NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

Page 606 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,155
21,281
136
"The real deep south" are filled with a huge "minority" of Hispanics, Blacks, etc..(unlike racist northern states that are disproportionately white). So.... try using facts instead of your racist stereotyping next time?

Deep South symbolism:

Confederacy-supporters-display-their-loyalty-to-Confederate-flag-South-Carolina.jpg


Northern Symbolism:

PXL_20210705_222421322.jpg



any questions?

You have taken the bait and engaged a "political post" with an even more graphic and pointed one of your own. Don't repeat. Report such a post, don't compound the error.

Perknose
Forum Director
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: Zorba

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,237
37,643
136
Is it a reasonable expectation? I'd be in favor. I don't know the ins/outs of how this would be done. I suppose if there's substance to this idea, it's being discussed deeply and at length behind closed doors at the present time.

The University of California mandated everyone involved with them get vaccinated who is eligible and doesn't have specific valid reasons not to, as of yesterday afternoon as I understand it. Hey, some diseases have mandated vaccinations, right? Why not covid-19?

Conceivably the Feds could require all fed employees to be vaccinated, anybody entering federal property, anyone using interstate transport, and anyone re-entering the country.

This would also give the states inclined some cover to implement their own requirements which could likely be broader.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zorba

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,494
8,764
136
Conceivably the Feds could require all fed employees to be vaccinated, anybody entering federal property, anyone using interstate transport, and anyone re-entering the country.

This would also give the states inclined some cover to implement their own requirements which could likely be broader.
The crazy thing is how covid-19, seemingly most everything involving it, has been "politicized." Saying that seems mistaken, though. You hear this all the time, you've heard it since almost the beginning of the pandemic. What strikes me as terrible is that partisan politics has infiltrated how we deal with this threat to human health. It should not be so.

Where would we be without scientific evaluation of this? If you don't believe in science, what can you believe in?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Captante

njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,331
251
126
Efficacy is dropping in Israel with Pfizer: https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...n-against-infections-still-strong-2021-07-05/

It's down to 64%, however severe cases are still down 93%. So it seems if you go about with restrictions removed, you are still more than likely going to come down with COVID. Especially as Delta will lead to another variant, and so on. It's good that it's keeping people alive, but this trajectory is pretty unsettling. ~60% will turn into ~40% with another variant and then pretty much useless at preventing infection.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: Muse

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,109
136
Conceivably the Feds could require all fed employees to be vaccinated, anybody entering federal property, anyone using interstate transport, and anyone re-entering the country.

This would also give the states inclined some cover to implement their own requirements which could likely be broader.
Well, the shit will hit the fan if that happens. Are any countries mandating vaccines?
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,914
2,720
136
Once again - this has been said plenty of times now... A vaccine is not intended to prevent someone from getting the virus.

Its main intention is to prevent someone from dying or having MAJOR (permanent) complications from it. So far - from what I've heard world wide is that is a 100% success.

Don't let fearmongering deceive you.



Also, have no idea - nor do i care about who that is. Celebrities speaking on health is a laughable subject.
It's obvious to me. Efficacy is never 100%. So there will be cases.
I always thought that. I'm also aware that most people are not because wishful thinking and motivated reasoning.

He's a reporter for NFL Network. Not a big celeb.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Captante

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,914
2,720
136
Is it a reasonable expectation? I'd be in favor. I don't know the ins/outs of how this would be done. I suppose if there's substance to this idea, it's being discussed deeply and at length behind closed doors at the present time.

The University of California mandated everyone involved with them get vaccinated who is eligible and doesn't have specific valid reasons not to, as of yesterday afternoon as I understand it. Hey, some diseases have mandated vaccinations, right? Why not covid-19?
It would set a dangerous precedent of "For Your Own Good" babysitting. That's the matter with law. Once something is established once as a valid mechanism, someone will try to do it again in the future. Private entities usually do not have the scale nor have as wide of a power to coerce or abuse.

It's not like government is an omnibenevolent entity that wants to save every life. It's a machine that doesn't like revenue drains.

The blacks have vaccine hesitancy amongst them precisely because of governmental abuse of power.
 
