• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

Page 570 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

manly

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
9,241
686
126
I guess I just don't understand authoritarian thinking.
In the past, when I've spoken to Chinese nationals, I'm told they have great admiration for President Xi. State propaganda is a powerful tool, and you could argue that in the age of the Internet, it requires the Great Firewall to mind control 1.4B people.
Subservience to authority may be part of the cultural DNA. Besides Confucianism itself, China was ruled by imperial dynasties for two millennia.
 

Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
6,844
985
126
In the past, when I've spoken to Chinese nationals, I'm told they have great admiration for President Xi. State propaganda is a powerful tool, and you could argue that in the age of the Internet, it requires the Great Firewall to mind control 1.4B people.
Subservience to authority may be part of the cultural DNA. Besides Confucianism itself, China was ruled by imperial dynasties for two millennia.
Chinese may not like sucking up but they fear getting beat up and losing their pot of resources far more.

Your ass is going to be hauled off to detention if you do not toe the line. The authority figure is capable and willing to use such powers whenever necessary. It was there in the 60s when my mom and grandmother had to deal with it and it hasn't changed, only empowered further with the "funding" problem fixed (markets yet with control)and the newfound usefulness of dead bodies(organs).

Two, even without the government being overbearing, Chinese people are skittish once they believe authority figures are starting to sniff out their dirty laundry. That is why they are particularly vulnerable to a phone scam where the scammers pretend to be the top brass in police in the mainland, stating you(some Chinese person X) have been compromised in your privacy or something and you need to fork over money, your Social Security number, etc. My mom actually got suckered by such a call in giving out her social security number but not money.

Some nationals do believe the shit(F Jackie Chan) but nonbelievers won't be yapping either because the government will step in if someone reports you have stated treasonous words, it doesn't matter if you're joe schmoe of the big president of Alibaba. Back in the day, the government clearly came up to my mom and the rest of the family and gave clear instructions that if anyone from the press asks, say "everything is fine and dandy", with the implicit threat of detention if compliance is not followed.

And it's money over solidarity for the Chinese. The suckers suck up to the Commies because the money's good. But offer them more money elsewhere, and they'll defect. That, and the cultural divide amongst differing groups within "the Chinese" made nationalistic unity difficult. National identity really wasn't there. Chinese defined themselves by spoken language, so those in Shanghai couldn't understand a single thing a Cantonese would say without a common tongue. The use of dialects to describe Chinese leads to an assumption of false similarty. The difference because dialects is pretty much the equivalent of English and Spanish and not American English vs Australian or British English. The only Chinese that were monolingual and were unaffected by the mandate of Mandarin are the northerners who spoke it in the first place.

I'll place my bets some naughty lab work was being conducted and something slipped out.
 

manly

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
9,241
686
126
She's doing her job, but I'm not convinced the fear factor approach works in the latter stages of this pandemic. It reminds me of the approach by L.A. County's health director, whose public messaging always seems dire and often recommends social distancing mitigations that are comically restrictive. As the article mentions, western Europe is having some serious flare-ups and the U.S. is definitely not out of the woods yet. We've already seen the B.117 variant secure a foothold domestically, and a few areas are indeed showing signs of a new surge: MI, NYC metro and PA (and perhaps even Florida). OTOH people were outraged a few weeks ago that TX Gov. Abbott was condemning his citizens to a new surge, but so far their infections trajectory hasn't ticked upward.

Once much of the adult population is vaccinated (late June-ish?), then SARS-CoV-2 will mainly circulate amongst holdout male Republican voters. :p
 
  • Like
Reactions: Captante

gill77

Senior member
Aug 3, 2006
645
182
116
Looks like this forum has allowed itself to degenerate to the point we are hoping for a disease to inflict those we might not agree with.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stargazr

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,008
1,511
126
One can only hope? ;)
We saw a 10 day spike here after the numbers bottomed out. My assumption is that it was Spring Break-related. Case count rose back up to mirror the mid-October numbers and we have a ton of republicans in this area that are reading Facebook for their vaccination advice. The spike leveled off, but I expect it to possibly rise a little more from those people spreading what they caught on their trips locally before crashing back down in the next few weeks.

You could probably look at last year's new case spikes and assume that you'll see the numbers follow last Spring/Summer at a reduced %. My real question is about those who caught covid early on vs those who have caught it more recently or been vaccinated. How long are they going to be *protected* and considered part of the immune herd? If I were infected back in March/April of 2020, I'd be getting jabbed in the arm by July of this year to know I'd be good going into Fall/Winter.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,008
1,511
126
Looks like this forum has allowed itself to degenerate to the point we are hoping for a disease to inflict those we might not agree with.
Don't disagree with us or you may find yourself.....wait. We're all friends here and he didn't mean THOSE republicans of course! This is non-political!
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
10,509
4,549
136
Looks like this forum has allowed itself to degenerate to the point we are hoping for a disease to inflict those we might not agree with.
They are free to get vaccinated, but they've decided their stupidity is more important to them than their life.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zinfamous

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
10,509
4,549
136
I got vaxxed on 3/9, gave platelets on 3/29. The antibody test came back negative. I know I've read in the past that most of the antibody tests look for antibodies to the N protein, not the S that the vaccines simulate.
 
Feb 4, 2009
31,520
11,891
136
Go Massachusetts!
We should be at herd immunity by mid of June, I’m counting first dose as good enough for herd immunity purposes and I am running with around 75% vaccinated. I’m certainly not an expert but that seems to be the middle ground that experts talk about basically it is more than 60% but less than 90%.

 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
9,216
4,028
136
In the past, when I've spoken to Chinese nationals, I'm told they have great admiration for President Xi. State propaganda is a powerful tool, and you could argue that in the age of the Internet, it requires the Great Firewall to mind control 1.4B people.
Subservience to authority may be part of the cultural DNA. Besides Confucianism itself, China was ruled by imperial dynasties for two millennia.
I guess that must be a big part of it. But from my limited encounters with Chinese nationals, I get the impression that nationalism is a very powerful force in a country that has felt itself to be seriously humiliated by foreigners in the past, and it's a force the government can employ as a powerful distraction, and turn on and off like a tap, as required. Also there seems to be a very strong fear of chaos and anarchy, presumably stemming mainly from the Cultural revolution, but maybe going even further back in their history?
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,778
4,752
136
Once much of the adult population is vaccinated (late June-ish?), then SARS-CoV-2 will mainly circulate amongst holdout male Republican voters. :p
You mean democrat Karen moms that know better from their vast amount of qualified Facebook research ? ;)
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,778
4,752
136
Looks like this forum has allowed itself to degenerate to the point we are hoping for a disease to inflict those we might not agree with.
Indeed. I'm normally a very pessimistic person in life - but one thing I am optimistic on (to a degree) is I think we all truly do want whats best for people and this country. Were just add different odds of how best to implement things to get us to the final result.

I think the worst of the political discourse is in the last 20-30 years where we moved from "You're wrong - and here is why I think my route would be better" and turned it into a "You're evil and want babies and poor people to DIE!"


This video sums it up pretty well:

 

gill77

Senior member
Aug 3, 2006
645
182
116
Indeed. I'm normally a very pessimistic person in life - but one thing I am optimistic on (to a degree) is I think we all truly do want whats best for people and this country. Were just add different odds of how best to implement things to get us to the final result.

I think the worst of the political discourse is in the last 20-30 years where we moved from "You're wrong - and here is why I think my route would be better" and turned it into a "You're evil and want babies and poor people to DIE!"


This video sums it up pretty well:

Regarding the video, I get it, but it probably falls into the category of over the top rhetoric. My policies are good, yours will cause death and destruction.

What we have seen here on this forum is the blatant wish for certain people to become ill.

That would be considered pretty toxic stuff elsewhere.

Old Buddhist saying, "Whatever is in a man's heart eventually comes out of his mouth".
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
20,310
3,300
126
Regarding the video, I get it, but it probably falls into the category of over the top rhetoric. My policies are good, yours will cause death and destruction.

What we have seen here on this forum is the blatant wish for certain people to become ill.

That would be considered pretty toxic stuff elsewhere.

Old Buddhist saying, "Whatever is in a man's heart eventually comes out of his mouth".

And THIS is why this is why this thread is supposed to be non-political.

I was pretty sure my " ;) " made the tone of my post clear but apparently not? Anyway shouldn't have to deal with this nonsense over here.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,008
1,511
126
And THIS is why this is why this thread is supposed to be non-political.

I was pretty sure my " ;) " made the tone of my post clear but apparently not? Anyway shouldn't have to deal with this nonsense over here.
My wife is a republican, but lined up the last week of December for her first shot. She struggles to understand why people don't trust vaccines.... The same people that are afraid of what's in the vaccine eat regularly at McDonald's, smoke pot they buy from the street, take other nutritional supplements that could contain more sawdust or asbestos than they realize....

I think there are quite a few victims because much of the misinformation is being generated through social media and other outlets where ANYONE can have a voice. I could see the Russians pushing to free up vaccine by the US not needing as much...or them just continuing their influence to maintain more control.

In any case, my family is mostly vaccinated. My sister isn't much for getting shots....so hopefully I can convince her to go sooner rather than later. I think she's actually waiting to see if anyone she knows has problems.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Captante

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,792
4,167
126
In any case, my family is mostly vaccinated. My sister isn't much for getting shots....so hopefully I can convince her to go sooner rather than later. I think she's actually waiting to see if anyone she knows has problems.
I watch the news regularly these days. It really annoys me how much they interview lay people as if their viewers won't believe what they're being shown and told unless they hear it from some rube in the street with only a tangential connection to the story. Get the opinion from someone in line or interview a small business owner to hear their experience, what the pandemic has meant for them. After you hear 25 of those stories they seem like a waste of my time. I don't need to know what Joe Blow or Mary Make Believe thinks of the vaccine to convince me one way or another. I've heard expert opinion and statistical information concerning side effects so many times I have no interest in what any particular person experienced.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zorba

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
12,833
9,629
136
I went to my mechanic's shop yesterday back near my hometown. He is like 35-40 minutes away so I just get oil changes done by me, but for any other issues, I go to him as my family has gone to him for 30 years and I trust him. Anyways he is a Republican and his lone employee is an insane Trumpie. Last time I was there shortly before the election, his employee was blaming the fact that most tires are made by a couple of Asian companies on Obama. Anything wrong with auto industry product quality was Obama's fault. I heard Obama's name come up more than a few times that day about things that Obama had nothing to do with. It was depressing but I just kept my mouth shut as there was literally no point.

Anyways, so yesterday the owner said he was getting vaccinated later on that day. He said he wasn't going to get it but his wife and daughter kept pressuring him to do it, and he said they blamed it on him being a Trump supporter. He said it had nothing to do with his politics, but what he puts in his body. Then he paused and said a bit quieter, plus he's been hearing all the stuff about Bill Gates and the chip. I waited for him to laugh like it was a joke. It wasn't a joke. I was like dude, there is no Bill Gates tracking chip, that's just a conspiracy theory. I went on to logically explain to him that Gates was not involved in the vaccines, let alone controls the manufacture and distribution of the 4 vaccines being used, and why the hell would they need to track with you with a chip if you already have a phone on you all the time that has way more granular data on what you do every day. He kind of agreed with me and the conversation moved on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Muse

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,394
126
I really don't get why they are acting like they are if they have nothing to hide. I don't believe the lab conspiracy, but the more they do stuff like this the more I wonder. I'd also like to know what their real numbers were, especially in Wuhan, no way those will real numbers with all of reports that were coming out at the time.
Commie china (ccp) is so paranoid and wants nothing to do with the true root cause(s) of the virus, therefore, the latest report from WHO leaves the origins of the virus as "unresolved".

WHO Wuhan report leaves question of coronavirus origins unresolved - The Washington Post

.
 

manly

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
9,241
686
126
I guess that must be a big part of it. But from my limited encounters with Chinese nationals, I get the impression that nationalism is a very powerful force in a country that has felt itself to be seriously humiliated by foreigners in the past, and it's a force the government can employ as a powerful distraction, and turn on and off like a tap, as required. Also there seems to be a very strong fear of chaos and anarchy, presumably stemming mainly from the Cultural revolution, but maybe going even further back in their history?
Certainly, nationalism is a powerful force in many countries. And yes, China is a bit of a unique case as once being the "Sick Man of Asia" and de facto carved up by foreign powers; now the citizens certainly want to believe China has recovered its rightful place as a global power. So that's their social contract, you deal with this restrictive government so long as GDP growth is 5+ percent per annum (because compounding growth is an amazing thing). Like for all empires and dynasties, China's history is littered with uprisings that overthrew the ruling house. But the most pertinent history for today's China is the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre; paranoia over this event potentially repeating itself explains why the Party is so inflexible over its governance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Muse

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
12,833
9,629
136
Commie china (ccp) is so paranoid and wants nothing to do with the true root cause(s) of the virus, therefore, the latest report from WHO leaves the origins of the virus as "unresolved".

WHO Wuhan report leaves question of coronavirus origins unresolved - The Washington Post

.
the US, backed by other nations, is asking for an independent investigation


"
The U.S. and more than a dozen other countries expressed concern about a World Health Organization-led mission to China to explore the origins of Covid-19, saying it came too late and wasn’t afforded full or timely access to pertinent data.

The statement, backed by Australia, Japan, Canada, the U.K. and other states, called for “transparent and independent analysis and evaluation, free from interference and undue influence.”

The statement was echoed by the European Union, whose delegation to the United Nations issued a separate statement along the same lines. The two statements followed the release Tuesday of a report on the WHO-led mission to Wuhan, the Chinese city where the first cases were found. That report found that the virus was “extremely unlikely” to have spilled from a Chinese laboratory."
 
  • Like
Reactions: Captante

Jon-T

Senior member
Jun 5, 2011
364
152
116
Whooo Hoo! Just jumped the line and now I'm eligible for the shot.

PA has phase 1a,1b,1c, and 2. I was in phase 2, but, this colorectal cancer diagnosis kicks me to the 1a head of the line.:)


PS

GET SCOPED
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY