• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

Page 532 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Dec 10, 2005
21,289
2,882
126
We've got about 14M doses in and just a really limited amount of anaphylaxis. I'm skeptical that the vaccine actually caused those deaths until proved otherwise. I'd want to see a clear trend that there is a death rate above the expected for that group who has been vaccinated compared to peers. The news is running with a lot pointing out X person died after getting the vaccine but failing to mention the cause of death is VERY unlikely to be related.
Yep - they run these stories, and the speculation flies around the world before scientists and regulatory authorities can actually analyze these cases. All it is going to do right now is fuel anti-vaccine sentiment.
 

Spacehead

Lifer
Jun 2, 2002
11,743
6,208
136
Yep - they run these stories, and the speculation flies around the world before scientists and regulatory authorities can actually analyze these cases. All it is going to do right now is fuel anti-vaccine sentiment.
Same as the story about the Dr.(i think) who tested positive after getting vaccinated. That story was all over the news & heard about it repeatedly from people at work.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
356
126
These mRNA vaccines are new and different. It's certainly possible that people have bad reactions to the vaccine (allergic or otherwise). I'm merely hopeful that the bad numbers could have an alternate explanation.

Anyway, I don't know if "weakened" is really the right word for a traditional vaccine, but I have heard that many times. If I understand correctly, I think it's supposed to be unable to reproduce in your body.
It seems that these mRNA vaccines are more or less intended to, or at least expected to, produce a more potent immune response. I believe I read that these vaccine recipients were in a class beyond "elderly and infirm" which might not have been getting the vaccines elsewhere in the world? I know we've been giving them to nursing home patients and stuff so I don't know if that is a true comparison or not. And part of the Phase 1A plans almost everywhere have been like 85+ so it may not hold water after all.

Which is to say, it might be prudent to not vaccinate the most at risk, but rather focus on vaccinating all those who come in contact with them. The traditional vaccination strategy, in other words -- some can't get vaccinated, so we lean on the notion of enough doing so that the herd protects them instead.

And as for traditional vaccines, they have been either "live attenuated" or "inactivated." The former is essentially "weakened" whereas the latter can contain either whole-cell/particle but dead, or fractions/fragments of the virus.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Captante

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
60,850
9,063
126
www.uovalor.com
If you're in a place that has a curfew make sure you have a lunch on you when going to work. This saved this woman a ticket. A piece of paper saying you're essential is not enough depending on how ruthless the officer is.

 
  • Like
Reactions: ch33zw1z

Artorias

Golden Member
Feb 8, 2014
1,546
711
136
Frisking people who, wear a mask, socially distance, and walk alone outside is the dumbest idea.

A curfew is so ridiculous. The Quebec premier is a clown, Ford is not very far behind.

Police have nothing better do eh? What a joke.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
60,850
9,063
126
www.uovalor.com
Yeah it's ridiculous. Go after people who are actually putting people in danger. They should not be bothering people who are alone or in a very small group.

Legally a lot of these encounters are unconstitutional, but it does not stop them from doing it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Artorias

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
10,212
4,236
136
This happened to some friends of ours who decided to go to Hawaii a few days after xmas. Got tested 3 days before their flight that came back negative, got tested again in Hawaii and their 2 kids came back positive and started showing symptoms. They were stuck in a room quarantining, kids got better after a few days, then the parents started getting sick. I don't think they've seen the beach since they've gotten on the island.

We were supposed to go with them and cancelled.
We were scheduled to go over NYE, but cancelled because we were worried that would happen to us.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Captante

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,394
126
Just saw on Australian News (ABC) that there were many foreigners, mostly Aussies, ignored the mandatory rule of mask when outside in Bali. Those individuals could be ban from coming back to Bali. Goodness folks, when you are in another country as a tourist/guest, you must follow that country's rule.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Captante

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
10,212
4,236
136
I don't keep up with this stuff... at all... but can you summarize up for me why big-notch companies such as J&J (and others I presume) took so much longer than Pfizer / Moderna?
Moderna for one was already under contract with NIH to do a rapid prototype test for a novel coronavirus vaccine when this hit. Also over the previous 17 years a lot of research was done on what to target and how to make a synthetic spike protein stable.

Then the mRNA vaccines only need a printout of the gnome to design. Moderna has never had the virus in it's possession.

Some of it is culture too, Moderna and BioNTech are both small and they were both saying they could do it in less than 12 months while JJ was saying 2+ years. Moderna and BioNTech were already shipping their phase 1 units before J&J even publicly announced they were going to create a vaccine candidate.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
37,519
12,056
136
This thread is fascinating. Too bad i have no real world use for this stuff.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_B_cell


Would it be safe to think you'd get the same lasting immunity from either getting Covid or getting the vaccine?
Natural immunity durability is probably going to be more variable than vaccinated immunity. What the ranges will look like (1 year, 2 years, 5 years, etc) is an open question still.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spacehead

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
106,242
21,280
146
Isn't a vaccine just a weakened form of the virus?

At what point (when you already have a compromised immune system) does it not seem.... possible, that a vaccine could have more negatives for SOME VERY VERY FEW people?

No, I'm not suggesting anti-vax shit here - just asking a question.
there is no virus in these mRNA vaccine. It's entirely synthetic, if you want to use that word.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,778
4,751
136
Frisking people who, wear a mask, socially distance, and walk alone outside is the dumbest idea.

