• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

Page 546 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
15,212
5,297
136
I understand the not being happy part, its the lashing out and using emotion as a catalyst to find wrong doing in official disease control institutions I dont agree with.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zorba

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,225
3,152
126

CDC says don't need to quarantine if you're fully vac'd, but still follow other precautions.
Eh, the CDC has been issuing directives for ~ a year already that are very much, WTH are they thinking? I don't consider them to be, shall we say, all over this? ;)

In this particular case, I'll just say this: They don't have data indicating that being vaccinated prevents you from becoming a spreader of this virus. What I've heard is conjecture, really nothing more. The vaccines prevent you getting seriously ill and dying, that we know in terms of percent efficacy figures published.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
32,009
10,790
146
Eh, the CDC has been issuing directives for ~ a year already that are very much, WTH are they thinking? I don't consider them to be, shall we say, all over this? ;)

In this particular case, I'll just say this: They don't have data indicating that being vaccinated prevents you from becoming a spreader of this virus. What I've heard is conjecture, really nothing more. The vaccines prevent you getting seriously ill and dying, that we know in terms of percent efficacy figures published.
Yea, they've been ok but not stellar. I think to your point, that's why they're still saying take the precautions, because you may feel ok but could still be contagious. Until there's more data that says otherwise...
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
36,025
9,703
136
So, this is just putting more vaccine in the same vials?

Why didn't they put more in to begin with?
Yes. I presume there is a standard fill line for vials of each size for drug products. It would appear their vaccine production may be outrunning their fill capacity so this is a good shortcut if it does not damage the product or create other issues. Even just changing the level of fill will take them about 10 weeks per the above.
 
  • Like
Reactions: uclaLabrat

gill77

Senior member
Aug 3, 2006
549
150
116
FDA gives ok to Moderna to increase doses per vial

Is it just me or is this not an over the top example of over-regulation? We are in a race against a mutating virus and some bureaucrat needs to sign off on how full to fill the vials?

I assume they don't ship these one at a time. Do they regulate how many vials go in a box?
 
  • Like
Reactions: ultimatebob

Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
8,531
2,393
136
I would not go that hard right away, a lot of the antivaxxers think it's the mark of the beast or it has a chip etc. By making it mandatory (which that basically would be doing) it kind of reinforces their way of thinking and might even cause people who are on the fence to start being skeptical about it too. I think the more voluntary something is the less people are resistant about it.

What they could do though is if there is not enough uptake and it is actually problematic, then start requiring the vaccine OR a negative test for more things. That would mean if you don't have the vaccine you need to get tested very often. At some point more people might just give in and get the vaccine.


As a totally random note I saw a wifi network the other day that said "5G covid-19 test tower". I thought that was amusing.
People bitch more about things being mandatory but they comply at much higher rates. I really don't mean it has to be a government mandate, but want to cruise or get on an airplane, yup? School, yup. Work, yup.

All of those have a legitimate claim for making it mandatory.
 

Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
8,531
2,393
136
Is it just me or is this not an over the top example of over-regulation? We are in a race against a mutating virus and some bureaucrat needs to sign off on how full to fill the vials?

I assume they don't ship these one at a time. Do they regulate how many vials go in a box?
Yes, the shipping container is regulated too. You have no idea how the original limit was set or what concerns there may be about more. So you have no idea if this is over regulation or not.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
36,025
9,703
136
Is it just me or is this not an over the top example of over-regulation? We are in a race against a mutating virus and some bureaucrat needs to sign off on how full to fill the vials?
It took what a couple weeks? That's pretty quick and it will take Moderna and their contractors up to 10 weeks to adjust the fill volumes anyway. The delay doesn't seem that material to me. And yes if you're under an EUA for a vaccine you must get approval for any changes to what you are doing and it should be that way.
 

gill77

Senior member
Aug 3, 2006
549
150
116
It took what a couple weeks? That's pretty quick and it will take Moderna and their contractors up to 10 weeks to adjust the fill volumes anyway. The delay doesn't seem that material to me. And yes if you're under an EUA for a vaccine you must get approval for any changes to what you are doing and it should be that way.
I am not sure who is or should be the final arbitrator of whether it "should be that way" or not, but it is probably not you, and for sure not me.

If the universe should somehow tilt and we are made the arbitrators, you would receive no argument from me if you chose to wait an additional two weeks for your vaccination.

Personally, I would forgo the government stamp and the waiting period. I guess someone considers me in the high risk group and put me on the waiting list for the next batch of vaccinations. If necessary, I would allow my place in line to be used by those I care about and get back in line. I still figure I'm a bit harder to kill than most.

If I felt there was some undisclosed factor that only allowed a government employee to determine the safe fill level of a vial, I would reconsider. It seems that the folks who developed and produced these vaccines can somehow handle filling the vial.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
36,025
9,703
136
I am not sure who is or should be the final arbitrator of whether it "should be that way" or not, but it is probably not you, and for sure not me.

