NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

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K1052

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
39,661
16,810
136
allisolm said:
Let's hope for more than 1 yr. Time will tell.

The Johnson and Johnson vaccine in the pipeline is a one shot that currently shows more antibodies produced than 2 shot ones and requires nothing more than regular refrigeration. Sounds promising.

www.latimes.com

Johnson & Johnson's one-shot COVID-19 vaccine grants promising response in early study

In an early safety study, Johnson & Johnson's one-shot COVID-19 vaccine produced immune proteins in more than 90% of participants.
www.latimes.com www.latimes.com
Click to expand...
Phase 2 data looks good. Hopefully the phase 3 will be released in a week or two. As long as it all works the more the merrier.
 
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local

local

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2011
1,844
495
136
Pfizer is unblinding all of Phase 3 and I can now get in line now. I am considered essential by the Texas gov but so is everyone else so I assume I will be the last person in Texas to get the vaccine.
 
S

s0me0nesmind1

Lifer
Nov 8, 2012
20,778
4,758
136
Ichinisan said:
I haven't read it yet. Considering that these people are elderly / vulnerable / at-risk, is it likely many of these deaths are unrelated to any vaccine?
Click to expand...
Isn't a vaccine just a weakened form of the virus?

At what point (when you already have a compromised immune system) does it not seem.... possible, that a vaccine could have more negatives for SOME VERY VERY FEW people?

No, I'm not suggesting anti-vax shit here - just asking a question.
 
Svnla

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,394
126
Ichinisan said:
I haven't read it yet. Considering that these people are elderly / vulnerable / at-risk, is it likely many of these deaths are unrelated to any vaccine?
Click to expand...
Well, right now they are investigating the root cause(s). Can't say for sure the vaccine was the main reason to push those elders over the edge.

Maybe those elders had reactions to the vaccine and their frail health couldn't handle them as more healthy folks would?
 
Ichinisan

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,232
136
s0me0nesmind1 said:
Isn't a vaccine just a weakened form of the virus?

At what point (when you already have a compromised immune system) does it not seem.... possible, that a vaccine could have more negatives for SOME VERY VERY FEW people?

No, I'm not suggesting anti-vax shit here - just asking a question.
Click to expand...
These mRNA vaccines are new and different. It's certainly possible that people have bad reactions to the vaccine (allergic or otherwise). I'm merely hopeful that the bad numbers could have an alternate explanation.

Anyway, I don't know if "weakened" is really the right word for a traditional vaccine, but I have heard that many times. If I understand correctly, I think it's supposed to be unable to reproduce in your body.
 
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Ichinisan

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,232
136
s0me0nesmind1 said:
I don't keep up with this stuff... at all... but can you summarize up for me why big-notch companies such as J&J (and others I presume) took so much longer than Pfizer / Moderna?
Click to expand...
If I understand correctly, the mRNA vaccines were developed based on the published genome - before a single case was confirmed in USA. The first one was developed before the scientists had any sample of the actual virus. It's some serious science.

That said, it's possible the virus was already spreading here. We weren't able to start testing for a while.
 
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ch33zw1z

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
35,061
14,150
146
Svnla said:
Multiple deaths in Norway from the vaccine from Pfizer. Mostly from the elders.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com
Click to expand...
The deaths, according to that article, is all in the elders area with serious underlying conditions. 13 being confirmed, 16 pending investigation. New confirmed lower the age range from 80 to 75. The article reports more than 42,000 doses given.
 
K1052

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
39,661
16,810
136
s0me0nesmind1 said:
I don't keep up with this stuff... at all... but can you summarize up for me why big-notch companies such as J&J (and others I presume) took so much longer than Pfizer / Moderna?
Click to expand...
Oxford was also pretty fast to develop their adenovirus vector vaccine but f'd up the trial. They already were doing extensive work on coronavirus vaccines which made the task much faster. The nature of the mRNA platform is just very very fast since all you need is the virus genome to be posted to the internet as a Chinese researcher did.

s0me0nesmind1 said:
Isn't a vaccine just a weakened form of the virus?

At what point (when you already have a compromised immune system) does it not seem.... possible, that a vaccine could have more negatives for SOME VERY VERY FEW people?

No, I'm not suggesting anti-vax shit here - just asking a question.
Click to expand...
Modern vaccines (subunit, mRNA, viral vector) work differently than older inactivated virus vaccines. A reasonably decent illustration of how an RNA vaccine works:


-1x-1.png


Ichinisan said:
These mRNA vaccines are new and different. It's certainly possible that people have bad reactions to the vaccine (allergic or otherwise). I'm merely hopeful that the bad numbers could have an alternate explanation.

Anyway, I don't know if "weakened" is really the right word for a traditional vaccine, but I have heard that many times. If I understand correctly, I think it's supposed to be unable to reproduce in your body.
Click to expand...
We've got about 14M doses in and just a really limited amount of anaphylaxis. I'm skeptical that the vaccine actually caused those deaths until proved otherwise. I'd want to see a clear trend that there is a death rate above the expected for that group who has been vaccinated compared to peers. The news is running with a lot pointing out X person died after getting the vaccine but failing to mention the cause of death is VERY unlikely to be related.
 
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Red Squirrel

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
62,632
9,765
126
twitter.com
From my understanding the way coronavirus kills people is by basically your own immune system overreacting and causing lung liquid to build up and other reactions of that nature. So could it be the vaccine deaths were similar, that the immune system just overreacted to it? Maybe it's the thing of giving certain groups of people a smaller dose if they can narrow it down.
 
CZroe

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
856
126
Red Squirrel said:
From my understanding the way coronavirus kills people is by basically your own immune system overreacting and causing lung liquid to build up and other reactions of that nature. So could it be the vaccine deaths were similar, that the immune system just overreacted to it? Maybe it's the thing of giving certain groups of people a smaller dose if they can narrow it down.
Click to expand...
I don't think it could happen that way since the spike protein doesn't carry RNA to replicate in new cells or trigger cell death.
 
Murloc

Murloc

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2008
5,381
64
91
Red Squirrel said:
From my understanding the way coronavirus kills people is by basically your own immune system overreacting and causing lung liquid to build up and other reactions of that nature. So could it be the vaccine deaths were similar, that the immune system just overreacted to it? Maybe it's the thing of giving certain groups of people a smaller dose if they can narrow it down.
Click to expand...
AFAIK the vaccine can cause a short reaction due to the immune system reacting, but it's not the same thing as a full-on infection.
The lung issues with the real infection usually appear only after 5 days when the infection moves down there (and not everybody have that happen, but the ones that land in hospital did).

The point stands that if you vaccinate people who are about to die, some of them will die shortly afterwards in part due to pure chance, and in part because getting a fever for one day was the last one-fingered push over the brink they needed to croak.
 
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Red Squirrel

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
62,632
9,765
126
twitter.com
Makes sense, so since it's not an actual infection then there's no reason for immune system response to last long. And yeah if they were already about to die then the vaccine probably did not play much of a role in that.
 
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Ichinisan

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,232
136
Red Squirrel said:
From my understanding the way coronavirus kills people is by basically your own immune system overreacting and causing lung liquid to build up and other reactions of that nature. So could it be the vaccine deaths were similar, that the immune system just overreacted to it? Maybe it's the thing of giving certain groups of people a smaller dose if they can narrow it down.
Click to expand...
Perhaps these elderly / vulnerable / at-risk people are already more death-prone than the average person, regardless of whether-or-not they received a vaccine. These deaths might be unrelated.
 
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