I am really looking forward to Zul'gurub and the Arathi Basin...
Oh, well. Another week we'll have to wait.
Oh, well. Another week we'll have to wait.
No WoW patch today...
- Thread starter Noema
- Start date
damn......on a positive note, our guild finally killed Lucifron - really not to tought once you figure out where everyone should be standing, and you have people getting rid of the magic curses...
I triggered an imp rush once by mistake...wasn't pretty...
I triggered an imp rush once by mistake...wasn't pretty...
And Mag is only easier. Once you defeat Luci it usually gets a bit easier and easier for each guild to move through every boss until you get to Rag, thats normally when it stalls again. My guild can easily farm through all of the bosses up until Rag. We are still trying to get that fight down.
Holy cow, that reminds me I'd better check on my account. I haven't logged on since late June. I wonder what happened to my guild?.....
Yeah we went from Garr to Golemagg in a single night, and we had never fought any of the bosses except Garr before. Baron Geddon is the most fun fight ever btw
**MADE BY PACIFIST GUILD**
Facts:
Friendly-Domo will reset after standing in Ragnaros' Lair for a while. Never seen him despawn myself, but it's at least 30 minutes, probably longer. You can not, for example, kill Domo on Friday and then spawn Rag on Saturday without killing Domo again.
Ragnaros despawns 2 hours after you talk to Domo and spawn him. He will not despawn while in combat; he will wait until you wipe if the 2 hour mark comes mid battle.
He has a rather small agro radius but puts everyone in the zone into combat when agroed. His Magma Blasts (discussed below) hit everyone in the zone.
Preparation:
Equipment-wise, FR is very important overall but less important for certain people. All melee should have 150 unbuffed FR, both MTs should have over 300 buffed FR, everyone else (ranged dps and healers) should be aiming for 80+ unbuffed, but don't gimp your mana pool.
Equipment is a hot discussion on the raid/dungeons forums, everyone seems to have their own opinion. I asked my guild what they used for equipment vs. Rag and here is what they have to say.
All of this potion stuff below becomes optional once your entire raid is extremely familiar with the encounter, plays the top of their game, and has good equipment/FR. If your raid is just starting Rag or having problems, definitely invest in all of these things, they make the fight much easier.
Get a big stockpile of this stuff: Greater Fire Protection Potion, Elixir of the Mongoose, Greater Arcane Elixir, Elemental Sharpening Stones, and Winterfall Firewater.
Every person present should have what they need. Don't skimp on the potions. All melee should get at least 3 Fire Prot. potions because they are a million times better than healing pots for this. If you're preparing correctly, a couple hundred gold worth of potions should be used in every serious attempt. I don't suggest using any potions or anything special until you are getting him under 40% pre-sons and 25% pre-wipe because it is quite expensive to do all out runs.
Another great and likely-to-be-nerfed crutch is heading to LBRS and MCing a Scarshield Spellbinder (you'll find one quickly in the first few pulls of LBRS) who can buff you with +83 FR. Take into consideration Rag is only up for 2 hours if you decide to go down this shameful path.
0:00 - 2:59 - Ragnaros
Special Attacks:
Wrath of Ragnaros ("Taste the Flames of Sulfuron!")
PROBLEM
25 second cool down melee range fire based attack that attempts to knock multiple in-range targets back.
Agro doesn't exactly reset, but the MT's threat is definitely reduced.
SOLUTION
Every 23 seconds all melee players get out of melee range except for the MT. Nexous' mod monitors this.
Give the MT a few seconds of building threat before re attacking.
Sometimes the MT is knocked back. This is discussed below in The Plan.
NOTES
Wrath of Ragnaros extends just slightly past melee range. When your melee players are backing out, they need to get as far away as possible. In the west and north sides of Rag, you have to back out to the lava. The east side has more room to get out of melee range.
Random Explosions ("By fire be purged!")
PROBLEM
Every 20-30 seconds he will turn and shoot a fireball type thing at a single random target who takes no damage, but damages and knocks back players near him.
SOLUTION
Everyone needs to spread out (as discussed in positioning below) to reduce the number of people knocked back.
Proper positioning with backs against available walls will prevent people from being knocked back into the lava.
NOTES
It's important to understand that there are 2 types of knockbacks. Make sure you know the difference between them. The "random explosions" seem to have no official name according to combat logs and wowrunes, so I'll be calling them "random explosions" throughout this writeup.
Elemental Fire
PROBLEM
Whoever has Rag's agro will get hit with elemental fire that does a few thousand damage over time.
