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NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,176
3,980
126
Agree to disagree on that point :). Both for covid19 and the troops :).

On another note : Do men get this thing 2x more than women???? Is that because we are more susceptible or cause we not brain as good?
Is it that they get it more or that they have worse outcomes? I think men have a much higher smoking rate and that would certainly play into the outcomes being more severe.
 
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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
62,461
15,762
136
I read an article this morning about the virus and zoo animals. Unfortunately the article is behind a paywall. The first point was that there is direct evidence of a dog carrying the virus in its mouth and stool though the virus did not infect the dog (just passed through). Modeling suggests that domestic cats may be susceptible to the virus but no cases have been documented. Pig studies are underway to see if hogs are susceptible to the virus.
The second point that I think important is that quaternerary ammonium-based cleaners are fairly ineffective against the virus as they need at least ten minutes of contact time to destroy the virus and people rarely use these cleaners in a manner that provides the necessary contact time. Wiping on/wiping off won't do it.

Edit: Hogs are susceptible, studies are determining degree and pathways.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
16,719
6,534
136
I read an article this morning about the virus and zoo animals. Unfortunately the article is behind a paywall. The first point was that there is direct evidence of a dog carrying the virus in its mouth and stool though the virus did not infect the dog (just passed through). Modeling suggests that domestic cats may be susceptible to the virus but no cases have been documented. Pig studies are underway to see if hogs are susceptible to the virus.
The second point that I think important is that quaternerary ammonium-based cleaners are fairly ineffective against the virus as they need at least ten minutes of contact time to destroy the virus and people rarely use these cleaners in a manner that provides the necessary contact time. Wiping on/wiping off won't do it.
Copy. Gamma it is. 1 million rads.
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
17,691
6,678
136
The second point that I think important is that quaternerary ammonium-based cleaners are fairly ineffective against the virus as they need at least ten minutes of contact time to destroy the virus and people rarely use these cleaners in a manner that provides the necessary contact time. Wiping on/wiping off won't do it.
How is hydrogen peroxide holding up against it?
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,176
3,980
126
I ran across an interesting article this morning.

"Fortunately, there is one almost “pure” location for coronavirus data, and that is Princess Cruise’s Diamond Princess cruise ship. This was the ship moored along California’s coast while the government tried to determine the best way to deal with a floating virus bomb. Writing at Watts Up With That, Willis Eischenbach looked at the Princess Cruise’s numbers and discovered some encouraging information:"

83% of the passengers on the ship never got the virus. There is a link within the article that gives the breakdown by age group. It's not what you would expect.

"What an excellent question. Why did 83% of the ship's passengers walk away unscathed?

It’s an especially good question because the majority of passengers were in the 60-79 age group, weighted slightly more heavily towards the 70-79 cohort. In other words, by the time the ship docked, it should have been a floating morgue, but somehow it wasn’t."

Click to read more.

That link is far from a scientific assessment of the situation with regard to the Diamond Princess. In fact it relies mostly on the writings of Willis Eschenbach, a famed global warming skeptic, which proves that he and his assertions should be viewed with mistrust, to put it mildly.

I met Willis Eschenbach in the early 1970's when he was something of a vagabond with guitar on Maui. We worked together in Dave Gibson's cabinet shop in Makawao. He was an interesting guy then, a sort of one of a kind card and impressive in his wood working skills. I discovered a few years ago that he'd become a carpenter and global warming skeptic. I recommend taking his analysis on the pandemic with a pound of salt. He's probably looking for attention when you boil it down.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,176
3,980
126
We're fucked. Actually the health care system is fucked. Once people get back to regular routines the curve will shoot up again.

This thing spreads like wildfire, we can stop it now, but once community cases rise again its game over, there will be no round 2 self isolation, were all going to have to bite the bullet.

Look at Iran, mass graves appearing everyday.
Here's something to consider. Different places appear to be having very different scenarios and it's being said that weather conditions are involved and that therefore, this may play out as a seasonal problem (in a similar way to how the flu is seasonal).
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,180
2,454
126
Update on my end: Today made a stop to pick up an order I had made like...2 weeks ago for some clothes. Went in and out there - very easy, no issues.

Next it was to the grocery store before the rapture I mean apocalypse. My goal: Stock up on stuff for minimal 2 weeks without needing to return for at least that amount of time. We have a few brands of grocery stores in our area.... one of them is only letting in a certain number of people at a time, and another one across the street lets people come in and out at will. While I get the point of only letting a certain number in at a time, I think it's incredibly stupid to sit outside in a single file line as you all sit there next to one another for 30 minutes. It defeats the purpose of trying to remain more sanitary inside.

So I opted for the other grocery store... Surprisingly, the produce looked absolutely full for the most part. Lots of bread, bakery stuff, sandwich meat, etc. The meat was a bit picked over - but they still had plenty of ground beef, steaks, sausage, and pork. Main thing I didn't see a lot of was stuff like fresh chicken breasts (though there were full chickens and frozen varieties). Most people seemed chill - even to the point of stopping by eachother and talking to neighbors.

So overall this brought me to 2 questions:



1) How much do you guys think that the US population is just mostly oblivious to COVID-19 - or that think it's not a big deal? While people like us our freaking out - keep in mind plenty of people in this country are too stupid to even know the current news, or if/when it's election day.


2) Do you think down the line in a few weeks we will start to see things like produce take a hit? Once it hits countries like Mexico and LATAM, I would think that would very much affect what we see in the grocery store more, no?
I think if this continues, there will be excess food and produce. Think about how much produce restaurants, schools, and other places used everyday. That demand is pretty much all gone. Regular US population can't cook and can't use up all those produce and veggies. There's going to be oversupply and farmers are going to get killed. Why do I think this? Because I watch and follow the news and TV programs out of South Korea. That's what is happening there right now. Farmers can't sell their produce and it's all rotting in the warehouses. Farmers lives are getting destroyed and they're crying on TV. It's heartbreaking to watch.

Certain food and produce items will be harder to source because of the shutdown in many foreign places. But if you're willing to pay, anything and everything will be available. So if there's anything you like, just get it now while it's plentiful. You don't have to fight anybody over it. That's what I did when I went on my Sunday night grocery run when I figured this shutdown was coming to the US.
 
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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
62,461
15,762
136
Add vinegar?
Vinegar requires one minute contact time.

"The most efficient disinfectant remains alcoholic compounds, but with appropriate contact time: propranolol (100% or 70%) or ethanol (70%) for a minimum of 30 sec. For other compounds such as quaternary ammonium or phenolic compounds, efficient contact time regarding coronavirus is usually 10 minutes. Other disinfectants that could be used include wine vinegar (1 minute), sodium chlorite (1-2 minutes), hydrogen peroxide (usually 2 minutes)."
 
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randay

Lifer
May 30, 2006
11,019
216
106
Instead of studying whats going on in the worst off countries, we need to be studying Japans "outbreak" and doing exactly what they are doing. Every time Ive been to Japan to visit, face masks were like a fashion statement. People cleaned up after themselves. This is a country so packed that there is no such thing as personal space. And yet they are doing just fine in terms of numbers.

Whats up with that?
 

brainhulk

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2007
9,418
453
126
Instead of studying whats going on in the worst off countries, we need to be studying Japans "outbreak" and doing exactly what they are doing. Every time Ive been to Japan to visit, face masks were like a fashion statement. People cleaned up after themselves. This is a country so packed that there is no such thing as personal space. And yet they are doing just fine in terms of numbers.

Whats up with that?
Viruses don't like nuclear radiation
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,778
4,750
136
Instead of studying whats going on in the worst off countries, we need to be studying Japans "outbreak" and doing exactly what they are doing. Every time Ive been to Japan to visit, face masks were like a fashion statement. People cleaned up after themselves. This is a country so packed that there is no such thing as personal space. And yet they are doing just fine in terms of numbers.

Whats up with that?
So we should lie about our numbers and say "Everything is A-Okay - Come join us for the olympics!" ?

I will give them credit though, in general Japan has an amazing culture that actually is very independent and hard-working like American's - but unlike American's they aren't assholes and are actually considerate to others.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,180
2,454
126
Instead of studying whats going on in the worst off countries, we need to be studying Japans "outbreak" and doing exactly what they are doing. Every time Ive been to Japan to visit, face masks were like a fashion statement. People cleaned up after themselves. This is a country so packed that there is no such thing as personal space. And yet they are doing just fine in terms of numbers.

Whats up with that?
No one trusts Japan's number. Japan has their head in the sand. They think ignoring it will make the problem go away. Because if they test and reveal more reasonable number, they know they can kiss the Olympics goodbye. Japan should be condemned right now. No one should look or try to emulate Japan right now. I trust China over Japan at the moment.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2015
9,090
5,231
146
So we should lie about our numbers and say "Everything is A-Okay - Come join us for the olympics!" ?

I will give them credit though, in general Japan has an amazing culture that actually is very independent and hard-working like American's - but unlike American's they aren't assholes and are actually considerate to others.
Yeah.. They have a vested interest in fudging numbers right now. It could be legitimate though.

As an aside, Isreal is now under lockdown.

