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NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

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destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,783
348
126
Given current evidence on the circulation of COVID-19, I can pretty much guarantee that you didn't have it in Nov 2019.
How can you be so sure?

I too, along with family and some co-workers, experienced something quite like that in November-December 2019, and one co-worker seemingly had a second bout in January 2020. Covid-19 or not, I really just want to know what virus that was. Was it equally as novel but just kind of faded away or didn't become serious? Some new variant of rhinovirus or RSV? Heard it was a real bad RSV season back then, but normally like many viruses it doesn't often impact adults... like most coronaviruses don't cause much more than a common cold-like response in adults because they became exposed and developed some limited immunity as a child.

Now I mostly suspect you're hunch is accurate, but I don't know that I've seen anything that actually points to it being truly locked up in China until late-December 2019 or into January 2020. I mean yes the usual sources and discussions all are showing just that, but I don't know we can definitively pinpoint first transmission... first "known" case perhaps, but can we expect to be so lucky as to immediately find the virus right at the very moment it came into existence? Just like by time we finally identify new Covid-19 mutations, it's practically guaranteed that means it has been in circulation for some time already.
I generally believe the wet market theory but I don't expect investigators will find a complete picture thanks to China's obfuscation. Did it accidentally walk out of the Wuhan lab before winding up in the wet market, or did it truly evolve at the market end of story? I don't suspect we'll ever truly know.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,584
1,172
126
Just saw on the news feed that at least 7 cases of Ebola are confirmed in Guinea with 4 deaths, new cases since 2016 in which the fatality was over 11,000 deaths.


We need no more bad news. Goodness.
 

Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
4,694
388
126
I understand why you suspect covid-19 in Nov. 2019. Indeed it's been revealed that it was here earlier than they earlier said it was. Of course, they didn't even know the problem at the time, and I think that was Dec. 2019. Could it have been here in Nov.? I don't know the answer. Have you run this stuff by a good doctor? Many doctors are all over this. I suppose that most are not, they are busy people, but many doctors are spending a lot of their time investigating, following the pandemic, as is evidenced by the Youtube video culture around them. Dozens and dozens of videos by some of them. You might find a doctor who's likewise astute that you can see personally.

Edit: Yes, they've underestimated this virus publicly, especially at the beginning, probably still do.
I've always wanted an antibody test for a while to confirm the suspicion but simply couldn't get around to it. Now that I've tested positive, maybe the only "hope" is that I got the South African strain this time instead of the original and thus maybe can prove that I got it twice if the antibodies actually differ.

These recent symptoms do feel like a re-visitation of an old friend rather than something fully new, forcing me into the same routine of dealing with "the weakness" as back then, but not as strongly as the first time. Sleep becomes a "forced heaven" of sorts in both cases. If this is indeed a reinfection, this means that having immunity does not necessarily mean full avoidance of symptoms or potential to spread, but rather the symptoms are less debilitating and more manageable in a reinfection.

I haven't taken care of myself all that great in this 30 years of existence, but two weeks of extreme fatigue to the point just walking up the stairs becomes a chore never had happened to me even in my most sleep deprived state until Nov 2019. My body looks frail, but it has the genes for endurance. I did a lot of walking when going to college, so I have not totally neglected my cardiovascular health.

I'm on Kaiser's Medicaid, so I'll probably see one soon. I can tell them that I felt similarly back in November of 2019 and would want an antibody test even after I test negative and this infection clears. I don't know if I'll get further than that.

Kaiser sent an oximeter and thermometer today. Levels of oxygen at 97-99%. Ear reading of thermometer is 98.3 Fahrenheit. My blood pressure does take a jump when standing up though.


My mom also experienced a bizarre and sudden deterioration of her condition in December of 2020. Vomiting and sudden disorientation. We thought is was some heart-related matter but nothing was found and she recovered. She has never relapsed to that level ever since.
 

Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
8,531
2,393
136
How can you be so sure?

I too, along with family and some co-workers, experienced something quite like that in November-December 2019, and one co-worker seemingly had a second bout in January 2020. Covid-19 or not, I really just want to know what virus that was. Was it equally as novel but just kind of faded away or didn't become serious? Some new variant of rhinovirus or RSV? Heard it was a real bad RSV season back then, but normally like many viruses it doesn't often impact adults... like most coronaviruses don't cause much more than a common cold-like response in adults because they became exposed and developed some limited immunity as a child.

