No, you’re not entitled to your opinion

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,541
920
126
http://theconversation.com/no-youre-not-entitled-to-your-opinion-9978

Every year, I try to do at least two things with my students at least once. First, I make a point of addressing them as “philosophers” – a bit cheesy, but hopefully it encourages active learning.

Secondly, I say something like this: “I’m sure you’ve heard the expression ‘everyone is entitled to their opinion.’ Perhaps you’ve even said it yourself, maybe to head off an argument or bring one to a close. Well, as soon as you walk into this room, it’s no longer true. You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to what you can argue for.”

A bit harsh? Perhaps, but philosophy teachers owe it to our students to teach them how to construct and defend an argument – and to recognize when a belief has become indefensible.

The problem with “I’m entitled to my opinion” is that, all too often, it’s used to shelter beliefs that should have been abandoned. It becomes shorthand for “I can say or think whatever I like” – and by extension, continuing to argue is somehow disrespectful. And this attitude feeds, I suggest, into the false equivalence between experts and non-experts that is an increasingly pernicious feature of our public discourse.

Firstly, what’s an opinion?

Plato distinguished between opinion or common belief (doxa) and certain knowledge, and that’s still a workable distinction today: unlike “1+1=2” or “there are no square circles,” an opinion has a degree of subjectivity and uncertainty to it. But “opinion” ranges from tastes or preferences, through views about questions that concern most people such as prudence or politics, to views grounded in technical expertise, such as legal or scientific opinions.

You can’t really argue about the first kind of opinion. I’d be silly to insist that you’re wrong to think strawberry ice cream is better than chocolate. The problem is that sometimes we implicitly seem to take opinions of the second and even the third sort to be unarguable in the way questions of taste are. Perhaps that’s one reason (no doubt there are others) why enthusiastic amateurs think they’re entitled to disagree with climate scientists and immunologists and have their views “respected.”

Meryl Dorey is the leader of the Australian Vaccination Network, which despite the name is vehemently anti-vaccine. Ms. Dorey has no medical qualifications, but argues that if Bob Brown is allowed to comment on nuclear power despite not being a scientist, she should be allowed to comment on vaccines. But no-one assumes Dr. Brown is an authority on the physics of nuclear fission; his job is to comment on the policy responses to the science, not the science itself.

So what does it mean to be “entitled” to an opinion?

If “Everyone’s entitled to their opinion” just means no-one has the right to stop people thinking and saying whatever they want, then the statement is true, but fairly trivial. No one can stop you saying that vaccines cause autism, no matter how many times that claim has been disproven.

But if ‘entitled to an opinion’ means ‘entitled to have your views treated as serious candidates for the truth’ then it’s pretty clearly false. And this too is a distinction that tends to get blurred.

On Monday, the ABC’s Mediawatch program took WIN-TV Wollongong to task for running a story on a measles outbreak which included comment from – you guessed it – Meryl Dorey. In a response to a viewer complaint, WIN said that the story was “accurate, fair and balanced and presented the views of the medical practitioners and of the choice groups.” But this implies an equal right to be heard on a matter in which only one of the two parties has the relevant expertise. Again, if this was about policy responses to science, this would be reasonable. But the so-called “debate” here is about the science itself, and the “choice groups” simply don’t have a claim on air time if that’s where the disagreement is supposed to lie.

Mediawatch host Jonathan Holmes was considerably more blunt: “there’s evidence, and there’s bulldust,” and it’s not part of a reporter’s job to give bulldust equal time with serious expertise.

The response from anti-vaccination voices was predictable. On the Mediawatch site, Ms. Dorey accused the ABC of “openly calling for censorship of a scientific debate.” This response confuses not having your views taken seriously with not being allowed to hold or express those views at all – or to borrow a phrase from Andrew Brown, it “confuses losing an argument with losing the right to argue.” Again, two senses of “entitlement” to an opinion are being conflated here.

So next time you hear someone declare they’re entitled to their opinion, ask them why they think that. Chances are, if nothing else, you’ll end up having a more enjoyable conversation that way.
I thought this was an interesting point of view and well worth sharing here.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,752
6,502
126
The opinion that one is entitled to ones opinion in all cases, and the opinion that in certain areas opinions are not equal are opinions that can be distinguished only by logical minds, the greatest proportion of those having such capacity liberal.

I believe that science has explained who some are logical and some defective in their thinking here, and the answer is that we have unconscious motivations, fears of facts we have been programmed to experience as painful and for which we have developed egotism to keep us from experiencing.

I would suspect that the more philosophy a person at a young age can be exposed to the better off that child will be, the more likely he or she may recognize the indefensible, but for the minds that are already damaged and defective in reasoning capacity, logic and rational explanation seem to be totally useless. Such people are literally insane and potentially dangerous. The deeper we drift into their madness the more ruthless will be the cure, I fear.

