No sense in pretending. Hamas will never recognize Israel.

[Hayabusa Rider]

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...r-recognize-israel-top-official-says-1.361072

Hamas accepts 1967 borders, but will never recognize Israel, top official says

Speaking to Palestinian news agency Ma'an, Mahmoud Zahar says recognition of Israel would deprive future Palestinian generations of the possibility to 'liberate' their lands.

By Haaretz Service Tags: Israel news Gaza Hamas Middle East peace

Hamas would be willing to accept a Palestinian state within 1967 borders, a leader of the militant group, Mahmoud Zahar, told the Palestinian news agency Ma'an on Wednesday, adding, however, that Hamas would never recognize Israel since such a move would counter the group's aim to "liberate" all of Palestine.
Zahar's comments come amid Palestinian efforts to form a unity government that would include former rivals Fatah and Hamas, following a reconciliation agreement the two factions signed last week in Cairo.

Mahmoud Zahar.
Photo by: AP Speaking to Ma'an on Wednesday, Zahar, hinting at the possible political line of a future Palestinian unity cabinet, said that recognizing Israel would "preclude the right of the next generations to liberate the lands," wondering: "What will be the fate of the five million Palestinians in the diaspora?"
The Gaza strongman went on to tell Ma'an that Hamas would be willing to recognize a Palestinian state "on any part of Palestine," as opposed to the group's proclaimed aim to form a state from "from the [Jordan] river to the [Mediterranean] sea."
Zahar also referred to the future of Hamas' military truce with Israel, confirming that the movement would continue to honor the cessation of fighting, following a joint decision made with its new Fatah partners. The Hamas leader, however, reiterated that the truce was "part of the resistance not its rejection," adding that a "truce is not peace."
A top Palestinian official said on Tuesday that a new unity government between recently reconciled Hamas and Fatah will be formed in 10 days.
In an interview with Ma'an news agency, Fatah leader Nabil Shaath said that although the prime minister of a future interim unity government has yet to be announced, current PA Prime Minister Salam Fayyad is still in the running for the position.
Fayyad has taken unprecedented steps in recent months toward Palestinian statehood, recently presenting proposal in Brussels delineating a three-year aid plan that would allow for the establishment of a Palestinian state in the foreseeable future.
Palestinian leaders plan to ask the United Nations General Assembly in September to recognize a Palestinian state in all the lands Israel occupied in 1967.
Fayyad has made it clear that in the event that Israel and the Palestinians do not reach a negotiated settlement, a Palestinian state will be declared unilaterally.

They insist on being recognized but will not do the reverse. Basically they reserve the right to eliminate Israel at some point.

No doubt the "but ISRAEL" comments will start, however there can be no peace just a truce until such a time that Hamas believes it can carry out the "liberation" which means elimination. Most of us knew that, but not it's official.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

israel and palestine, what a colossal waste of time and resources.

 

[Veliko]

Ah, good old Palestine and Israel. The best place on earth to demonstrate how fuckwits on one side will conspire against fuckwits on the other side to needlessly make life harder for each other.

 

[Genx87]

Clearly this is Israel's fault Hamas wont recognize them.

 

[Macamus Prime]

EDIT:

In response, I would expect Israel to fire into a crowd of peaceful protestors and children,.. like they have done in the past:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/may/20/israel1

"Israeli forces fired tank shells into a peaceful Palestinian protest during the ongoing assault on Rafah refugee camp yesterday, killing at least 10 people - mostly children - and critically wounding many others."

 

[Atreus21]

EDIT:

In response, I would expect Israel to fire into a crowd of peaceful protestors and children,.. like they have done in the past:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/may/20/israel1

"Israeli forces fired tank shells into a peaceful Palestinian protest during the ongoing assault on Rafah refugee camp yesterday, killing at least 10 people - mostly children - and critically wounding many others."

Thursday 20 May 2004 02.44 BST

Had to dig a little, huh?

 

[Lemon law]

The myth in this thread is to assume Zahar speaks for all of Hamas. Some within Hamas opposed the Fatah Hamas reunification, and Zahar was on the losing side.

The reunification deal was signed last week, and now work is proceeding at a fast pace as the new joint Fatah Hamas government is expected to name all its governing officials within 10 days.

And when that list comes out and Zahar is not among them, we will know exactly how influential Zahar is now.

The other thing to point out, if there is to be a Palestinians state, the Pals with have to recognize Israel and Israel will have to recognize the Pals.

Of course we can also ask, how much longer will Israel let Bozo Netanyuhu and Lieberman speak for Israel? Already major parties in Israel are calling for new elections
because they think the Netanyuhu hard lines is dragging Israel into disrepute and international pariah State.

But its still too early to tell, the new joint Fatah Hamas government will be judged by its action.

And at the same time, so will Israel.

As we go into the final run up to 9/2011.

 

[fskimospy]

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...r-recognize-israel-top-official-says-1.361072



They insist on being recognized but will not do the reverse. Basically they reserve the right to eliminate Israel at some point.

No doubt the "but ISRAEL" comments will start, however there can be no peace just a truce until such a time that Hamas believes it can carry out the "liberation" which means elimination. Most of us knew that, but not it's official.

Who cares if they recognize them or not? Who cares if they reserve the right to attempt to eliminate them in the future? I mean most nations on earth for most of human history have operated under the implicit assumption that their neighbors might try to kill them at some point in the not too distant future.

I for one will never understand this obsession with meaningless recognition or some sort of bland, insipid declaration of a 'right to exist' that isn't even worth the paper its printed on. (and which no other country demands of its neighbors, even neighbors that have successfully caused them to cease to exist in the past) If a Palestinian state is going to solve the problems they have over there it isn't going to be because they succeeded in making Hamas stop saying mean things, it will be because of the real ways in which that affects people's lives.

 

[Macamus Prime]

Thursday 20 May 2004 02.44 BST

Had to dig a little, huh?

Once a child killer, always a child killer.

I expect Israel to murder more. No, wait - sorry. I expect more Palestinians to die, because they brought it upon themselves to get missles lobbed at them by Israel.

There, that makes more sense. And "fitting" for reality.

 

[Schadenfroh]

1. Declare statehood with Hamas in charge
2. Hamas supporters launch Katyusha rockets and mortar attacks against Israeli civilians
3. Formally declare war (other Arab nations can join in as well)
4. Settle it

Thursday 20 May 2004 02.44 BST

Had to dig a little, huh?

I remember an Anti-Israeli guy that used to post here, he would start new threads about things that the Israelis may or may not have done from back in the late 1940s, that were already well known, when there was a lull.

 

[fskimospy]

1. Declare statehood with Hamas in charge
2. Hamas supporters launch Katyusha rockets and mortar attacks against Israeli civilians
3. Formally declare war (other Arab nations can join in as well)
4. Settle it


I remember an Anti-Israeli that used to post here, he would start new threads about things that the Israelis may or may not have done from back in the late 1940s that were already well known when there was a lull.

Ooh, then after all that war and death we will have millions of Palestinians living on land occupied by Israel. I'm sure there will be no problems then!

 

[Atreus21]

Once a child killer, always a child killer.

I expect Israel to murder more. No, wait - sorry. I expect more Palestinians to die, because they brought it upon themselves to get missles lobbed at them by Israel.

There, that makes more sense. And "fitting" for reality.

Then at the very, VERY least, you should hold the Palestinians in the same disdain as you do Israel, because children have been used as suicide bombers.

But somehow I doubt you do.

I mean, Jesus Christ, have you seen this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomorrow's_Pioneers

 

[MotF Bane]

Let's just turn the whole damn region into glass. Then we'll go get the oil in peace.

:awe:

 

[Lemon law]

Lest we forget the lesson of South Africa, that ended up having to bow to international pressure to extend voting rights to its black majority.

And instead of the predicted bloodbaths of revenge, South Africa is peaceful and thriving without any of the predicted revenge bloodbaths.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Lest we forget the lesson of South Africa, that ended up having to bow to international pressure to extend voting rights to its black majority.

And instead of the predicted bloodbaths of revenge, South Africa is peaceful and thriving without any of the predicted revenge bloodbaths.

Those Palestinians that live within Israel, have voting rights.

Your analogy w/ S. Africa has been previous shot down.

 

[Macamus Prime]

Then at the very, VERY least, you should hold the Palestinians in the same disdain as you do Israel, because children have been used as suicide bombers.

But somehow I doubt you do.

