No sense in pretending. Hamas will never recognize Israel.

[EagleKeeper]

If anyone wants to hear my opinion - as someone who's been living in Israel for the past 4 years.

1. The Israeli army does everything it possibly can to prevent innocent deaths. So much so that many soldiers are afraid to shoot because they might be put on trial. Israel has the most self critical army I have ever seen.

2. Israel has been in pursuit of peace ever since the beginning. However it's neighbors want none of it. Look back to every single war that broke out- who started it? 1948 war was started not by "Palestinians" (back then that term didn't exist) but by every single Arab country surrounding Israel.

Israel has made concession upon concession over the past decades in order to show the world that they want peace, yet they are accused of being Nazis and of genocide. Utterly ridiculous.

3. I never understood why the world insists that Israel is the bad guy but in my experience from living here, it's not the case at all, it's the blood thirsty Arab's that are the problem and the world that makes them out to be victims and the persecuted ones.

4. Ultimately Israel is a miracle all on it's own for not only surviving but breaking records in all science fields and innovations, while being surrounded by 300 million Arabs who hate them. I will never truly understand how that is possible.

In short- Israel is a friend of piece no matter what your bbc or cnn biased antisemitic (anti israel = anti sametic) news channels say, if you don't believe it come here yourself and you'll see arab men and women on the buses in jerusalem and getting treated at Israeli hospitals, while if a jew goes into an arab city he most likely won't come out alive.

But that is not what the Palestinian propaganda mouthpieces say.

Israel is considered to be wrong because they are there and what happened previously has no bearing on the current issues.

Yet is that is the case; then why are the Palestinian supporters continually bringing up the past as justification for cutting down Israel. Right of Return is from the past, not the present. Attacks on Israel are in the past, not the present.

It must be considered to be OK for the Palestinians to hold onto history as an excuse for their actions; but not for Israel.

 

[fskimospy]

Is this any worse than what the Palestinians profess to want and the Arabs tried to do?

I am stating that this is an option should the Palestinian state attack Israel.

And this was an option that Israel could have done when responding to attacks; but chose not to.
If such an option is needed; they shold do exactly what the Arabs did in '48. Alert the population that they are going to sweep through and advise those that want to leave to get out before it is to late.

Those that stay are either loyal to Israel or become exiled by Israel.

Ethnic cleaning as long as it is not wholesale murder seems to be acceptable for the UN.

Or is it because of the Jews doing it that it becomes bitter?

Who gives a shit what the arabs want to do? Ethnic cleansing is ethnic cleansing. I am unaware of an instance where the UN has endorsed forcible ethnic cleansing even without wholesale murder. Your 'solutions' are horrifying, immoral, impractical, and would likely lead to a larger conflict.

 

[fskimospy]

In short- Israel is a friend of piece no matter what your bbc or cnn biased antisemitic (anti israel = anti sametic) news channels say, if you don't believe it come here yourself and you'll see arab men and women on the buses in jerusalem and getting treated at Israeli hospitals, while if a jew goes into an arab city he most likely won't come out alive.

No it's not. Do you know what anti-semitic means?

And you think CNN is anti-Israel? You do realize that their primary political anchor is a former member of AIPAC, right?

 

[Atreus21]

Who gives a shit what the arabs want to do? Ethnic cleansing is ethnic cleansing. I am unaware of an instance where the UN has endorsed forcible ethnic cleansing even without wholesale murder. Your 'solutions' are horrifying, immoral, impractical, and would likely lead to a larger conflict.

You don't see the UN condemning violence against Israel with the same vigor as they do against Palestine.

 

[fskimospy]

You don't see the UN condemning violence against Israel with the same vigor as they do against Palestine.

If you look at the number of Israelis killed over the last 40 years as compared to the number of Palestinians, maybe this would make more sense.

I'm also unsure of why the presence or absence of evenhanded UN condemnation would justify Israeli ethnic cleansing.

 

[Lemon law]

You don't see the UN condemning violence against Israel with the same vigor as they do against Palestine.

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Because Israel as a state is supposed to be more responsible than occupied ethnic groups in disputed territories. Who have a right, as occupied and imprisoned people's, to oppose
an unjust occupation of their homes.

The reason Israel is in deep doo doo with the international community is that Israel keeps settling on territory they can never own. By now Israeli excuses have worn transparently thin.

All right already, can anyone say 44 years of a military occupation is not long enough.

And anyone who believes Israeli propaganda that the IDF behaves responsibly, does not understand that collective punishment is defined as a war crime. As the IDF indiscriminately bombed civilians in Lebanon. Israelis thought it was designed to discredit Hezbollah and instead tripled the popularity of Hezbollah inside Lebanon. And international war crimes from operation cast lead still hangs over the Israeli nation.

 

[Harabec]

Sometimes I read LL's posts and I wonder if this is P&N or the Sci-Fi forum.

 

[Lemon law]

Sometimes I read LL's posts and I wonder if this is P&N or the Sci-Fi forum.

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Just keep telling yourself that Harabec, then you can bitch to the sci-fi forum when Palestine will likely be recognized as a State by the end of 2011.

I am just trying to explain why it will likely happen, because you get no enlightenment in the Sci-fi forum.

Your problem Harabec, is that you think quite differently from almost everyone in the world.

But wait a few more days, Obama is expected to speak to the nation and lay out the new US plans regarding a Palestinian State. But IMHO, it will lay out exactly just how far Israel can go before the USA refuses to save Israeli bacon with any UN vetoes. Since Israel lost the last such vote 15 to one, yes the whole Israeli ball game depends on the USA being the only one again.