We do not allow people to sell poisonous food, why do we allow the sale of poisonous ideas? Can ideas kill? Don't vaccinate your kids and see. What the folk on the right have done is tell themselves to be proud of their mental illness. That's not a good thing for the rest of us. Do we really want to be pushed so far that we have to show them it's not? I think that discussion is going to have to be had. The temperature is rising towards 457.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Until we start requiring voters to give a supported argument for their choices then this is all moot. Otherwise the person with the "opinion they aren't entitled" to matters just as much as anyone else.
 

Sulaco

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2003
3,825
45
91
You are entitled to your own opinion.

You're not entitled to your own set of facts.

If the "evidence" you cling to to support your opinion is baseless and withers in the face of real facts and evidence, then no, you deserve no consideration or attention.

That doesn't prevent you from holding invalid opinions. But don't expect to be treated as equals with those whose opinions can be substantiated.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,541
920
126
You are entitled to your own opinion.

You're not entitled to your own set of facts.

If the "evidence" you cling to to support your opinion is baseless and withers in the face of real facts and evidence, then no, you deserve no consideration or attention.

That doesn't prevent you from holding invalid opinions. But don't expect to be treated as equals with those whose opinions can be substantiated.

:thumbsup:
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,112
1,585
126
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to what you can argue for.

and to recognize when a belief has become indefensible.
If everyone could teach kids this way we'd no longer conservatives since not a single one of their backwards ass beliefs are defensible.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
If everyone could teach kids this way we'd no longer conservatives since not a single one of their backwards ass beliefs are defensible.

Do you have evidence for this? If not its an unfounded claim.

Idiots are on both sides. Conservatives seem to be more proud of their beliefs, where as the left tries to pretend their views are backed by compassion.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
You are entitled to your own opinion.

You're not entitled to your own set of facts.

If the "evidence" you cling to to support your opinion is baseless and withers in the face of real facts and evidence, then no, you deserve no consideration or attention.

That doesn't prevent you from holding invalid opinions. But don't expect to be treated as equals with those whose opinions can be substantiated.

Most evidence is only used in a support of a policy position anyway which are completely based on opinions. Citing a fact regardless of how true or well supported doesn't entitle you to the political action you prefer. I could stipulate that "manmade global warming is true" or any other 'fact' you want, and still have an equal right to support whatever policy choices I want including saying "GTFO with carbon taxes" or whatever. That's true even if you support that policy based on your cited facts.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,112
1,585
126
Do you have evidence for this? If not its an unfounded claim.

Idiots are on both sides. Conservatives seem to be more proud of their beliefs, where as the left tries to pretend their views are backed by compassion.

The left is willing to evolve beliefs when they cannot be defended. The right doubles down on them. Nobody's perfect, but the right is the exact opposite of.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,752
6,502
126
Do you have evidence for this? If not its an unfounded claim.

Idiots are on both sides. Conservatives seem to be more proud of their beliefs, where as the left tries to pretend their views are backed by compassion.

Pure unsubstantiated opinion.

Science had proven that conservatives are more irrational than liberals.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,752
6,502
126
The left is willing to evolve beliefs when they cannot be defended. The right doubles down on them. Nobody's perfect, but the right is the exact opposite of.

No evidence that I have seen makes such a black and white case. There are areas where liberals may have more irrational fears.

Perhaps we can say that knowledge is power, but a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, and ignorance is down right dangerous. That would tell us that because liberals may have some real knowledge and conservatives seldom do, that some liberals who know some of what there is to know, may also be a source of trouble. Liberal mothers, for example, may struggle more than most with the fear of vaccines because they fear for their kids as mothers are wont to do.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
The left is willing to evolve beliefs when they cannot be defended. The right doubles down on them. Nobody's perfect, but the right is the exact opposite of.

Really?

How then does the left defend socialism? Or tariffs? Or price controls?

Ill grant you that I can think of fewer dumb stances for the left then right, which is why I lean more left, but lets not pretend that its only one side that has dumb ideas.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,698
31,609
136
Really?

How then does the left defend socialism? Or tariffs? Or price controls?

Ill grant you that I can think of fewer dumb stances for the left then right, which is why I lean more left, but lets not pretend that its only one side that has dumb ideas.

What do you mean by socialism? Are roads and fire departments indefensible?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Most evidence is only used in a support of a policy position anyway which are completely based on opinions. Citing a fact regardless of how true or well supported doesn't entitle you to the political action you prefer. I could stipulate that "manmade global warming is true" or any other 'fact' you want, and still have an equal right to support whatever policy choices I want including saying "GTFO with carbon taxes" or whatever. That's true even if you support that policy based on your cited facts.

That doesn't even come close to explaining right wing doublespeak on a variety of issues like Voter ID.

When we make it more difficult to vote, certain things obviously occur.

Fewer people will actually do so.

Some will be disenfranchised at least for the current election.

Illegal voting by legions of imaginary fraudsters will be prevented, obviously more important than the other consequences.

See how that works?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
The left is willing to evolve beliefs when they cannot be defended. The right doubles down on them. Nobody's perfect, but the right is the exact opposite of.

No evidence that I have seen makes such a black and white case. There are areas where liberals may have more irrational fears.

Perhaps we can say that knowledge is power, but a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, and ignorance is down right dangerous. That would tell us that because liberals may have some real knowledge and conservatives seldom do, that some liberals who know some of what there is to know, may also be a source of trouble. Liberal mothers, for example, may struggle more than most with the fear of vaccines because they fear for their kids as mothers are wont to do.

I think you're right in a way, Moonbeam. OTOH, Liberals are committed to the idea that the gathering of facts & information should precede the establishment of belief & formulation of strong opinion, one way or the other.

Righties form their belief & opinion first, usual on the basis of emotional appeal, then thrash around for facts to support it. When they come up empty, they compartmentalize & just keep on believing.

Colbert described it as truthiness, others as simulated rationality-

http://web.archive.org/web/20010726030451/http://www.indymedia.org/print.php3?article_id=3159

Much of what Righties believe has been astroturfed right past their intellectual defenses through emotionally appealing propaganda.
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,734
4,269
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To bad all of your guys' opinions are wrong. That my opinion backed by facts from reading this forum for the last 10 years or so :p

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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,752
6,502
126
I think you're right in a way, Moonbeam. OTOH, Liberals are committed to the idea that the gathering of facts & information should precede the establishment of belief & formulation of strong opinion, one way or the other.

Righties form their belief & opinion first, usual on the basis of emotional appeal, then thrash around for facts to support it. When they come up empty, they compartmentalize & just keep on believing.

Colbert described it as truthiness, others as simulated rationality-

http://web.archive.org/web/20010726030451/http://www.indymedia.org/print.php3?article_id=3159

Much of what Righties believe has been astroturfed right past their intellectual defenses through emotionally appealing propaganda.

My only point was that it's not a black and white situation, Liberals are not all 100% rational and conservatives 100% nuts. It is relative and also varies by issue. The real difference, in my opinion, is that you can usually reach an irrational liberal with reason. You usually can't with a conservative. They have entirely different reasons for their irrationality. Liberals don't usually see changing their mind for rational reasons as a sigh of abandonment of principle. They see it as intelligence, which it is in a way.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
The opinion that one is entitled to ones opinion in all cases, and the opinion that in certain areas opinions are not equal are opinions that can be distinguished only by logical minds, the greatest proportion of those having such capacity liberal.

I believe that science has explained who some are logical and some defective in their thinking here, and the answer is that we have unconscious motivations, fears of facts we have been programmed to experience as painful and for which we have developed egotism to keep us from experiencing.

I would suspect that the more philosophy a person at a young age can be exposed to the better off that child will be, the more likely he or she may recognize the indefensible, but for the minds that are already damaged and defective in reasoning capacity, logic and rational explanation seem to be totally useless. Such people are literally insane and potentially dangerous. The deeper we drift into their madness the more ruthless will be the cure, I fear.

We do not allow people to sell poisonous food, why do we allow the sale of poisonous ideas? Can ideas kill? Don't vaccinate your kids and see. What the folk on the right have done is tell themselves to be proud of their mental illness. That's not a good thing for the rest of us. Do we really want to be pushed so far that we have to show them it's not? I think that discussion is going to have to be had. The temperature is rising towards 457.
Certainly science has explained who <sic> some are logical and some defective in their thinking. Luckily that science was defeated by the United States, the Soviet Republic, and United Kingdom, and the Free French. Unfortunately under Western liberal thought these poisonous ideas must be freely tolerated, so they are regularly recycled by those with a burning need to believe themselves superior though sadly no qualifying ability to be so. Thus the Final Solution is continuously reproposed by those so limited as to imagine themselves as original.
 

Newell Steamer

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2014
6,894
8
0
Opinions are sometimes the "base" yell, similar to when playing freeze tag - yet, some people aren't even touching the base, or are touching something that isn't base or there isn't even really a base.

You are entitled to your opinions - but, don't expect to be agreed with or allowed to "state" you opinion with out objections and even retribution, when using false information.

Too many people are just looking to cause havoc with incorrect information and then claim: "well, it's my opinion." That is not a valid way out of knowingly using false information.

Furthermore, integrity is attacked when proven wrong as well - which is alarming frankly.

So, yeah, wave around incorrect information, but don't expect to be accepted and listened to when proven wrong, followed by your hissy fit of crying oppression and persecution.