SOLUTION
Heal it and live with it, there's not much you can do. We usually use this debuff as an idiot beacon; if you have it you pulled agro and are fired.
Lava Splash
PROBLEM
Every 10-30 seconds the lava will get quite disagreeable and hit everyone near it.
SOLUTION
Decent FR reduces the damage quite a bit; 100FR will take around 400dmg, 200FR will take around 200. Only melee players should be hit by this, and they should have good healing. Resistable too, overall not a big deal.
Magma Blast ***IMPORTANT***
PROBLEM
He will hit random targets everywhere in the zone for 6000+dmg if no one is in melee range.
SOLUTION
Always have someone in melee range.
Melt Weapon
PROBLEM
Every time a melee player hits Ragnaros, their weapon is damaged.
SOLUTION
REPAIR BOT! Smile
Group Setup:
Assume I say Shaman everywhere I say Paladin if you are Horde. But no Horde will ever read this guide since 4 Shaman chain casting frost shock can drop Rag no problem, right.
Melee groups and ranged groups is the general idea. MTs, MT healers, and melee groups should get priority on Paladins because they will need FR aura more than ranged. Always use FR aura/totems.
Groups 1 and 2 are MT groups and should consist of: MT1/MT2/Paladin/Druid/Priest and Paladin/Priest/Rangedx3. Healing on MT should be 2 Priests, 2 Paladins, and 1 Druid. The 3 random ranged filling up group 2 need special attention from the designated ranged healers since their in group healers will be entirely focused on the MTs.
Then around 3 groups of melee setup like so: Warrior/Rogue/Rogue/Paladin/Priest for aura and battle shout. Give melee groups Priests because they will take AE damage from Lava Splashes and Prayer of Healing comes in very handy.
And the last 3 groups or so are Mages and Hunters, likely with no Paladin and a Druid healing them. They definitely take damage from random explosions that needs to be healed, but they shouldn't be close enough to the lava to take Lava Splash damage.
You will have a warrior MA for the sons. Set that up ahead of time and make sure he has good healers.
Raid List Example
Positioning:
This is going to look really confusing at first but it's quite simple.
R - Ranged DPS and their healers
M-H - Melee Healers. Some melee healers will have to jump across the lava to get in range.
M-1 - Where melee players start before the MT agros.
M-2 - Where melee players run to the second the MT agros. Melee (or anyone for that matter) should not get within 15 yards of MT1 or MT2 or they might knock them back with a random explosion.
MT1 - Main Tank #1. The position of MT1 has to be exact so that he doesn't get thrown into the lava when he gets knocked back. Trust the red blob.
MT2 - Main Tank #2. At least 15 yards to the right of MT1 so that they don't knock each other back with random explosions.
P - Paladin giving FR aura to main tanks. Stay as far away as possible, you don't want to knock them back on accident.
MT-H - Main Tank Healers. Keep your back against that wall and tell anyone near you that's not healing the MT to go away. Spread out a bit along that wall.
Ranged should be spread out in that huge are marked green, but still grouped enough so that their healer has range.
Melee is going to start at M-1 and then jump across the lava (marked by white arrow) the second the MT agros Rag. Melee should then be spread all around Rag but at least 15 yards away from MT1 and MT2 at all times. Don't cluster up on top of each other. Spread out all the way down the hook.
Melee healers can try to stand across the lava (marked M-H), but they will likely have to jump across (or get knocked across) to stay in range of their group. Plus, Prayer is going to work a lot better if they jump across.
The MT positioning is very important. They should never be within 15 yards of each other. One of the two should always be within melee range of Rag. Eventually MT1 is going to be knocked back and MT2 will have to immediately run in and get agro. After MT2 has agro, he moves to MT1's position and MT1 moves to where MT2 was. They rotate.
The MT's healers have it pretty easy. Put your back against that wall and spam heals nonstop on the tank. They can and will take 4000+ dmg instantly. The MT needs constant spamming of flash heals with druids and paladins padding or they are going to die.
You are going to be knocked out of position by a random explosion at least once. Just immediately run back to where you were. You are often thrown into the lava so make sure you are capable of getting out. Go practice.
Before you even spawn Rag get into the position described. Get everyone exactly where they should be while fighting. Look for people that could be spread out more, people who aren't in range of their healer or aura/totem, and other easily corrected mistakes. Practice the position and be 100% sure your entire raid knows exactly where they need to be.
When practicing, make your melee players jump from M-1 into M-2. If you jump in the lava correctly, you won't take any lava damage what so ever.
This entire 3 minutes is all about positioning. Know it, practice it, and execute it correctly.
Plan:
Buff. Buff like you've never buffed before. Every single melee should have bok/might/salv/light. Every single caster should have bok/salv/bow. Everyone should have MoTW/AI/PW:F. A fully, completely, totally buffed raid is a happy raid. We like to buff up in the west (like in the positioning screen shot above). Once you get blessings, move into position.
If you're going all out, remember to drink your FR potions 2 minutes before engaging since they are on the global potion timer cool down.
Rag is up. MT1, MT2, and their healers are all hugging the south wall. All the melee players are in M-1. All the ranged are spread out in the west near their healers.
0:00 - MT1 runs into position and gets agro. Start Nexous' Magic Mod the second Rag turns around to attack.
0:01 - MT2 and all the melee players run/jump into position and start attacking. They are nicely spread out, in range of their healers, and doing excellent DPS without pulling agro from the MT, all within a few seconds.
0:23: The first Wrath of Ragnaros is about to happen. Everyone except MT1 moves out of melee range. Ranged keeps attacking.
0:25: Wrath has hit MT1.
One of two things has now happened. Either MT1 did not resist wrath and has been knocked back, or he did resist it and is still happily tanking away.
If MT1 has been knocked back, here's what needs to happen: MT2 (who has backed off like all the other melee) needs to immediately run in, get agro, and move to MT1's position. He will spend a moment building threat and call when melee can resume attacking. He should be #2 on the hate list because he was attacking for that first 23 seconds like everyone else.
Once MT2 calls the attack, all melee resume attacking. Ranged never really need to back off, but they should not be doing any big damage for that 5-10 seconds around a wrath. Ranged really doesn't want to pull agro.
While MT2 is getting into his new position, the knocked back MT1 should run back and go to MT2's old position. They just rotate after a knock back.
Fortunately, most of the time a MT with 350+ FR will resist the knock back.
If the MT does not get knocked back, melee can resume attacking in about 2 seconds. Wrath definitely reduces everyone's threat on Rag's hate list, but it does not completely wipe. Just give the MT a couple seconds before resuming good DPS after a resisted wrath.
That's all there is to it folks. Cycle through this pattern over and over until 2:50 into the fight.
Wrath->check for knock back->move MT2 in if needed->wait a few seconds for MT to call the attack->attack good DPS for around 20 seconds->move out of melee range->repeat!
Wrath is on a 25 second cool down but he will not use it exactly every 25 seconds. More like every 25-30 seconds. Wrath will hit several targets within melee range. You only want 1 person in melee range (your current MT) when wrath happens.
Your MTs have to be on the ball, ready to transfer the job after one of them gets knocked back. If the MT1 is knocked back and MT2 doesn't get into melee range immediately, Rag is going to start Magma Blast oneshotting random people since no one is in melee range.
MT healers need to be ready to switch targets very quickly. The guy does a ton of damage and if one of your MTs dies, you're wiping.
Your melee players have to be ready to move. Don't wait that 2 seconds for that 20 energy tick to do your last ability. Get the hell out of melee range the second the script tells you to. You have to stay alive.
Mind your DPS but do a lot of it as safely as you can. If you pull agro, you will die. Rag's target requires several healers constantly spamming heals to keep them alive. You will not live if you pull agro, period.
At 2:50 (10 seconds until Sons) ranged collapses into sons position. Hunters lay frost traps pretty much anywhere along the lava if you can. At 2:55, melee collapses. The MT and his healers do not collapse until Rag actually goes underground and the Sons spawn since someone has to be in melee range at all times.
Ramblings:
There should be very few deaths during this phase because nobody but the MTs have been eating wrath, and healers have been keeping HP topped off from AE fire damage. If more than 3 people are dying in the first 3 minutes, there are problems with positioning or healing (or simply a lack of FR).
There is an unfortunate amount of luck involved with this "phase" of Rag. There will be runs when the MT is getting knocked back all the damn time and your DPS sucks because you have too much downtime switching MTs. Or maybe your MT healers will eat like 5 random explosions in a row and waste all their mana healing things that aren't the MT. Or maybe a random explosion hits all your melee players at 2:58 as they are clustered up collapsing for the sons. Sometimes the lava splashes are just out of control and all your melee healers get cooked with the melee players dying shortly after to AE damage that adds up.
We've seen it all happen. Our typical runs will see the MT knocked back 1-2 times and not be a big deal. We'll lose a few precious seconds of DPS when we have to switch MTs, but if it's only a couple times, it's not bad.
A few people (usually melee) are going to get owned with some random and disgusting combo like: explosion->lava splash mid-air->land in lava->take a lavadmg tick->dead. It happens but it shouldn't be happening to more than 2-3 people, sometimes not at all.
Biggest problem will always be getting melee players on the ball and out of melee range the second they are told to get out. It's simple, if you get Wrath and you are not the MT, you have made a mistake and are going to die.
Typically he goes under at around 30% if we are going to kill him that run.
3:00 - Sons of Flame
Special Attacks:
Mana burn Aura - About a 10 yard radius evil mana burn. Solution: If you have mana, stay away from sons. Do not fear sons, they might run into people with mana.
Positioning:
At 2:50 ranged should start collapsing to the green spots.
At 2:55 melee should start collapsing to the red area. Jump across the lava if it's closer. Stay away from the MT while collapsing.
Black dots = Approximate son spawn location points. They all spawn around Rag and run south, right into the melee waiting at the red blob.
They should end up in a position like this:
R - Ranged/mana users, safely away from aura.
M - Anyone without mana, tanking and focus-fire killing sons, keeping them away from mana users.
X - Frost traps, if you can get them down, they help keep the sons together.
The positioning is pretty simple. The execution is hard.
When you're practicing "phase 1" positions, practice collapsing into sons positions. Have ranged collapse and melee go 5 seconds later. Watch for melee running too close to the MT when running south, they don't want a random explosion to hit them and knock back the MT. Have your hunters FD and lay traps. Make sure mana users are far away from the bulk of melee ready to tank.
The Plan:
Sons are 100% fire based damage. No melee damage what so ever.
Rag is going to re spawn in 1 minute 30 seconds or when all the sons are dead, whatever happens first.
You want your melee players, mostly the warriors, protecting people with mana. Ranged collapsed first so that the melee are closer to the sons when they spawn. They will spawn all around Rag in a circle and rush south where everyone should be.
One warrior is designated MA. We use a warrior because the sons hit pretty hard and assisting is absolutely essential. The MA must stay alive. He picks a target.
All other warriors pick random sons to tank.
Frost traps are laid so they are slowed. A mage runs in and novas to help keep them together. Warlocks should banish once. One banish. No more than 3 total things banished. They should choose sons that are in the back and not good candidates for killing first. The last thing you want is the MA's target to get banished. Banishing is dangerous. Don't ever fear, you'll probably fear them right into the casters and screw them over.
Logically all the sons are being tanked and killed in the middle while mana users are off to the sides. They will die fast. Just think of it as an 8 pull in baron strat with a nasty mana burn aura.
Everyone has to assist. These need to die very quickly if you want to survive. DPS focus fire, warriors keep them away from casters.
Sons are going to get a little out of control. If you have mana, move around, get away from that aura. You need that mana to kill Rag. If you are a warrior (and not the MA), make sure all the sons are accounted for and there isn't one pestering the casters.
Put Judgment of Wisdom up on a random son that isn't being killed. Announce it and tell your priests to assist. Priests should wand the judged mob to help regain mana.
Keep the tanks alive. Number one problem is tanks dropping too fast, then having a couple sons run around wild destroying casters. If your tanks are dying to sons, they are either pulling too many onto them at the start, or their FR sucks, or their healers suck. This is largely the job of paladins/shaman/druids, the priests need to regen to keep you alive when Rag re spawns. With decent FR the sons won't do all that much damage to the warriors, and no damage at all to melee because they have no mana, and no damage to mana users because they are out of range of the aura.
Take them down one at a time. Rag will re spawn when they are all dead (or when 1:30 is up but if sons aren't down within 1:30, you are probably going to wipe). We have seen him re spawn when we had sons left but all of the sons were banished or otherwise crowd controlled. It may be true he re spawns when they are all dead or otherwise incapacitated, but I can't confirm this. We usually have our MT grab 1 son and just tank it the entire time. That is the last son to die. It's usually the one that gets judgment of wisdom too.
When only 1 son is left the MTs and MT healers need to move back into their original position. Rag is going to re spawn and the MT better be in melee range with heals available.
Kill the last son and get ready to finish the job.
Ramblings:
Another 3-4 people can have died and you'll be okay. Remember you need to stretch yourself another 30%+ of his HP after these are dead. Don't drain yourself on the sons, but don't let people die. It's sad to have a great "phase 1" then get owned by sons and not have the DPS to take Rag down when he re spawns.
Sons really aren't that bad if your warriors are good and they get heals. Initial positioning is the most important part. You want the sons to run right into the melee, not right into the casters. Sons definitely take practice, but you'll start destroying them after everybody gets a feel for it and knows their job.
When the positioning gets all screwed up there are problems. The casters have a designated area, keep sons out of it at all costs. There needs to be safe places for mana users. Even 1 son can completely drain half your casters' mana and leave them dead or with very low HP. Get into the correct position from the start and hold it.
They become exponentially harder if you lose people during the first 3 minutes. You need 95% of your raid up to deal with the sons, or you're going to lose a lot of people and lack the DPS to finish off Rag.
*** POST-SONS ***
Positioning, special attacks, everything is the same as the first 3 minutes. Nothing has changed.
MTs are back into position before the last son is dead so that someone is in melee range when he re spawns. Healers drink mana potions and get to the heals. Innervates are probably cooled down if you burnt them early (you should!), get them on the MT's priests.
Last son dies and Rag re spawns. Same thing as the first part. Get into position, start attacking after giving the MT 3-4 seconds, back off 23 seconds after every wrath, and keep the DPS going. Drink FR potions if you can, your healers will be low on mana and love you for it.
There really isn't much more to say at this point. Keep people alive, maintain good positioning, MTs stay on the ball, keep the MTs alive, and get him under 20%. He doesn't have that much HP overall so it should really start dropping once the warriors can execute. Save your ragepot+recklessness until like 7%.
The last 1% is brutal. Get him down before 3 minutes are up.
There's a slight possibility you will stay alive but not kill him within 3 minutes of him re spawning. Prepare for a second wave of sons 3 minutes after he re spawns.
If he goes under at like 2% and a second wave of sons spawns to destroy your severely crippled raid group, fear, nova, banish, traps, stun, keep them busy for a minute thirty. Stay alive for 1 minute 30 seconds. Do not focus killing sons, you probably don't have the people or resources to handle them. Keep them from killing all of your ranged DPS for 1:30 and you just might get that last 1-2% off when he re spawns even with 8 sons running around. It's happened before.
You're probably going to wipe if you get a second wave of sons, but don't give up right away, especially if he goes under very low.
Thanks for taking the time to read it, if you have any questions please ask!
All ranged attacks should go nuts on dps, they cannot pull agro. We usually get him to 45% before he spawns the first sons. We get him to 1% or 0% before the 2nd sons.
The only problem with mag is it sounds like they just have one Lucifron kill so just one hunter skill to calm that bad dog down.
Tend to need 2 since there is a cooldown.
Originally posted by: Quixfire
I haven't even finished BRD with my level 60 warrior yet. Darn my causal play schedule.
I am worse off then you.
I quit WoW before BG or the new ogre instance came out and I am going to be restarting from scratch on a new server.
My lvl 60 warrior and mid 30 mage on the first server I played on are still there but I can't bring myself to delete them.
On a side note, Alliance sucks!!!
Yeah the problem we are having is downing the sons and not losing too many people. We havn't been doing full out pot runs yet since we've just been trying to work on that portion of the fight. Best we've gotten is only losing 7 people and downing all of the sons in a decent time.
I believe this weekend we are going to go all out. I imagine we will come very close to downing him, and maybe even doing it if we have a good group makeup.
Sons are relatively easy. every tank needs to offtank one. The main tank and main tank 2 should offtank like 4 of them. In CT raid only have 1 MT target and set that to your Main assist. Focus fire the main assist's target which would be the son of flame that is to go down.
Have the casters all stay put in between the little cove and everyone else at the perimeter.
(There is a spot on the map where there are two cliffs and a clearing in between this is where the casters stand.)
Originally posted by: Malladine
So warriors are fun right? I'll be starting one in 3 weeks!Originally posted by: Quixfire
I haven't even finished BRD with my level 60 warrior yet. Darn my causal play schedule.
Well they are one of the most needed classes but for pvp wise they sucked it up though I havn't played them since before the BG release and see they have got quite a lot of buffs since then.
Thinking of going mage since when I played I had a alt mage and had lots of fun with that.
Warriors got a lot of love lately, to the point that they are arguably the best class now.
They are absolutely necessary in Instances, great solo and excellent at PvP. Great Damage+great suvivavility.
They are absolutely necessary in Instances, great solo and excellent at PvP. Great Damage+great suvivavility.
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