Dec 10, 2005
25,094
8,380
136
Efficacy is dropping in Israel with Pfizer: https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...n-against-infections-still-strong-2021-07-05/

It's down to 64%, however severe cases are still down 93%. So it seems if you go about with restrictions removed, you are still more than likely going to come down with COVID. Especially as Delta will lead to another variant, and so on. It's good that it's keeping people alive, but this trajectory is pretty unsettling. ~60% will turn into ~40% with another variant and then pretty much useless at preventing infection.
The vaccines were never really tested for complete prevention. They were mainly tested at preventing symptomatic disease and keeping people out of the hospital and alive. The vaccines, for some variants, seem destined to maybe turn covid from a rolling the dice with death to something more akin to a cold.

Obviously, lots of room for improvement, and keep development going on ensuring continued protection, but there are also a ton of people left to get vaccinated.
 
  • Like
Reactions: K1052

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,282
10,879
136
"The real deep south" are filled with a huge "minority" of Hispanics, Blacks, etc..(unlike racist northern states that are disproportionately white). So.... try using facts instead of your racist stereotyping next time?
I've been there, a lot, the states are ran by a bunch of ignorant white people. The minorities that live there get very little actual representation due to gerrymandering and voter suppression.

Not sure why you brought race into it at all, though, since I said nothing about race. Maybe I should've just said that they are all even more conservative hellholes than Oklahoma than using the term redneck, which I also use to describe myself.

Either way, take the political trolling to PN.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,282
10,879
136
It would set a dangerous precedent of "For Your Own Good" babysitting. That's the matter with law. Once something is established once as a valid mechanism, someone will try to do it again in the future. Private entities usually do not have the scale nor have as wide of a power to coerce or abuse.

It's not like government is an omnibenevolent entity that wants to save every life. It's a machine that doesn't like revenue drains.

The blacks have vaccine hesitancy amongst them precisely because of governmental abuse of power.
Yeah, back in the day the government just went and vaccinated whole schools, pretty sure without getting parental consent. Tons of vaccines are already mandates for kids to go to school or be in the military. This is not a new slippery slope at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Muse

Spacehead

Lifer
Jun 2, 2002
13,067
9,858
136
Efficacy is dropping in Israel with Pfizer: https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...n-against-infections-still-strong-2021-07-05/

It's down to 64%, however severe cases are still down 93%. So it seems if you go about with restrictions removed, you are still more than likely going to come down with COVID. Especially as Delta will lead to another variant, and so on. It's good that it's keeping people alive, but this trajectory is pretty unsettling. ~60% will turn into ~40% with another variant and then pretty much useless at preventing infection.
About 60% of Israel's 9.3 million population have received at least one shot of Pfizer's vaccine ...
I wonder what percentage has had the 2 doses? The other 40%?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zorba

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,237
37,643
136
Well, the shit will hit the fan if that happens. Are any countries mandating vaccines?

For the general population I think only a couple like Indonesia. A lot of countries are requiring healthcare workers to get it.

Macron probably has gone the farthest threatening that the French will be basically not able so do anything without proof of vaccination. Looks like it’s working for them since a few million French people immediately signed up for doses. We’re pretty much out of carrots so time for the stick.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ajay and Zorba

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,282
10,879
136
The vaccines were never really tested for complete prevention. They were mainly tested at preventing symptomatic disease and keeping people out of the hospital and alive. The vaccines, for some variants, seem destined to maybe turn covid from a rolling the dice with death to something more akin to a cold.

Obviously, lots of room for improvement, and keep development going on ensuring continued protection, but there are also a ton of people left to get vaccinated.
I saw a "modeling" study awhile back that basically predicted once we got through the first round of exposure with COVID it'd likely before like the existing coronavirus colds. Where most people are exposed very young and get a cold, then every few years you just get a cold from it, but since you've seen it before you never get that sick.

Hard to know if it was wishful thinking or real, but seems to be how it is working with the vaccinated.
 

bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
6,914
2,290
146
Just saw on DW news that several countries in Africa are in crisis with the new Delta variant.


Countries in Asia are in the same boat, in deep trouble with the variant.

More than 13,000 new COVID-19 cases in Malaysia in 3rd straight day of record numbers - CNA (channelnewsasia.com)

Grappling with 'worst-case scenario', Indonesia faces more COVID-19 pain - CNA (channelnewsasia.com)

Indonesia overtakes India as Asia's new Covid-19 epicenter - CNN


Oh, and the Olympics is only a little over a week to go, July 23rd.
Yep saw this on the news last night. It's ripping its way through certain parts of Asia.
It's pretty bad in Myanmar right now since the military ousted the civilian government. Rumor has it that China is closing the border in certain hotspots. Pretty scary stuff.

