• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

Page 531 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
36,835
11,025
136
Let's hope for more than 1 yr. Time will tell.

The Johnson and Johnson vaccine in the pipeline is a one shot that currently shows more antibodies produced than 2 shot ones and requires nothing more than regular refrigeration. Sounds promising.

Phase 2 data looks good. Hopefully the phase 3 will be released in a week or two. As long as it all works the more the merrier.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Captante

local

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2011
1,799
454
136
Pfizer is unblinding all of Phase 3 and I can now get in line now. I am considered essential by the Texas gov but so is everyone else so I assume I will be the last person in Texas to get the vaccine.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,941
1,370
126
Multiple deaths in Norway from the vaccine from Pfizer. Mostly from the elders.

 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,228
136
Multiple deaths in Norway from the vaccine from Pfizer. Mostly from the elders.

I haven't read it yet. Considering that these people are elderly / vulnerable / at-risk, is it likely many of these deaths are unrelated to any vaccine?
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,344
4,631
136
I haven't read it yet. Considering that these people are elderly / vulnerable / at-risk, is it likely many of these deaths are unrelated to any vaccine?
Isn't a vaccine just a weakened form of the virus?

At what point (when you already have a compromised immune system) does it not seem.... possible, that a vaccine could have more negatives for SOME VERY VERY FEW people?

No, I'm not suggesting anti-vax shit here - just asking a question.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,941
1,370
126
I haven't read it yet. Considering that these people are elderly / vulnerable / at-risk, is it likely many of these deaths are unrelated to any vaccine?
Well, right now they are investigating the root cause(s). Can't say for sure the vaccine was the main reason to push those elders over the edge.

Maybe those elders had reactions to the vaccine and their frail health couldn't handle them as more healthy folks would?
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,228
136
Isn't a vaccine just a weakened form of the virus?

At what point (when you already have a compromised immune system) does it not seem.... possible, that a vaccine could have more negatives for SOME VERY VERY FEW people?

No, I'm not suggesting anti-vax shit here - just asking a question.
These mRNA vaccines are new and different. It's certainly possible that people have bad reactions to the vaccine (allergic or otherwise). I'm merely hopeful that the bad numbers could have an alternate explanation.

Anyway, I don't know if "weakened" is really the right word for a traditional vaccine, but I have heard that many times. If I understand correctly, I think it's supposed to be unable to reproduce in your body.
 
Last edited:

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,228
136
I don't keep up with this stuff... at all... but can you summarize up for me why big-notch companies such as J&J (and others I presume) took so much longer than Pfizer / Moderna?
If I understand correctly, the mRNA vaccines were developed based on the published genome - before a single case was confirmed in USA. The first one was developed before the scientists had any sample of the actual virus. It's some serious science.

That said, it's possible the virus was already spreading here. We weren't able to start testing for a while.
 
Last edited:

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
33,306
12,115
146
Multiple deaths in Norway from the vaccine from Pfizer. Mostly from the elders.

The deaths, according to that article, is all in the elders area with serious underlying conditions. 13 being confirmed, 16 pending investigation. New confirmed lower the age range from 80 to 75. The article reports more than 42,000 doses given.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
36,835
11,025
136
I don't keep up with this stuff... at all... but can you summarize up for me why big-notch companies such as J&J (and others I presume) took so much longer than Pfizer / Moderna?
Oxford was also pretty fast to develop their adenovirus vector vaccine but f'd up the trial. They already were doing extensive work on coronavirus vaccines which made the task much faster. The nature of the mRNA platform is just very very fast since all you need is the virus genome to be posted to the internet as a Chinese researcher did.

Isn't a vaccine just a weakened form of the virus?

At what point (when you already have a compromised immune system) does it not seem.... possible, that a vaccine could have more negatives for SOME VERY VERY FEW people?

No, I'm not suggesting anti-vax shit here - just asking a question.
Modern vaccines (subunit, mRNA, viral vector) work differently than older inactivated virus vaccines. A reasonably decent illustration of how an RNA vaccine works:


-1x-1.png


These mRNA vaccines are new and different. It's certainly possible that people have bad reactions to the vaccine (allergic or otherwise). I'm merely hopeful that the bad numbers could have an alternate explanation.

Anyway, I don't know if "weakened" is really the right word for a traditional vaccine, but I have heard that many times. If I understand correctly, I think it's supposed to be unable to reproduce in your body.
We've got about 14M doses in and just a really limited amount of anaphylaxis. I'm skeptical that the vaccine actually caused those deaths until proved otherwise. I'd want to see a clear trend that there is a death rate above the expected for that group who has been vaccinated compared to peers. The news is running with a lot pointing out X person died after getting the vaccine but failing to mention the cause of death is VERY unlikely to be related.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
60,078
8,764
126
www.uovalor.com
From my understanding the way coronavirus kills people is by basically your own immune system overreacting and causing lung liquid to build up and other reactions of that nature. So could it be the vaccine deaths were similar, that the immune system just overreacted to it? Maybe it's the thing of giving certain groups of people a smaller dose if they can narrow it down.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,191
845
126
From my understanding the way coronavirus kills people is by basically your own immune system overreacting and causing lung liquid to build up and other reactions of that nature. So could it be the vaccine deaths were similar, that the immune system just overreacted to it? Maybe it's the thing of giving certain groups of people a smaller dose if they can narrow it down.
I don't think it could happen that way since the spike protein doesn't carry RNA to replicate in new cells or trigger cell death.
 

Murloc

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2008
5,376
64
91
From my understanding the way coronavirus kills people is by basically your own immune system overreacting and causing lung liquid to build up and other reactions of that nature. So could it be the vaccine deaths were similar, that the immune system just overreacted to it? Maybe it's the thing of giving certain groups of people a smaller dose if they can narrow it down.
AFAIK the vaccine can cause a short reaction due to the immune system reacting, but it's not the same thing as a full-on infection.
The lung issues with the real infection usually appear only after 5 days when the infection moves down there (and not everybody have that happen, but the ones that land in hospital did).

The point stands that if you vaccinate people who are about to die, some of them will die shortly afterwards in part due to pure chance, and in part because getting a fever for one day was the last one-fingered push over the brink they needed to croak.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
60,078
8,764
126
www.uovalor.com
Makes sense, so since it's not an actual infection then there's no reason for immune system response to last long. And yeah if they were already about to die then the vaccine probably did not play much of a role in that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ichinisan

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,228
136
From my understanding the way coronavirus kills people is by basically your own immune system overreacting and causing lung liquid to build up and other reactions of that nature. So could it be the vaccine deaths were similar, that the immune system just overreacted to it? Maybe it's the thing of giving certain groups of people a smaller dose if they can narrow it down.
Perhaps these elderly / vulnerable / at-risk people are already more death-prone than the average person, regardless of whether-or-not they received a vaccine. These deaths might be unrelated.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY