I missed my connection flight back to the US. Now I can go outside the airport and sleep at a hotel if I miss my connection. Makes me feel much better I don't have to be stressed about making that ultra tight connection no matter what.

Plus now, I can go skiing in Canada in the winter.

Oh great we are going to get home made "vaccine certificate" morons.
I'm coming to visit you.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,155
21,281
136
I wish the morons would get vaccinated just so we can resist these variants that will inevitably keep coming.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
97,031
16,248
126
Wonderful! I have a connection flight in Toronto for my trip to SK in September. I was really worried because Air Canada changed return flight so I only have like 1 hour 20 minutes between transfer. Which would be fine if I didn't have to go through US Customs in Toronto, Canada on my return flight from South Korea. And customs line is always a crapshoot how short or long that line is. And if Canada still had their stupid US traveler ban, I would've had to sleep at the airport if I missed my connection flight back to the US. Now I can go outside the airport and sleep at a hotel if I miss my connection. Makes me feel much better I don't have to be stressed about making that ultra tight connection no matter what.

Plus now, I can go skiing in Canada in the winter.


I'm coming to visit you.
I keep my online life distinct from my real life.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,316
10,814
136
I suspect the correlation between education level (a measure of intelligence) and vaccine hesitancy to be fairly low.

You're arguing there's "very little correlation" between failing to understand the science behind vaccines and being uneducated/ignorant?

Really? :p :D
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,901
2,846
136
You're arguing there's "very little correlation" between failing to understand the science behind vaccines and being uneducated/ignorant?

Really? :p :D
Re-read my post as it relates to the one I quoted. Ajay was arguing that aspects of vaccine hesitancy can be explained by "reasonably intelligent" people having qualms about an emergency use authorization as opposed to full FDA approval. He also suggested these fears can be attributed to comparing the rapid release of the Covid-19 vaccines vs. historical vaccines. My overall point is that he gives vaccine hesitancy way too much credit for being thoughtful and reasoned.

Technically, I'm not even referring to the science itself. Does a layman understand mRNA or what the spike protein is? Fat chance getting an average Joe to make an informed decision based on the underlying science, even though it is often distilled down for more people to understand.

My hunch is that full FDA approval won't move the needle much. This is the non-political thread, but the evidence is abundant that a lot of vaccine rejection (which is different from hesitancy) boils down to political affiliation.
 
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