 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,914
2,720
136
I saw a "modeling" study awhile back that basically predicted once we got through the first round of exposure with COVID it'd likely before like the existing coronavirus colds. Where most people are exposed very young and get a cold, then every few years you just get a cold from it, but since you've seen it before you never get that sick.

Hard to know if it was wishful thinking or real, but seems to be how it is working with the vaccinated.
Such optimistic outlooks are once again some wishful thinking.
Two years, two times I've lost four months of "high function" in the brain and physically. If I lose four months every year, I'm not going to get jabs to beat the virus to the chase, but I'm not holding my breath for symptom free. I'm ready to plan the year with the expectation that I won't be 100% for a quarter of it.
 

Dr. Detroit

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2004
8,262
724
126
Cases in the UK hit a 6-month high today with over 50K. Delta variant is no joke and the vaccines are not as effective.

More than 46.1 million people in the UK have had their first dose of a coronavirus vaccine - 87.6% of adults, while more than 35.5 million - 67.5% of adults - have had both doses. UK Top 5 in the world for vax rates.

1100 Delta/Gamma cases in Florida and 417 in California.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,155
21,281
136
Cases in the UK hit a 6-month high today with over 50K. Delta variant is no joke and the vaccines are not as effective.

More than 46.1 million people in the UK have had their first dose of a coronavirus vaccine - 87.6% of adults, while more than 35.5 million - 67.5% of adults - have had both doses. UK Top 5 in the world for vax rates.

1100 Delta/Gamma cases in Florida and 417 in California.

I was certain and am still certain that history will show the mRNA vaccines will be the gold standard for vaccines against Covid. And the populations that use the higher ration of mRNA vaccines will fair the best.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,237
37,643
136
The goal for all the vaccines was to keep people out of the hospital and out of the grave, which is what they're still doing. Basically everybody in hospital for COVID is unvaccinated.

Some studies are indicating that mixing shots might confer even better protection. Boosting people who got one shot of adenovirus vaccine with an mRNA shot could have some real utility. The mRNA technology is certainly more agile though since you don't need to build a new cell line and instead just change a bit of code in a computer.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,494
8,764
136
It would set a dangerous precedent of "For Your Own Good" babysitting. That's the matter with law. Once something is established once as a valid mechanism, someone will try to do it again in the future. Private entities usually do not have the scale nor have as wide of a power to coerce or abuse.

It's not like government is an omnibenevolent entity that wants to save every life. It's a machine that doesn't like revenue drains.
Dangerous precedent? No, this is wrong. There are many diseases that you have to be vaccinated against in the United States.

The blacks have vaccine hesitancy amongst them precisely because of governmental abuse of power.
However, in this case they're wrong, and it isn't just themselves they (and any) are endangering by refusing to get vaccinated, they are endangering anyone they might (and in many cases will) pass the virus to. They are part of the problem, part of the new pandemic, which as the head of the CDC just said, is the pandemic of the unvaccinated. These vaccines have been extensively tested. Yes, they aren't perfect but the benefits far outweigh the risks. The blacks who are hesitant are by and large ignorant or lazy or some combination. There are a lot of phonies out there pretending to know what's up with this and blacks are not immune from that.

Sure, governments are notoriously problematical, but that doesn't mean we don't need them, we do. Governments are there to do things that must be done but that other human agencies are incapable of doing. Blacks know this, the government is filled with them. Mistrust of government is no excuse to not get vaccinated against covid-19. People have to take personal responsibility for themselves, their beliefs and their actions. Blacks who have informed themselves are getting vaccinated.

Vaccine hesitant people are fucking up MY LIFE! Yours too. That's right, they are the root of the pandemic going forward (at least right now) in the USA. It's the pandemic of those who are unvaccinated and it's a threat to even the vaccinated because of the breakthrough infections as well as allowing SARS-CoV-2 to further mutate to even more problematical forms.
 
Last edited:

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,674
8,578
136
Cases in the UK hit a 6-month high today with over 50K. Delta variant is no joke and the vaccines are not as effective.

More than 46.1 million people in the UK have had their first dose of a coronavirus vaccine - 87.6% of adults, while more than 35.5 million - 67.5% of adults - have had both doses. UK Top 5 in the world for vax rates.

1100 Delta/Gamma cases in Florida and 417 in California.


The counter-argument (and I don't know how much I buy this, myself) is that we (the UK) are doing far more testing now than in the previous waves. Also, I haven't seen any definitive claim that the vaccines are less effective against Delta (other than people who have only had the first jab, where it seems it is indeed less effective than with previous variants). It seems as if the increasing cases are largely in young people who haven't been offered the vaccine yet.

I still wonder if the sheer weight of cases might eventually lead to increases in hospitalisations and deaths, given time. And also I wonder if there might be something parituclarly 'toxic' or 'dangerous' about a situation where half the population is vaccinated and half isn't, so the virus can spread freely in the latter and get multiple opportunities to cross over into the the former population and mutate so as to spread there as well.

The fact that there's also a sizable population of people who have only had one jab, who will have _some_ antibody protection but not enough to completely shut the virus down, also makes me wonder, with no expert knowledge, whether that might be a particularly good way to give the virus a chance to come up with a way to overcome the vaccine protection? (Kind of akin to how taking incomplete courses of anti-biotics can produce anti-biotic-resistant bacteria, maybe? Maybe incomplete protection could be worse than no protection at all in that respect?)

One problem in working out what's going on is that at least the site I mostly look at (worldometers) doesn't show you graphs of changing test rates over time, or of 'percentage of tests that are found positive'.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zorba

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,494
8,764
136
I was certain and am still certain that history will show the mRNA vaccines will be the gold standard for vaccines against Covid. And the populations that use the higher ration of mRNA vaccines will fair the best.
I feel/felt the same and it's one reason I was so anxious to get an mRNA jab the minute it was available to me (J&J had just come online at the time), in early Feb. 2021. I will be no less motivated to get a booster if and when I can, EUA or full approval. If nothing else it'll be updated to counter Delta variants.
 
Last edited:

Dr. Detroit

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2004
8,262
724
126
Also, I haven't seen any definitive claim that the vaccines are less effective against Delta (other than people who have only had the first jab, where it seems it is indeed less effective than with previous variants).

Pfizer vaccine, which most of UK/Europe used, has its issues.

July 8, 2021 -- Pfizer announced Thursday that it will seek FDA authorization for a booster shot of its COVID-19 vaccine as the company acknowledges its two-dose vaccine has shown waning effectiveness against the Delta variant.

 
Feb 4, 2009
35,283
16,766
136
Pfizer vaccine, which most of UK/Europe used, has its issues.

July 8, 2021 -- Pfizer announced Thursday that it will seek FDA authorization for a booster shot of its COVID-19 vaccine as the company acknowledges its two-dose vaccine has shown waning effectiveness against the Delta variant.


to my understanding Pfizer is still really, really good at preventing hospitalization & death vs the delta variant.
You are less protected from becoming sick however you still have strong protection vs hospitalization/death which is good enough to me.
Regardless if a booster is needed for moderna I will gladly get it.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,901
2,846
136
About 60% of Israel's 9.3 million population have received at least one shot of Pfizer's vaccine ...
I wonder what percentage has had the 2 doses? The other 40%?
Err no, that's not how the math works. The other 40% have received no Covid-19 vaccine shots. This may sound a bit high, but remember there's no authorization for under age-12. Their vaccination program has been highly successful to date.

Israel has the longest Covid-19 vax campaign of any nation, because they were first in line to buy vaccine from Pfizer. There is a 3 week gap between first and second doses. So if 60% of their population has had at least 1 dose, the number that are fully vaccinated is already above 55%. Currently the U.S. is at 48% of total population has been fully vaccinated, which sounds good but see below.

to my understanding Pfizer is still really, really good at preventing hospitalization & death vs the delta variant.
You are less protected from becoming sick however you still have strong protection vs hospitalization/death which is good enough to me.
Regardless if a booster is needed for moderna I will gladly get it.
This is correct, but the Delta variant is really altering the reality "on the ground." Most of America assumes the pandemic is over in the U.S., which is ironic considering the vax numbers in many Southern states are really poor. To be fair, it's not exactly "robust" even in California, which is a top-12 state in percentage vaccinated. You'd have to look at a few NE states to see where they've achieved herd immunity, or are damn close to it. The vaccination rate in the Bay Area looks a lot like New England, while in SoCal it's very average.

Dr. Scott Gottlieb said that Delta is just getting started domestically, and with exponential growth, the infections will continue to climb for weeks. He predicts the peak of this surge will be in September; and at this point, there's little reason to believe the winter won't have another level of surge in regions with low vaccination rates.