Article referencing what I was alluding to earlier, we may not 'return to normal', we may be seeing a new normal.
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
21,591
3,288
126
That link is far from a scientific assessment of the situation with regard to the Diamond Princess. In fact it relies mostly on the writings of Willis Eschenbach, a famed global warming skeptic, which proves that he and his assertions should be viewed with mistrust, to put it mildly.
yeah, americanthinker in general is waaayy out there
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,176
3,980
126
everyone: get over your petty online vendettas that seem to last years. just, get over it. no one cares.
He's righteously pissed off, and I respect that. He's got a sore throat, hasn't said so out right IIRC, but apparently suspects he's coming down with this and remembers Amused poo-pooing the threat. I would not characterize this as a petty exchange all in all.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
24,156
1,811
126
You're probably correct with your first statement and it's something I've been thinking about as well. However. if it comes to quarantining/isolating myself for 12+ months or taking my chances, I'm taking my chances. I tend to agree with the doctor in the article posted a few posts above - it's probably already too late. At this stage, I'd recommend ramping up medical production, keep the quarantine in place for a couple months to buy time, and then relax it. Keep nursing homes isolated longer if they must, but at some point, people have to live life and can't remain sheltered forever. The damage to the economy, standard of living, and the world itself from isolating everyone for 12-18 months is likely far more than the damage from the virus.
Unfortunately, if you live in one of the big government nanny states like Connecticut or New York, you're not really given the option of "taking your chances". They've basically shut down everything but grocery stores and pharmacies at this point. Malls, schools, restaurants, movie theaters, hair salons... all shut down. It's only a matter of time before they do something really drastic like enacting an overnight curfew.

I know, I know... no politics. But, seriously, it's starting to feel like I live in Soviet Russia now.
 
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sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
85,403
9,589
126
Instead of studying whats going on in the worst off countries, we need to be studying Japans "outbreak" and doing exactly what they are doing. Every time Ive been to Japan to visit, face masks were like a fashion statement. People cleaned up after themselves. This is a country so packed that there is no such thing as personal space. And yet they are doing just fine in terms of numbers.

Whats up with that?
Culture. Japanese know they are in a tight space and try to not be a bother to other people. On the other hand, they are pretty bad with coverups as well. As in they will try to coverup if they think they can get away with it.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,176
3,980
126
If you're going to order stuff on Amazon, now's the time...



I ordered coffee filters and zinc supplement drops from them yesterday. I think that falls within that purview. They aren't in stock, are expected in stock in around a week. I've been hitting Amazon more than usual... by a lot this year so far! Being shelter in place, there's not a lot I can do otherwise. I have made some ebay orders too, also mostly health related stuff.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,176
3,980
126
Look, I'm not the most social person - in fact, I pretty much hate crowds and stuff like that. But I am not willing to live as a prisoner in my own home for 12-18 months or longer. And what if they can't develop a successful vaccine? What then? Are supposed to live like this for years?

No. I'll give them their 2 months. Heck, I'll give them until the end of summer if necessary. But when fall rolls around, I'm done with this crap and will take my chances.
Why don't you do the grown up thing and live in the moment? The situation is going to continue to change on a daily basis. What we know is going to morph, studies will flesh out, discoveries will be made, statistical analyses will emerge. Don't make up your mind now how you are going to behave in 2 months with regard to this.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,176
3,980
126
is this rapid spread a testament to how lazy and stupid Americans are? People just dont know how to wash their hands properly or refuse to do it?
Or is it possible we've been lied to about how effective soap and hot water are, and keeping distant?
All of the above and more.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
106,176
21,177
136
I think you're 100% wrong. Of course, we won't be able to prove it. But I trust South Korean government and what they say over our CDC and our inept government. This isn't South Korea's first rodeo. It's ours.
just, no: the point of not wearing the masks is that you are taking them from the people that actually need them: medical professionals and the sick. full stop. don't pass go. You don't fucking need it if you haven't tested positive. the end.

There are many very common, very simple, very easy "non-material requiring" techniques that you can learn, if you haven't already learned, to do the same thing. Simple aseptic technique. Learn to use your elbows. learn to use your hips to open things. be aware of where your hands are at all times. learn how to distance yourself. be aware of your surroundings.

It's a simple matter of fact that anyone without need of a proper mask, taking it away from the frontline people that actually need it, are by association contributing to the problem. I'm sorry that you don't believe this, but it is plainly fucking true.

Amused is correct. you've all lost your minds, and I'm tired of seeing this nonsense spread online by a bunch of people that should otherwise be reasonable and capable of learning from actual experts that work in this field, that have experience with aseptic technique, and understand how viruses transmit, and how to avoid it.

I'm tired of reading from people that are confused that they very same active ingredients in comparable products might not be the same. it's fucking obnoxious. Stop spreading stupid, destructive, dangerous information because "it feels right to you."

I understand that a lot of people are suddenly becoming aware of this, but for fucks sake--there are many of us that do this in our daily lives. we are used to keeping things sterile, and protecting ourselves from scary shit. Some of us have up to BSL2 training. Just don't assume you know more than those people because a bunch of fucking jagoff youtuber longhairs said so. That shit is literally killing people.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
60,622
8,981
126
www.uovalor.com
The fact that you are contagious for so long before you even know you have it is also part of what makes this virus spread so fast.

Say you do start to feel sick and turns out you have it, think of all the people and objects you may have interacted with in those 14 days. All those people won't know they have it until 14 days either and they interacted with even more people and it just keeps going.

Washing your hands and stuff helps but it's also airborne so sitting within about 6 feet of someone that has it means you'll probably get it too.

There could be 10's of thousands of people right now who have it and they feel ok for now.
 

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