I mean, Jesus Christ, have you seen this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomorrow's_Pioneers

I haven't said so in this thread (until now), but I have in others; both sides care rot in the hell they have created for themselves.

Both sides have spilled innocent blood and choose to place the fault of this act on the other side.

They will never stop. However, one rabid dog has sharper teeth than the other. So, the weakest one will eventually die. Eitherway, they are both rabid animals.

 

[Karl Agathon]

Clearly this is Israel's fault Hamas wont recognize them.

Well of course, its always the jews fault.

 

[Lemon law]

Maybe Common Courtesy would prefer to read the opinions of Harretz regarding Netanyuhu.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/israel-is-a-country-evading-reality-1.360637

In somewhat related news Obama may speak to the US regarding future US Mid-east policy, as the various last cards are being played in the final run up to 9/2011.

But its also probable that the UN will have the final word in deciding if Israel will or will not go the Way of South Africa.

Its actions and not cheer leading that will be the final decider as the new pieces slowly fall into place.

 

[Genx87]

Maybe Common Courtesy would prefer to read the opinions of Harretz regarding Netanyuhu.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/israel-is-a-country-evading-reality-1.360637

In somewhat related news Obama may speak to the US regarding future US Mid-east policy, as the various last cards are being played in the final run up to 9/2011.

But its also probable that the UN will have the final word in deciding if Israel will or will not go the Way of South Africa.

Its actions and not cheer leading that will be the final decider as the new pieces slowly fall into place.

The UN wont do shit.

 

[Jaskalas]

israel and palestine, what a colossal waste of time and resources.

I agree, stop getting in the way and let Israel take it all.

 

[woolfe9999]

The myth in this thread is to assume Zahar speaks for all of Hamas. Some within Hamas opposed the Fatah Hamas reunification, and Zahar was on the losing side.

The reunification deal was signed last week, and now work is proceeding at a fast pace as the new joint Fatah Hamas government is expected to name all its governing officials within 10 days.

And when that list comes out and Zahar is not among them, we will know exactly how influential Zahar is now.

The other thing to point out, if there is to be a Palestinians state, the Pals with have to recognize Israel and Israel will have to recognize the Pals.

Of course we can also ask, how much longer will Israel let Bozo Netanyuhu and Lieberman speak for Israel? Already major parties in Israel are calling for new elections
because they think the Netanyuhu hard lines is dragging Israel into disrepute and international pariah State.

But its still too early to tell, the new joint Fatah Hamas government will be judged by its action.

And at the same time, so will Israel.

As we go into the final run up to 9/2011.

OK fair enough, for now. If Zahar doesn't represent the general position of Hamas, who in Hamas has said they *are* willing to recognize Israel? Please provide name and quotation.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Maybe Common Courtesy would prefer to read the opinions of Harretz regarding Netanyuhu.--- what does Harretz have anything to dom with Peace in the middle east? They have no influence..

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition...ality-1.360637

In somewhat related news Obama may speak to the US regarding future US Mid-east policy, as the various last cards are being played in the final run up to 9/2011. --- more hopr that Obama on Nationwide TV will throw Israel under the bus....

But its also probable that the UN will have the final word in deciding if Israel will or will not go the Way of South Africa. --- ...your South Africa dibble has been shot down numerous times...

Its actions and not cheer leading that will be the final decider as the new pieces slowly fall into place.

all predictions and dreaming again...none of which have come true......your btting record is just amazing!!

 

[Lemon law]

Just more Israeli cheer leading as Egypt, as I predicted has opened on border crossing to Gaza without Israel inspection.

But in related news, a New Gaza flotilla has announced its departure date.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/10/world/middleeast/10briefs-ART-Gaza.html?_r=1&ref=middleeast

And its been announced many EU legislators will be sailing with it.

Another card not yet played is the Netanyuhu speech to the US congress due in late May.

And all I can say, is that the odds that Israeli can extend its over long 44 year military occupation of Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem into 2012, is rapidly fading to about zero.

 

[Genx87]

And who is going to dislodge them from these territories??

 

[woolfe9999]

I'm still waiting for an answer to a simple factual question I posed Lemon Law. You said Zahar does not represent the general position of Hamas. I asked who in Hamas has said different on the question of recognizing Israel. I am asking you to back up a factual assertion you made.