Now I mostly suspect you're hunch is accurate, but I don't know that I've seen anything that actually points to it being truly locked up in China until late-December 2019 or into January 2020. I mean yes the usual sources and discussions all are showing just that, but I don't know we can definitively pinpoint first transmission... first "known" case perhaps, but can we expect to be so lucky as to immediately find the virus right at the very moment it came into existence? Just like by time we finally identify new Covid-19 mutations, it's practically guaranteed that means it has been in circulation for some time already.
I generally believe the wet market theory but I don't expect investigators will find a complete picture thanks to China's obfuscation. Did it accidentally walk out of the Wuhan lab before winding up in the wet market, or did it truly evolve at the market end of story? I don't suspect we'll ever truly know.
Yeah, I had the worst cold at the beginning of March last year, but I've had 20 antibody tests and they were all negative.

2019 was bad with flu and colds. I think the symptoms are so common it's easy to think a bad cold was COVID.
 
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Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
8,531
2,393
136
Just saw on the news feed that at least 7 cases of Ebola are confirmed in Guinea with 4 deaths, new cases since 2016 in which the fatality was over 11,000 deaths.


We need no more bad news. Goodness.
They have a good vaccine now. Hopefully they can quell this quickly.
 

Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
8,531
2,393
136
Kaiser sent an oximeter and thermometer today. Levels of oxygen at 97-99%. Ear reading of thermometer is 98.3 Fahrenheit. My blood pressure does take a jump when standing up though.
Hopefully you stay well. Just an FYI, blood pressure is supposed to go up when you stand.
 

Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
4,694
388
126
Hopefully you stay well. Just an FYI, blood pressure is supposed to go up when you stand.
Numbers seem okay today. Sitting blood pressure has had an uptick of sorts. A tad variable. But hovering more around 77-81 than the 72 yesterday.
Temps from ear seem fine. 98.1 today.

It's 2:28 and have felt the strong need to crash yet. But maybe I will in 30 mins.

Strangely, I think my sinuses proper actually feel better under this illness. I'll see when this thing clears out what's going on there.....
 

Spacehead

Lifer
Jun 2, 2002
10,543
2,977
136
No one at work has tested positive for covid but a few of them are "positive" that they've had it. They won't take an antibody test either though. Yet no one else at work or those they were around got sick either.
 

Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
4,694
388
126
Okay, I've finally coughed a couple times in these past four hours. Weak ones, a little irritation.

Eating sugary stuff might have caused the cough to precipitate since I drank some "American" soy milk that was clearly sweetened this evening.


I did nap for an hour at 3pm again.

Whether I'm on the upswing or if this is just false hope remains to be seen. Could be that now my body is winning, the plume unleashing begins.

Seems like my pulse has gone down. It's reading around 69 and I do feel more comfortable. I'll probably go eat a pound of ground beef.
 

Linux23

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
11,003
426
126
Numbers seem okay today. Sitting blood pressure has had an uptick of sorts. A tad variable. But hovering more around 77-81 than the 72 yesterday.
Temps from ear seem fine. 98.1 today.

It's 2:28 and have felt the strong need to crash yet. But maybe I will in 30 mins.

Strangely, I think my sinuses proper actually feel better under this illness. I'll see when this thing clears out what's going on there.....
Be careful of throwing a clot. Those things can be a real pain in the rear.
 

Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
8,531
2,393
136
Okay, I've finally coughed a couple times in these past four hours. Weak ones, a little irritation.

Eating sugary stuff might have caused the cough to precipitate since I drank some "American" soy milk that was clearly sweetened this evening.


I did nap for an hour at 3pm again.

Whether I'm on the upswing or if this is just false hope remains to be seen. Could be that now my body is winning, the plume unleashing begins.

Seems like my pulse has gone down. It's reading around 69 and I do feel more comfortable. I'll probably go eat a pound of ground beef.
How is your sense smell and taste?
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,225
3,152
126
Okay, I've finally coughed a couple times in these past four hours. Weak ones, a little irritation.

Eating sugary stuff might have caused the cough to precipitate since I drank some "American" soy milk that was clearly sweetened this evening.


I did nap for an hour at 3pm again.

Whether I'm on the upswing or if this is just false hope remains to be seen. Could be that now my body is winning, the plume unleashing begins.

Seems like my pulse has gone down. It's reading around 69 and I do feel more comfortable. I'll probably go eat a pound of ground beef.
You tested positive, you said. Is it possible it was a false positive?
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,225
3,152
126
So, I've heard talk that they think the current vaccines MAY be less effective against the South African covid-19 variant. Is there any data? Why would they say that without data? I haven't heard of any data concerning this.

What I have heard is that people who got covid-19 in the past (presumably not the SA variant) are coming down with the SA variant strain, indicating that the immunity conferred by the first infection is not preventing the new infection. This suggests that the antibodies generated by the first infection are ineffective in preventing the infection by the SA variant. Does this mean that the current vaccines will be likewise ineffective?

Up until a few weeks ago I was hearing assurances that the current vaccines (which in the US are the mRNA vaccines) will prevent infection by variants because they were pretty sure that the spike protein would be stable, wouldn't mutate. So, a question is, has the spike protein mutated?

I've heard some talk that it will be "easy" to tweak the mRNA to account for new variants. Does this imply that at some point Moderna and Pfizer will change their vaccines? Are boosters being planned? Instead of tweaks to the current vaccines?

Several questions here. I'm not hearing much of anything about these concerns, I figure that people checking out this thread have a take on some of them.
 

Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
4,694
388
126
How is your sense smell and taste?
No noticeable difference.

Interestingly, I think the virus has dulled my muscular and sinus soreness sensitivity in the sinus and forehead area, maybe my whole skeletal muscle system. Some of the "head tissue" sensitivity has returned today, along with general energy, indicating I might be on the upswing. In addition, it seems a subtle and unnoticeable pressure has released from my right ear today. So, there is some sort of sensory dulling effect on my body though not smell or taste. An almost "comforting" dulling of the senses, dare I say.

For my body, this virus has phases. The initial phase is what I would call "parasitic", in which I felt I have no energy beyond a short budget in the morning and my afternoon "forced nap". Starting last night and definitely today, I have transitioned into the what I call the "spreader phase", as my energy is coming back but the urge to cough has developed, although I am not to mostly prevent actual coughing. My irritability has also gone done. The chest "heaviness" near the heart is still there, but I can clearly "feel" it mostly in the lungs and it wants to be "coughed" now.

This thing is a rather "anti-flu" for my body. I get itchy throat, tight upper mouth, stuffed nose, mucus production, superficial headaches and sinus pain with flu. Once done, I know that I'll have a large load of salty yellow mucus coming out of the nose But the deep lungs and "heart area" really don't get affected at all.

Not so with COVID. In fact, if there wasn't a pandemic, I would have attributed it to a "chickens coming home to roost" for me not taking care of myself. Having a lousy sleep schedule, not doing enough cardio-friendly exercises, not having a quality air filter, bad posture causing muscular tightness. My symptoms were subtle and only because the lack of energy was persistent and stubborn for 3 straight days did I finally contact Kaiser to get tested.
 
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Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
4,694
388
126
You tested positive, you said. Is it possible it was a false positive?
I doubt it is a false positive. The "load in my chest" is definitely very real. But today, I have an uptick in energy, less inclination to sleep, a more clear mind, and the irritability is reduced substantially. But now I have a weak but persistent coughing impulse I did not have in the prior week; it has gained strength from yesterday night but still is controllable. The "chest load" wants to "come out". If I do an activity that pushes me, the cough impulse becomes stronger.

This would be ideal "spreading" behavior.

My natural blood pressure likes to be around 60. So 70-80 is high for me and the oximeter still shows readings in that range at times.
 

Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
4,694
388
126
Given my observations from my personal experience this time, it is possible that many who might be asymptomatic may be misattributing symptoms to just have a "bad day" or having a normal "down" day.

Or, there is even the possibility that for some, the virus does not bring down, but rather boosts and enhances the feeling of well-being during infection.
 

Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
4,694
388
126
Took a nap at 6:07pm and woke up around 7:13pm. I did have a little weak coughing session upon wakeup.

The restoration of sensation is continuing for me. The pesky gum infection affecting my top right molar since the end of January is feel-able again(the swelling did not fully dissipate during the COVID infection). Aches in muscles that I was feeling to prior to illness are being felt again.

The "load in my chest" is less perceptible while sitting.

The right nose truly feels clearer in the airways while breathing. Pushing down on the nostril still results in feeling tender tissue.

Absolutely fascinating how "deceptive" and "secretive" this virus is. It's like it got a pain killer effect along with the chest irritation effect for me.

I'm still suspicious this is a round 2 infection for me because the energy drain in the "parasitic stage" felt so familiar.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,225
3,152
126
If you have access to the NY Times, the following article updated yesterday appears to be an exhaustive treatment of the various mutations of SARS-CoV-2:

A linked article in the NYTimes includes info that Moderna is thinking along the lines of possible booster to address unexpected recent discoveries of variants being "slightly" resistant to the current vaccinations:

As a precaution, Moderna has begun developing a new form of its vaccine that could be used as a booster shot against the variant in South Africa. “We’re doing it today to be ahead of the curve, should we need to,” Dr. Tal Zaks, Moderna’s chief medical officer, said in an interview. “I think of it as an insurance policy.”
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,225
3,152
126
So, I've heard talk that they think the current vaccines MAY be less effective against the South African covid-19 variant. Is there any data? Why would they say that without data? I haven't heard of any data concerning this.

What I have heard is that people who got covid-19 in the past (presumably not the SA variant) are coming down with the SA variant strain, indicating that the immunity conferred by the first infection is not preventing the new infection. This suggests that the antibodies generated by the first infection are ineffective in preventing the infection by the SA variant. Does this mean that the current vaccines will be likewise ineffective?

Up until a few weeks ago I was hearing assurances that the current vaccines (which in the US are the mRNA vaccines) will prevent infection by variants because they were pretty sure that the spike protein would be stable, wouldn't mutate. So, a question is, has the spike protein mutated?

I've heard some talk that it will be "easy" to tweak the mRNA to account for new variants. Does this imply that at some point Moderna and Pfizer will change their vaccines? Are boosters being planned? Instead of tweaks to the current vaccines?

Several questions here. I'm not hearing much of anything about these concerns, I figure that people checking out this thread have a take on some of them.
Jan. 25 article in the NYTimes includes info that Moderna is thinking along the lines of possible booster to address unexpected recent discoveries of variants being "slightly" resistant to the current vaccinations:

As a precaution, Moderna has begun developing a new form of its vaccine that could be used as a booster shot against the variant in South Africa. “We’re doing it today to be ahead of the curve, should we need to,” Dr. Tal Zaks, Moderna’s chief medical officer, said in an interview. “I think of it as an insurance policy.”

Scientists had predicted that the coronavirus would evolve and might acquire new mutations that would thwart vaccines, but few researchers expected it to happen so soon. Part of the problem is the sheer ubiquity of the pathogen.
 

Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
4,694
388
126
Jan. 25 article in the NYTimes includes info that Moderna is thinking along the lines of possible booster to address unexpected recent discoveries of variants being "slightly" resistant to the current vaccinations:



I expect yearly boosters to be the norm going forward. The vaccine will merely be one of many mitigators.

But the knowledge-holders won't let that tidbit out of the bag until "proven" via a pile of more dead bodies and the world's wealthiest have adjusted to the new normal accordingly.

The hard truth is that some people will be SOL once the politicians proclaim normalcy is restored after rounds of vaccination.
 

Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
4,694
388
126
The "pain killer" effect of the virus is further decreasing as of this morning. So, a symptom of the virus is not perceiving or not reporting negative symptoms that actually are present because they are not felt.

Starting to feel the throat have some "mucus air" feel while breathing an the roof of my mouth actually feels a little flu tender. All very minor

The cough reflex is stronger when I test "sucking in" air but I still nearly have full control in suppressing the coughs.

Some of my tight muscles that were aching before the illness are making the presence known again, like the right supraspinatus.

Energy levels are upbeat like yesterday. Fatigue is nonexistent just like yesterday.

The feeling of the "load in the chest" is not perceptible while sitting most of the time.

So I'm still in the spreader phase.

If my experience with the Nov 2019 mystery illness was actually a first round of COVID, my experience this time could be an example of what to expect during a reinfection and having prior immunity.

Mother tested negative on a test 2/15.
 

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