NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

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Dec 10, 2005
25,094
8,380
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I heard the J&J might be available to all adults soon. That one is similar to AZ right? Might go for that one if it becomes available to me. Or would I be better off waiting for mRNA ones?
The J&J vaccine also uses an adenovirus vector to deliver the spike protein DNA to some of your cells, so that they can then make the spike protein for your immune system to react against. The nice thing about J&J is convenience - one and done.

As for which vaccine to get - get whatever is available to you. There is no head-to-head data to say that one vaccine is better than any other vaccine. And you can't compare across the trials, as they measured efficacy differently, had different monitoring schemes, and had different patient populations (particularly for the J&J trial, which was run later, when more variants were in the general population of the trial countries). At the end of the day, all the vaccines protected against death and severe covid.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,531
12,647
126
www.anyf.ca
Oh right I forgot it's only one dose that may be a plus as I feel there will be a lot of issues getting 2nd doses at the rate things are going, lot of them will be way off schedule by months. But yeah I'm not too caught up on picking one, but if given the choice it's good to know if there's any pro/cons. The Moderna and Pfzer one won't be available to me any time soon so I may go for this one once it is available.

At the end of the day I'm more concerned about not spreading it, and vaccine will prevent that right? Like say I still get the virus but I'm not negatively impacted by it because of the vaccine, can I spread the virus to someone else during that time and if they are not vaccinated could they get a bad case? Or does it mostly stop me from being contagious?

Whatever the rules say I want to get back to visiting friends etc again but only if it will actually be safe for them.
 
Dec 10, 2005
25,094
8,380
136
Oh right I forgot it's only one dose that may be a plus as I feel there will be a lot of issues getting 2nd doses at the rate things are going, lot of them will be way off schedule by months. But yeah I'm not too caught up on picking one, but if given the choice it's good to know if there's any pro/cons. The Moderna and Pfzer one won't be available to me any time soon so I may go for this one once it is available.

At the end of the day I'm more concerned about not spreading it, and vaccine will prevent that right? Like say I still get the virus but I'm not negatively impacted by it because of the vaccine, can I spread the virus to someone else during that time and if they are not vaccinated could they get a bad case? Or does it mostly stop me from being contagious?

Whatever the rules say I want to get back to visiting friends etc again but only if it will actually be safe for them.
None of the vaccines were tested to determine if they can stop the spread, though, it is somewhat reasonable to assume that you are probably less likely to spread it if you're vaccinated and you do get infected. The general recommendation seems to be along the lines of: If you get vaccinated, you should still try to take some precautions (eg, try to be socially distanced, don't spend too much time indoors without a mask in public), but it's okay to start hanging around other fully vaccinated people.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,316
10,814
136
I heard the J&J might be available to all adults soon. That one is similar to AZ right? Might go for that one if it becomes available to me. Or would I be better off waiting for mRNA ones?


Tough question ... I guess it depends on how long of a wait.

If it's not that long I would.

(little/no difference between the two mRNA's in terms of immunity)
 

Spacehead

Lifer
Jun 2, 2002
13,067
9,858
136
At the end of the day I'm more concerned about not spreading it, and vaccine will prevent that right? Like say I still get the virus but I'm not negatively impacted by it because of the vaccine, can I spread the virus to someone else during that time and if they are not vaccinated could they get a bad case? Or does it mostly stop me from being contagious?

Whatever the rules say I want to get back to visiting friends etc again but only if it will actually be safe for them.
Here's an article i came across about this topic.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/covid-vaccines-probably-prevent-spread/
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
15,360
13,682
146
Pretty good 'current state'. US is looking okay, but really needs to step up the vaccine effort. In other news, we're in no way, shape, or form doing well across the globe. Last week was the highest case load so far, and only looking to go up.

Do not let your guard down. We're in day 2 of the battle of thermopylae.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,389
1,778
126
I would say this....if the vaccine prevents infection (for a while), you're not going to have an active virus in your system to replicate and ultimately spread....as long as your antigens shut it down. COVID is an airborne virus, so masks help....but not staying in one place for very long also helps. Example.....traveling through an airport or grocery store....you're moving....distance and you should be ok....especially if everyone wears masks.

Pertaining to the US and not developing countries, I think it's unfortunate that so many people choose not to vaccinate when it's available. Even worse is how they shift their opinions when the idiots get sick. I feel like at some point, once kids have the opportunity to vaccinate, I say we open everything back up 100% and let Murphy's law do its thing. My patience are running low on the ignorance and defiance.

I'm hopeful that countries like India can get things under control ASAP. I don't want to see more mutations as a result of these widespread outbreaks, but we know it's coming and hopefully the vaccine boosters will continue to monitor the various strains in the hotspots to stay on top of it.
 

snoopy7548

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2005
8,131
5,156
146
Just got my second dose of Moderna! I've been drinking water like crazy today and I'll take a Tylenol soon. Hopefully I don't feel sick tomorrow; might just not work and take a nap instead today in order to be safe... :cool:
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,389
1,778
126
Just got my second dose of Moderna! I've been drinking water like crazy today and I'll take a Tylenol soon. Hopefully I don't feel sick tomorrow; might just not work and take a nap instead today in order to be safe... :cool:
Good luck. I hope you don't get zapped. Fatigue hit me like 22 hours after I got the second shot.....headaches hit me like 6 hours after that.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,732
5,470
136
Reduce Reuse Recycle! :eek:

Further proof to me about how incentives rule the world. In my head, I can't reconcile the fact that a human being would do that to another human being, but (1) there's a broad range of personality disorders available, from sociopaths to psychopaths, and (2) incentive-wise, a lot of people are just in really terrible, crappy situations with limited options & are trying to make the best of it. Or in this case, some people just make terrible choices with zero empathy for others, as that article stated that they're investigating whether one of the suspects used the excess money to build himself a "lavish house". Some people just lack the gene to be decent to other people, whether by choice or by nature. Which is downright scary.
 
Dec 10, 2005
25,094
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I've seen some articles lately talking about patent waivers for the vaccines, and some activists are cheering it on, yet it really misses the big picture. It's not patents holding back production, it's specialized manufacturing capacity and tech transfer that is. One article I saw a few weeks ago cited Moderna - all their people capable of facilitating tech transfers are already booked up. And the NYT, in their walkthrough of how the Pfizer vaccine is made, showed how the lipid/mRNA mixers are pretty bespoke and they haven't tried to scale it up much because of the massive effort required to revalidate the whole process with a larger/different instrument.

Freeing up the patent without having anyone available to facilitate kicking off production in new facilities with new teams is like giving someone a picture of a fancy dinner, giving them the list of ingredients and the directions, then telling them to make *exactly* the meal in picture.

And let's not get started in all the QC required. You want to really undermine confidence in vaccines: allow anyone to just do it. You'll have the Emergent mess, with even greater potential that stuff actually gets distributed instead of caught.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,282
10,879
136
I've seen some articles lately talking about patent waivers for the vaccines, and some activists are cheering it on, yet it really misses the big picture. It's not patents holding back production, it's specialized manufacturing capacity and tech transfer that is. One article I saw a few weeks ago cited Moderna - all their people capable of facilitating tech transfers are already booked up. And the NYT, in their walkthrough of how the Pfizer vaccine is made, showed how the lipid/mRNA mixers are pretty bespoke and they haven't tried to scale it up much because of the massive effort required to revalidate the whole process with a larger/different instrument.

Freeing up the patent without having anyone available to facilitate kicking off production in new facilities with new teams is like giving someone a picture of a fancy dinner, giving them the list of ingredients and the directions, then telling them to make *exactly* the meal in picture.

And let's not get started in all the QC required. You want to really undermine confidence in vaccines: allow anyone to just do it. You'll have the Emergent mess, with even greater potential that stuff actually gets distributed instead of caught.
I agree, it seems like the patent waivers are mostly a red herring.
 

njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,331
251
126
I had my second dose of Moderna yesterday. The only thing I noticed is that upon going bed it felt like I had taken NyQuil. But then my 2 year old son woke us up every 1-2 hours last night, and then snored loudly while co-sleeping, so I'm pretty wrecked today mostly from that. It was the worst night of sleep I've had since he was a newborn.

Other than just been massively tired today, I think I feel otherwise fine. No fever, chills, body aches or anything like that. Which I'm almost surprised by because of how bad that night of sleep was. Hopefully it stays that way and I sleep well tonight...
 
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snoopy7548

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2005
8,131
5,156
146
I was feeling alright until I decided it would be a good idea to go for a run. As soon as I stopped running, my entire body started to hurt. Temp. is currently 99.2, and I still have body aches with slight chills. We'll see how I feel in the morning...
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,494
8,764
136
I heard the J&J might be available to all adults soon. That one is similar to AZ right? Might go for that one if it becomes available to me. Or would I be better off waiting for mRNA ones?
Saw a story tonight and professionals are saying there's a real good chance that mixing vaccinations will confer greater immunity than otherwise. IOW, an adenovirus (e.g. AZ or J&J) shot followed by an mRNA shot could be quite advantageous. So yeah, just get what you can get. You can get a 2nd shot later, an mRNA probably preferable for the 2nd shot.
 
Dec 10, 2005
25,094
8,380
136
Saw a story tonight and professionals are saying there's a real good chance that mixing vaccinations will confer greater immunity than otherwise. IOW, an adenovirus (e.g. AZ or J&J) shot followed by an mRNA shot could be quite advantageous. So yeah, just get what you can get. You can get a 2nd shot later, an mRNA probably preferable for the 2nd shot.
Or idk... Maybe wait till they actually run some studies to confirm this speculation? We have real proof that the vaccines are generally fine at their tested doses, and without any evidence to support mix and match.

A big problem to date for data gathering has been a rush to just throw shit at the wall in a totally arbitrary manner, so we're left with literal garbage data.

I don't see why the adenovirus shot mixed with an mRNA shot would be inherently advantageous. They are both shots that tell your cells how to make similar versions of the spike protein, which your body then creates antibodies against. The big difference between them is just the mode of delivery and type of genetic material carried. And the antibody creation process isn't just producing a single antibody - your immune system creates a variety of reactive antibodies - a big reason why single mutants don't render immunity useless.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,282
10,879
136
Or idk... Maybe wait till they actually run some studies to confirm this speculation? We have real proof that the vaccines are generally fine at their tested doses, and without any evidence to support mix and match.

A big problem to date for data gathering has been a rush to just throw shit at the wall in a totally arbitrary manner, so we're left with literal garbage data.

I don't see why the adenovirus shot mixed with an mRNA shot would be inherently advantageous. They are both shots that tell your cells how to make similar versions of the spike protein, which your body then creates antibodies against. The big difference between them is just the mode of delivery and type of genetic material carried. And the antibody creation process isn't just producing a single antibody - your immune system creates a variety of reactive antibodies - a big reason why single mutants don't render immunity useless.
I've read that there is thought that the immune system creates antibodies to the adenovirus vector, so the booster is less effective. So I could see how an mRNA booster could be better than a adenovirus booster.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,389
1,778
126
I was feeling alright until I decided it would be a good idea to go for a run. As soon as I stopped running, my entire body started to hurt. Temp. is currently 99.2, and I still have body aches with slight chills. We'll see how I feel in the morning...
The fatigue and stuff is real. But hey....that's what you want. You want your body to have that reaction so you know the vaccine worked and your antigen count is on the rise.
 
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Dec 10, 2005
25,094
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I've read that there is thought that the immune system creates antibodies to the adenovirus vector, so the booster is less effective. So I could see how an mRNA booster could be better than a adenovirus booster.
That's certainly a real possibility and concern with AZ and J&J approached; sequencing shots could be worth investigating in the future. Just seems pointless to start another hodgepodge round of is X effective without doing it in a controlled way. And with the current effectiveness from the trials, it doesn't seem to be a high priority.

The bigger focus right now needs to be on getting shots in arms - a lot of people still need just their initial doses.
 
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