A curfew is so ridiculous. The Quebec premier is a clown, Ford is not very far behind.

Police have nothing better do eh? What a joke.
A curfew in general is fucking dumb as shit during a pandemic. You sincerely have to be a complete dipshit to justify that.

"Hey guys, make sure when you do your shopping that you do it when everyone else does it - even if you have a night-shift job and it makes sense to do your shopping late at night!"


In actuality what they probably want is an excuse to fine people for having a house party or something?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Red Squirrel

JM Aggie08

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
7,616
344
126
Our routine has not deviated much in 10 months. Still primarily working from home, kid still being watched by the MIL. No eating at restaurants, but still eating out a ton to support the local places we love. Haven't seen my family (sister/BIL are teachers) in about a year...but, it's what is necessary right now.

Really looking forward to some return to normalcy. Not for superficial reasons -- really just want to see my family.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zorba

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,394
126
Coulda, shoulda, woulda....Too slow to response plus trying to hide at the beginning of the outbreak.

What is clear to the panel is that public health measures could have been applied more forcefully by local and national health authorities in China in January (2020)," the report said.


The first cases in Wuhan occurred between December 12 and December 29, 2019 according to city authorities. The cases weren't reported to WHO until December 31. By the time Wuhan went under lockdown on January 23, 2020 the virus had already spread to Japan, South Korea, Thailand, and the United States.
The report also highlighted that WHO did not declare the outbreak a pandemic until March 11, 2020 after some health experts and media outlets had already begun adopting the term. By that time, there were already 118,000 cases and more than 4,000 deaths worldwide

China and WHO acted too slowly to contain Covid-19, says independent panel - CNN

.
 
Last edited:
  • Haha
Reactions: ch33zw1z
Nov 8, 2012
20,778
4,751
136
Our routine has not deviated much in 10 months. Still primarily working from home, kid still being watched by the MIL. No eating at restaurants, but still eating out a ton to support the local places we love. Haven't seen my family (sister/BIL are teachers) in about a year...but, it's what is necessary right now.

Really looking forward to some return to normalcy. Not for superficial reasons -- really just want to see my family.
MIL watches our 2 kids too during the day... fucking awesomeness.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,190
852
126
The UK's Office of National Statistics and the CDC are both estimating that we have nearly 25% immunity in the US and UK:


Supposedly, this estimate accounts for antibodies becoming undetectable after some amount of time. Whether that's a conservative estimate or not, they definitely aren't suggesting immunity is close to half. We did seem to peak in daily cases a week after New Years Day but it mostly leveled instead of dropping... until this past weekend. Hopefully the steeper drop we are seeing now is more than just an artifact of the 3-day weekend (MLK Day). Regardless, this isn't a time to be relaxing. I'll be getting my mother (65+) and hopefully myself (caregiver) vaccinated as soon as humanly possible.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
10,212
4,236
136
A curfew in general is fucking dumb as shit during a pandemic. You sincerely have to be a complete dipshit to justify that.

"Hey guys, make sure when you do your shopping that you do it when everyone else does it - even if you have a night-shift job and it makes sense to do your shopping late at night!"


In actuality what they probably want is an excuse to fine people for having a house party or something?
Oklahoma had an order closing bars and restaurants after 11pm. The justification was basically the later it gets the more drunk people get and the less they respect social distancing.

It only lasted about 6 weeks, no idea if it had any effect.

I agree with you about general cerfews. When all this got started I'd grocery shop at 10pm because the store was empty.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
10,212
4,236
136

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
33,964
12,801
146
WHO had good reason to delay calling it a pandemic. They were afraid many countries would just throw up their hands, which did happen at first. There was no harm in WHO delaying and maybe some benefit.

China was obviously hiding information though.
And we only delayed for hubris and political reasons. Between fuggin up the initial testing and half the country NGAF while calling it a hoax....we dug our own grave.
 

manly

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
9,171
651
126
The UK's Office of National Statistics and the CDC are both estimating that we have nearly 25% immunity in the US and UK:


Supposedly, this estimate accounts for antibodies becoming undetectable after some amount of time. Whether that's a conservative estimate or not, they definitely aren't suggesting immunity is close to half. We did seem to peak in daily cases a week after New Years Day but it mostly leveled instead of dropping... until this past weekend. Hopefully the steeper drop we are seeing now is more than just an artifact of the 3-day weekend (MLK Day). Regardless, this isn't a time to be relaxing. I'll be getting my mother (65+) and hopefully myself (caregiver) vaccinated as soon as humanly possible.
New confirmed cases have plateaued, which is indeed encouraging, even accounting for MLK Day weekend. Even better, U.S. hospitalizations have actually backed off slightly from the all-time high. I don't think immunity is the dominant factor here, but that the holiday blitz of gatherings had its predicted effect and people's behaviors have reverted to more normal patterns. And with the B117 strain coming for us, you're absolutely right that it's too early to relax.

Of course deaths are a lagging indicator and already "baked into the pie" are two more weeks of elevated mortality.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
10,212
4,236
136
And we only delayed for hubris and political reasons. Between fuggin up the initial testing and half the country NGAF while calling it a hoax....we dug our own grave.
The fact China covered up does not excuse our horrible response at all. Including our defunding of pandemic response long before the index patient.

It is possible for China fucked up and the US fucked up to both be true. At the end of the day. China really fucked up by continuing to have wet markets. The US fucked up by defunding science and surveillance then ignoring science.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY