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NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

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Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
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Genetic scientists published what has been called a "landmark" study in Nature Medicine back in March:
https://news.tulane.edu/pr/study-coronavirus-pandemic-sparked-nature-not-bioengineering
Originating from a lab does not mean "engineered." Wuhan laboratories specifically studied "gain of function" experiments with bat coronavirus.

From the earlier article:

Asked about whether this implies that the virus is not natural, Sørensen goes on to explain the laboratory process that leads to the creation of new viruses.
“In a sense it is natural. But the natural processes have most likely been accelerated in a laboratory,” he explains. “It’s also possible for a virus to attain these properties in nature, but it’s not likely. If the mutations had happened in nature, we would have most likely seen that the virus had attracted other properties through mutations, not just properties that help the virus to attach itself to human cells.”
Sørensen vividly explains this argument:
“Imagine that you have cultivated a billion coronaviruses you have gathered from nature, then you take this mass of viruses and inject them into a human cell culture from for example the upper respiratory tract. As a result, a few of these viruses will change in order to better attach themselves to this type of cell in the nose and throat region and therefore to infect humans more easily. You end up with a virus with a spike protein which is perfect for attaching to and penetrating human cells.” Sørensen explains.
Asked about the particular mutations in the virus that lead to this conclusion, Sørensens says:
“What we see is that an area that you could observe in the first SARS coronavirus has been moved, so that the parts of the virus that are particularly well suited to attach to humans, have become part of the spike protein that the virus uses to penetrate human cells. And it is this moving of the area of the virus which makes the virus, together with the injected areas explained above, able to utilise an additional receptor to infect humans.”
It's also worth noting that all the ones animals are catching right now descended from the virus we first identified infecting humans. Natural genetic drift and heredity can be tracked with surprising precision by comparing sequenced samples.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,792
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Indeed, CA isn't doing great. Per-capita FL is about twice as bad though.
In a year I think FL and TX are going to be seen as disasters. Stupid governors, stupid citizens. Way too many people who just don't give a sh^t. Plus FL has so many old people. CA may avoid disaster because the governor has brains and so do a whole lot of Californians. Plenty don't, though. It's a damn good thing this is an election year. Hopefully we can separate the wheat from the chaff.
 
Mar 11, 2004
21,606
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In Phoenix metro area, and pretty disappointed at how many stores have "masks mandatory" (pretty sure its city mandate) but aren't actually enforcing it. I feel for the employees as they're busy and wearing masks and I'm sure its not only not worth their time to hassle people about it but likely could be outright detrimental. But still. There's quite a few that have masks but are wearing them under their chins (I'm guessing so they can say they were wearing masks if they get hassled about it).
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,792
4,167
126
That just sounds like everything I've argued as speculation is just speculation. Possibly biased. Why is real science under attack?
Because it doesn't let you pretend to know what you're talking about (which non-science types like to do):

Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche quotation recommending everyone should learn at least one science thoroughly

"Clever people may learn as much as they wish of the results of science--still one will always notice in their conversation, and especially in their hypotheses, that they lack the scientific spirit; they do not have that instinctive mistrust of the aberrations of thought which through long training are deeply rooted in the soul of every scientific person. They are content to find any hypothesis at all concerning some matter; then they are all fire and flame for it and think that is enough. To have an opinion means for them to fanaticize for it and thenceforth to press it to their hearts as a conviction. If something is unexplained, they grow hot over the first notion that comes into their heads and looks like an explanation--which results progressively in the worst consequences, especially in the sphere of politics. For that reason everyone should now study at least one science from the bottom up: then he will know what method means and how important is the utmost circumspection." -- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,792
4,167
126
Originating from a lab does not mean "engineered." Wuhan Institute of Virology has specifically been conducting "gain of function" experiments with bat coronavirus.

From the earlier article:



It's also worth noting that all the ones animals are catching right now descended from the virus we first identified infecting humans. Natural genetic drift and heredity can be tracked with surprising precision by comparing sequenced samples.
Yes, I think it's quite possible SARS-CoV-2 escaped from a Wuhan lab but I don't think they engineered it (if that's the case), it just escaped. At the time they didn't know how dangerous it was. Several of the top Chinese virologists working on CV projects at the labs mysteriously disappeared.

What good does it do to mull over all this? Our mission is to get over this any way we can, not figure out what happened at the end of 2019.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,230
136
Yes, I think it's quite possible SARS-CoV-2 escaped from a Wuhan lab but I don't think they engineered it (if that's the case), it just escaped. At the time they didn't know how dangerous it was. Several of the top Chinese virologists working on CV projects at the labs mysteriously disappeared.
Not only that. China shut down the lab that published the genome sequence. It was published after CCP had forbidden the release of any information related to the virus, but Tedross / WHO still praised China for releasing the genome and being "transparent." It's crazy world.

What good does it do to mull over all this? Our mission is to get over this any way we can, not figure out what happened at the end of 2019.
What good does it do to investigate the cause of any accident? You take disciplinary or corrective measures to discourage any future reoccurrence. We might also have a better idea what we are dealing with.

The design and procedures of the Chernobyl plant were said to make such accidents impossible, but we have a good idea what happened after studying and investigating. We learned what not to do.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
37,837
12,584
136
A number of states reporting new daily records. FL exceeds 11K in one day.

The idea of pro sports and in person college this year seems more remote with every passing day. Washington state had 100 cases from frat parties which are apparently still a thing in the middle of summer when there is a pandemic.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,778
4,752
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A number of states reporting new daily records. FL exceeds 11K in one day.

The idea of pro sports and in person college this year seems more remote with every passing day. Washington state had 100 cases from frat parties which are apparently still a thing in the middle of summer when there is a pandemic.
Fuck yeah. We break all the records bitches! We win all the medals!
 

Spacehead

Lifer
Jun 2, 2002
11,993
6,857
136
In Phoenix metro area, and pretty disappointed at how many stores have "masks mandatory" (pretty sure its city mandate) but aren't actually enforcing it. I feel for the employees as they're busy and wearing masks and I'm sure its not only not worth their time to hassle people about it but likely could be outright detrimental. But still. There's quite a few that have masks but are wearing them under their chins (I'm guessing so they can say they were wearing masks if they get hassled about it).
Here in PA i'm not sure there is any enforcement of mask wearing. I mean most store have a "mask required" sign on the door but i don't know if there is really anything they can do if someone doesn't wear one.
Governor Wolf said masks were supposed to be worn in public but not even sure that is enforceable. Nothing said about fines.
Giant Eagle grocery stores have a lawsuit against them already for making mask wearing mandatory & having employees trying to enforce it. Call the cops... it's probably another lawsuit waiting to happen there these days.

Each state or locality should be able to say "this is mandatory & it will be enforced!"
 
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Dec 10, 2005
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Giant Eagle grocery stores have a lawsuit against them already for making mask wearing mandatory & having employees trying to enforce it.
On what basis could someone sue over the mask requirement?

If it's people claiming "ADA", what they don't realize is that ADA only provides for "reasonable accommodation". All the store has to legally do is offer to shop for the customer and bring the groceries outside.
 

Spacehead

Lifer
Jun 2, 2002
11,993
6,857
136
On what basis could someone sue over the mask requirement?

If it's people claiming "ADA", what they don't realize is that ADA only provides for "reasonable accommodation". All the store has to legally do is offer to shop for the customer and bring the groceries outside.
Because they can i guess. And they're butt-hurt because employees singled them out & yelled at some of them.

Giant Eagle facing 34 lawsuits over mask policy

In his filings, he wrote that the chain's corporate policy violates the Americans With Disabilities Act, treating customers with disabilities as "lepers" rather than guests.

And many of his clients allege they were treated rudely, yelled at or humiliated for not wearing masks by management or employees – even if they listed their medical reasons for not being masked.

Area stores advise customers that masks are required for entry. While Giant Eagle's website did not appear to list a mask policy, it noted steps taken to promote social distancing – such as one-way aisles and no-contact curbside pickup – among measures that go "above and beyond" to protect employees and customers.
Not sure why they aren't offering to shop for people. Maybe they are & it just isn't reported???
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
21,927
3,535
126
Not sure why they aren't offering to shop for people. Maybe they are & it just isn't reported???
giant eagle has a bunch of places doing curbside pickup. all the walmarts are doing it, and even the little non-chain grocery stores are doing it as well.

none of my relatives have gone inside a grocery store for months
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,363
13,203
126
Because it doesn't let you pretend to know what you're talking about (which non-science types like to do):

Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche quotation recommending everyone should learn at least one science thoroughly

"Clever people may learn as much as they wish of the results of science--still one will always notice in their conversation, and especially in their hypotheses, that they lack the scientific spirit; they do not have that instinctive mistrust of the aberrations of thought which through long training are deeply rooted in the soul of every scientific person. They are content to find any hypothesis at all concerning some matter; then they are all fire and flame for it and think that is enough. To have an opinion means for them to fanaticize for it and thenceforth to press it to their hearts as a conviction. If something is unexplained, they grow hot over the first notion that comes into their heads and looks like an explanation--which results progressively in the worst consequences, especially in the sphere of politics. For that reason everyone should now study at least one science from the bottom up: then he will know what method means and how important is the utmost circumspection." -- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
Its fascinating to me how thousands of years of philosophy have accurately predicted the horrible situation we're in right here during the 21st century.
The wise old Greek intellectuals knew the kind of shit we'd be dealing with today. And they told us. And most of us didnt fucking listen.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2015
9,404
5,553
146
Its fascinating to me how thousands of years of philosophy have accurately predicted the horrible situation we're in right here during the 21st century.
The wise old Greek intellectuals knew the kind of shit we'd be dealing with today. And they told us. And most of us didnt fucking listen.
That's what made them wise. They knew we wouldn't listen, so they knew what we'd be dealing with.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,363
13,203
126
On what basis could someone sue over the mask requirement?

If it's people claiming "ADA", what they don't realize is that ADA only provides for "reasonable accommodation". All the store has to legally do is offer to shop for the customer and bring the groceries outside.
Its funny how the same group of people who said its legal for a cake shop owner to discriminate against gays on the basis of private business doing what it wants are now saying its against the law to force a dress code on customers or kick them out of their store.
 

njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,191
172
106
I may or may not have just had this (LA County). My PCR test came back negative, but I've read those are only 60-70% accurate and I had mostly gastrointestinal symtoms for 8 days (feeling pretty much back to normal now).

  • Complete loss of appetite for days. Nausea as well. I lost over 5lbs over a 5-6 day span. Regained maybe 1-2lbs of that after I started forcing it down.
  • Diarrhea earlier on.
  • Occasional temperatures spikes: highest I recorded was 99.6F orally. Lowest was 95.9F and I actually felt sickest when it was lowest.
  • Difficulty staying warm. I was comfortable in sweats and a sweater in a 80F apartment. Normally 70-72F has me wearing shorts.
  • Crazy night sweats and chills that really hurt my sleep.
  • General buzzed feeling as if I was running a high fever but without the fever. I woke up once convinced I was running a fever only to measure 96.1F.
  • Feeling like I was going to lose my mind or have a panic attack - the symtoms were odd and would come and go, really questioning my sanity over all of it.
  • Occasionally my tongue felt cold or slightly numb as if it had some novocaine injected into it.
  • Burning / irritarion in my chest, right side, similar to the feeling I had at the end of recovering from viral bronchitis. It's not something that causes a cough.
  • I also had brief periods where I felt completely fine.
7 days prior to symtom onset we checked out a vacant home on the market. That was the only place we were indoors (and masked). We also ordered Veggie Grill afterward, so something could have came in through the food. I cannot think of anything else since that could have exposed us to anything.

Symtoms went on of varying intensity for about 7-8 days. The worst were days 3-5. The test was taken on the morning of day 4. Result received 24 hours later. My wife and son both remained fine. Now that I feel "normal" again, I know a majority of my symtoms were real. I've had Norovirus before, food poisoning, etc. But never had any of those draw out for so long.

So yeah, maybe or not. Because my symptoms seem to align with the "gastrointestinal version" of COVID - a poop sample may have been better but that wasn't offered. There's not much point to an antibody test follow up later because those are not accurate either.

All I can do is assume that it was not COVID and continue to be safe.
 
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K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
37,837
12,584
136
I may or may not have just had this (LA County). My PCR test came back negative, but I've read those are only 60-70% accurate and I had mostly gastrointestinal symtoms for 8 days (feeling pretty much back to normal now).

  • Complete loss of appetite for days. Nausea as well. I lost over 5lbs over a 5-6 day span. Regained maybe 1-2lbs of that after I started forcing it down.
  • Diarrhea earlier on.
  • Occasional temperatures spikes: highest I recorded was 99.6F orally. Lowest was 95.9F and I actually felt sickest when it was lowest.
  • Difficulty staying warm. I was comfortable in sweats and a sweater in a 80F apartment. Normally 70-72F has me wearing shorts.
  • Crazy night sweats and chills that really hurt my sleep.
  • General buzzed feeling as if I was running a high fever but without the fever. I woke up once convinced I was running a fever only to measure 96.1F.
  • Feeling like I was going to lose my mind or have a panic attack - the symtoms were odd and would come and go, really questioning my sanity over all of it.
  • Occasionally my tongue felt cold or slightly numb as if it had some novocaine injected into it.
  • Burning / irritarion in my chest, right side, similar to the feeling I had at the end of recovering from viral bronchitis. It's not something that causes a cough.
  • I also had brief periods where I felt completely fine.
7 days prior to symtom onset we checked out a vacant home on the market. That was the only place we were indoors (and masked). We also ordered Veggie Grill afterward, so something could have came in through the food. I cannot think of anything else since that could have exposed us to anything.

Symtoms went on of varying intensity for about 7-8 days. The worst were days 3-5. The test was taken on the morning of day 4. Result received 24 hours later. My wife and son both remained fine. Now that I feel "normal" again, I know a majority of my symtoms were real. I've had Norovirus before, food poisoning, etc. But never had any of those draw out for so long.

So yeah, maybe or not. Because my symptoms seem to align with the "gastrointestinal version" of COVID - a poop sample may have been better but that wasn't offered. There's not much point to an antibody test follow up later because those are not accurate either.

All I can do is assume that it was not COVID and continue to be safe.
Antibody tests are so readily available now that there is no real reason not to get one IMO. If it comes up negative combined with the negative PCR I'd probably wager you didn't get it. Surface contact transmission potential of COVID is now thought to be very unlikely so I doubt it was the food and a vacant home should present no real danger of infection. There are still a lot of other pathogens running around out there which could make somebody this sick.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,230
136
Its funny how the same group of people who said its legal for a cake shop owner to discriminate against gays on the basis of private business doing what it wants are now saying its against the law to force a dress code on customers or kick them out of their store.
I dunno. I say a private store should have a right to deny whoever they want, and consumers have a right to boycott them or support them.

I have no doubt there are people with ideological contradictions on this. Is there anyone specific you can point to?

If I have a choice between a store that requires masks and one that doesn't, I'll visit the one requiring masks.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,792
4,167
126
A number of states reporting new daily records. FL exceeds 11K in one day.

The idea of pro sports and in person college this year seems more remote with every passing day. Washington state had 100 cases from frat parties which are apparently still a thing in the middle of summer when there is a pandemic.
I didn't go to a single frat party at the U. I wasn't the type.

I'm being so careful. I mean if you get within 6 feet of me, I'm going the other way, I don't care who you are.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,792
4,167
126
Its too bad we in Texas couldnt just get a participation trophy.
Saw some TV network news info tonight on Texas right now. They interviewed the mayor of Austin. Texas is blowing up. It's getting pretty bad right now, but by August ... hey, I haven't been hearing the word "exponential" at all lately like I did 2-3 months ago, but the charts are looking that way to me.
 

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