If the universe should somehow tilt and we are made the arbitrators, you would receive no argument from me if you chose to wait an additional two weeks for your vaccination.

Personally, I would forgo the government stamp and the waiting period. I guess someone considers me in the high risk group and put me on the waiting list for the next batch of vaccinations. If necessary, I would allow my place in line to be used by those I care about and get back in line. I still figure I'm a bit harder to kill than most.

If I felt there was some undisclosed factor that only allowed a government employee to determine the safe fill level of a vial, I would reconsider. It seems that the folks who developed and produced these vaccines can somehow handle filling the vial.
I don't want the drug companies making changes to vaccines unless it's approved by the regulator who is responsible to us, ultimately. Any slight misstep could be disastrous in too many ways.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,225
3,152
126
It took what a couple weeks? That's pretty quick and it will take Moderna and their contractors up to 10 weeks to adjust the fill volumes anyway. The delay doesn't seem that material to me. And yes if you're under an EUA for a vaccine you must get approval for any changes to what you are doing and it should be that way.
I heard (from cousin's daughter on family zoom call) that Pfizer covid-19 vaccine in shipment has temperature sensing GPS devices attached to shipping containers that constantly monitor the temperature inside the cases and upload the data, thus insuring compliance with the deep deep freeze they require. Is this true? I haven't heard about this anywhere else.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
83,253
8,580
126
meh, we essentially skipped all 3 of those holidays this year. sure, it sucks....but let's just watch the next 9 months unfold and I'd wager we'll be much better off.
There are millions of Chinese that work away from home, they only go back on Chinese New Years so it is a big deal. Not saying they should travel.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
36,025
9,703
136
I heard (from cousin's daughter on family zoom call) that Pfizer covid-19 vaccine in shipment has temperature sensing GPS devices attached to shipping containers that constantly monitor the temperature inside the cases and upload the data, thus insuring compliance with the deep deep freeze they require. Is this true? I haven't heard about this anywhere else.
Yes, Pfizer ships with connected sensors to ensure no unacceptable temperature excursions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: uclaLabrat and Muse

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,584
1,172
126
There are millions of Chinese that work away from home, they only go back on Chinese New Years so it is a big deal. Not saying they should travel.
Yup. Rural chinese working like slaves for a whole year in the cities, trying to save money to bring back to families during the Spring festival.

Chunyun, the world largest annual human migration.


Plus the economy was not doing well because of the virus, many immigrants in developing countries decided to stay put and work extra to make up the money they lost during the virus shutdown.

Migrants stay back in deserted HCMC for Tet work - VnExpress International

.
.
 
Last edited:

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
32,009
10,790
146
There are millions of Chinese that work away from home, they only go back on Chinese New Years so it is a big deal. Not saying they should travel.
Yea, the holidays are a big deal, just adding some perspective as many people around the globe are making these types of sacrifices, or aren't, and there's a cost either way.
 

Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
4,694
388
126
Well, I can now say I have it as I have tested positive.

I don't think I'll die and since I'm a natural isolator, I'll probably end the chain without spreading it anyone else. Some "fluttery" feels in the heart. Irritability, wanting to sleep by 3 pm.

Where I got it? Likely Home Depot or Walmart.

Guidelines are a load of overoptimistic bullshit.

Now, the real question for me was that in November of 2019, I felt like this but WORSE in a very similar manner. So, I cannot know now, but maybe I got it back then too and this is my second go around with this illness. Definitely not as worse as that experience in November 2019, where I felt like napping nearly 2 weeks straight and felt off until like January of 2020.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,225
3,152
126
Where I got it? Likely Home Depot or Walmart. Guidelines are a load of overoptimistic bullshit.

Now, the real question for me was that in November of 2019, I felt like this but WORSE in a very similar manner. So, I cannot know now, but maybe I got it back then too and this is my second go around with this illness. Definitely not as worse as that experience in November 2019, where I felt like napping nearly 2 weeks straight and felt off until like January of 2020.
Last time I was sick was also Nov. 2019. I had to wonder later if it was Covid-19, but it seems unlikely. Possible, yes. I was in Northern California. I was pretty sick for weeks. Upper respiratory. I figured I picked it up at a Best Buy, I was shopping laptops and messing with the keyboards, then ate a packaged Nature Valley bar without washing hands, something I would NEVER do now.

What guidelines were you following?

The guidelines are designed more to quell the pandemic than guarantee that you personally won't get the virus. 6 feet SD accomplishes the former, not the latter.
 
Dec 10, 2005
20,752
2,153
126
Now, the real question for me was that in November of 2019, I felt like this but WORSE in a very similar manner. So, I cannot know now, but maybe I got it back then too and this is my second go around with this illness. Definitely not as worse as that experience in November 2019, where I felt like napping nearly 2 weeks straight and felt off until like January of 2020.
Given current evidence on the circulation of COVID-19, I can pretty much guarantee that you didn't have it in Nov 2019.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Muse and K1052

Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
4,694
388
126
Last time I was sick was also Nov. 2019. I had to wonder later if it was Covid-19, but it seems unlikely. Possible, yes. I was in Northern California. I was pretty sick for weeks. Upper respiratory. I figured I picked it up at a Best Buy, I was shopping laptops and messing with the keyboards, then ate a packaged Nature Valley bar without washing hands, something I would NEVER do now.

What guidelines were you following?

The guidelines are designed more to quell the pandemic than guarantee that you personally won't get the virus, keep that in mind. 6 feet SD accomplishes the former, not the latter.
For me, I remain suspicious that it was COVID because these current symptoms are like what I had in Nov 2019 but more manageable and less severe. I was knocked into prolonged sleepiness for two weeks in Nov 2019, did not even want to look at my phone's email or text messages because it was mentally "annoying". Walking up the steps, especially carrying something become a really tiring chore and I[m out of breath fast. I felt off for months, not feeling fully "revitalized" until maybe July 2020. I had tunnel vision levels of concentration and an heightened level of irritability.

This time sure feels like a second go around and less severe. I've got about 2 hours of "normal" stamina after I wake up, with the chest being "fluttery". Noontime, the fatigue starts setting in and definitely by 3pm, I want to lay down and nap. Irritability and shorter fuse is present again. I'm tired walking up stairs especially with even a mere 8lb load. I must be one of the unluckiest people in the world to have contracted two diseases with nearly identical symptoms or it's a reinfection, and while living the life of a hermit.

I know it isn't the flu because I am negative plus the flu loves clogging up my sinuses, getting the nose runny, making everything stuffy, and actually enhancing my ability to stay awake in the late stages of infection when my immune system starts winning. Gross yellow and salty mucus come out when the battle is nearly won. I have no congestion. No coughing. No feeling that my nasal tissue is abnormal at all both now or in Nov 2019.


Masks always on, keep time in public places as short as possible, avoid peak hours. No talking whatsoever since I'm around complete strangers when in a Home Depot or Walmart. I'm nervous and skittish when close to people, so wanting to stay far away is an extremely natural instinct for me. Following the guidelines is natural to me with no change in routine.

I've presumed this virus is a tough SOB and that the official infos have always underestimated its toughness.

I had no employment by Nov 2019 because of hand laceration. I then got another laceration in spring 2020.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Muse

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,225
3,152
126
For me, I remain suspicious that it was COVID because these current symptoms are like what I had in Nov 2019 but more manageable and less severe. I was knocked into prolonged sleepiness for two weeks in Nov 2019, did not even want to look at my phone's email or text messages because it was mentally "annoying". Walking up the steps, especially carrying something become a really tiring chore and I[m out of breath fast. I felt off for months, not feeling fully "revitalized" until maybe July 2020. I had tunnel vision levels of concentration and an heightened level of irritability.

This time sure feels like a second go around and less severe. I've got about 2 hours of "normal" stamina after I wake up, with the chest being "fluttery". Noontime, the fatigue starts setting in and definitely by 3pm, I want to lay down and nap. Irritability and shorter fuse is present again. I'm tired walking up stairs especially with even a mere 8lb load. I must be one of the unluckiest people in the world to have contracted two diseases with nearly identical symptoms or it's a reinfection, and while living the life of a hermit.

I know it isn't the flu because I am negative plus the flu loves clogging up my sinuses, getting the nose runny, making everything stuffy, and actually enhancing my ability to stay awake in the late stages of infection when my immune system starts winning. Gross yellow and salty mucus come out when the battle is nearly won. I have no congestion. No coughing. No feeling that my nasal tissue is abnormal at all both now or in Nov 2019.


Masks always on, keep time in public places as short as possible, avoid peak hours. No talking whatsoever since I'm around complete strangers when in a Home Depot or Walmart. I'm nervous and skittish when close to people, so wanting to stay far away is an extremely natural instinct for me. Following the guidelines is natural to me with no change in routine.

I've presumed this virus is a tough SOB and that the official infos have always underestimated its toughness.

I had no employment by Nov 2019 because of hand laceration. I then got another laceration in spring 2020.
I understand why you suspect covid-19 in Nov. 2019. Indeed it's been revealed that it was here earlier than they earlier said it was. Of course, they didn't even know the problem at the time, and I think that was Dec. 2019. Could it have been here in Nov.? I don't know the answer. Have you run this stuff by a good doctor? Many doctors are all over this. I suppose that most are not, they are busy people, but many doctors are spending a lot of their time investigating, following the pandemic, as is evidenced by the Youtube video culture around them. Dozens and dozens of videos by some of them. You might find a doctor who's likewise astute that you can see personally.

Edit: Yes, they've underestimated this virus publicly, especially at the beginning, probably still do.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY