No quagmire?

chess9

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Apr 15, 2000
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WASHINGTON (Nov. 13) - Under the pressure of increasing U.S. deaths in battle, President Bush said Thursday the United States wants Iraqis to take more responsibility for governing their troubled country and said coalition forces are determined to prevail over terrorists.

WASHINGTON (1970)
Under pressure from US Protests, in 1970, President Nixon said he would begin a series of "planned, orderly" reductions in US military personnel in Vietnam. He stated that this policy would allow the South Vietnamese to begin to take more responsibility for the war.




SAD ... but true

Too much Colt 45 and too many turns riding the bull have made Americans look like they never learned a darned thing.

Really sad....

-Robert
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
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No matter the outcome there, it better not become another Vietnam where the Country disgraced it's own soldiers. They are OUR Heros no matter what. They are also the World's Heros in ridding a Dictator from Power and killing the people there.

WMD or No WMD the guy did have to go and our Forces did it. Huah!
 

chess9

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Apr 15, 2000
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DMC:

Well, let's see, there are about 10-20 countries in the world with dictators worse or as bad as SH. Will we arm every man, woman and child in the U.S. and send them to Africa, Asia, South and Central America and the Middle East to put down the bad guys? Preemption is "pre-empty" as a doctrine and nation building was something GW promised not to do. Do you have any idea how expensive these operations really are? Not just money and lives, but lost credibility in the world?

Whoopy +++t we got rid of one more a++ in the world. 200 million a++es will now step up to the plate.

And, tell me how you'll like your Shiite government in Iraq? Gee, Israel will feel really warm and comfy knowing the U.S. was instrumental in helping the Shiites to power. We've exacerbated the problems in the Middle East.

Let's take care of America's problems HERE. This little exercise will cost us $100-$200 billion AT LEAST, and hundreds of dead boys.

It wasn't worth it.

-Robert
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,389
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WASHINGTON (Nov. 13) - Under the pressure of increasing U.S. deaths in battle, President Bush said Thursday the United States wants Iraqis to take more responsibility for governing their troubled country and said coalition forces are determined to prevail over terrorists.

WASHINTON (1970)
Under pressure from US Protests, in 1970, President Nixon said he would begin a series of "planned, orderly" reductions in US military personnel in Vietnam. He stated that this policy would allow the South Vietnamese to begin to take more responsibility for the war.
My god.......the possibilities are endless.

WASHINGTON (Nov. 13) - President Bush wakes up, brushes his teeth, and takes a dump.

BERLIN (1939) - Adolph Hitler wakes up, brushes his teeth, and takes a dump.


HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF: BUSH IS TEH DEVIL!!!


Threads like this debase this forum every bit as much as the insults you decry.
 
Dec 27, 2001
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Originally posted by: chess9

It wasn't worth it.

-Robert
For who? You? The average Iraqi? The world? Please explain why freedom for tens of millions of oppressed people and the removal of a brutal and dangerous regime that supported terrorism isn't worth a few hundred lives and a couple hundred billion dollars? Or were you quoting George Washington or Abraham Lincoln who also said similar things near the end of their respective wars?
 

Doboji

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
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Vietnam lasted 11 years.... Why dont we wait a couple years before we make these knee jerk assesments. And pray that it doesnt become a Vietnam.... I hope all you anti-war people are praying to be wrong... otherwise you are just plain scum.

-Max
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,389
29
91
Let's take care of America's problems HERE. This little exercise will cost us $100-$200 billion AT LEAST, and hundreds of dead boys.
Of course you're right Robert. I gues my question is that if you *really* meant what you say, we should solve *every* problem before we spend a dime on any foreign aid, no matter whom benefits, right?

Let's take care of America's problems HERE before we spend a few billion on Africa's aids epidemic. Let's take care of America's problems HERE before we spend a few billion on UN dues................

All this money should be used to change human nature here in the USA before we should spend it anywhere else. :D All of America's problems HERE can be solved by $$.


Well, I see things somewhat differently than you Robert. You see, I recognize the fact that Bush's promise not to "nation build" was made during a time of relative peace. I recognize that while 9/11 didn't directly involve Iraq, the war against Iraq serves a useful purpose relative to 9/11: Saddam was a state sponsor of terrorism (even if only Palestinian), you flaunt it, we stop your ability to continue it.

I see the money spent on Iraq as a potential investment, and I dearly hope that the intended outcome of this war comes to fruition (can you say the same?)--that Iraq becomes the first "democracy" and, ultimately, becomes a true ally of the US.

Where you and I differ is that you've already judged the outcome of this war, where I have not. I think I'll wait and see what happens a year, 2 years, and perhaps 5 years from now. My mind is open, your's is already made up.
 

chess9

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Apr 15, 2000
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Hero:

You assume tens of millions of people in Iraq have freedom, but the facts are to the contrary. SH is gone, but that doesn't mean they have freedom. Freedom implies-or at least I hope it does-a lot more than dumping one dictator and establishing a power vacuum.

Obviously, GW is going to "cut and run", country western songs to the contrary notwithstanding. If this is such a worthwhile cause then why aren't we staying there to install a democracy? And what makes you think the new Iraq will be better than the old Iraq if we don't stay? How do you know anyone has benefitted (other than a few U.S. government contractors) from our invasion, i.e., that we have done more good than harm? That's a pretty large assumption when we have thousands of dead Iraqi civilians and still no stability in the country or in the Middle East. What about the Kurds and minority Muslims who will get trashed by the Shiites once we leave?

Also, will Bush just turn governance over to a puppet regime that is quickly ousted once we leave? Gee, the U.S. has never done that before, right?

Do you really believe the American public is going to support this major blunder much longer? Look at the mess we've made in Afghanistan. Iraq will be 10 times worse than Afghanistan.

And didn't Bush lie to get the "permission" of the American public and Congress to drag us into this war?

Sorry, Hero, but Bush sees the writing on the wall. He will not be re-elected if he hasn't cleaned up his mess in Iraq within the next 6-9 months. His poll numbers regarding the war are falling and if the majority of Americans actually get conscious for a brief period his numbers will drop further. Karl Rove ain't dumb, he sees the writing on the wall. Election year politics will drive our policy in Iraq.

Sure, the comparisons between this bit of stupidity and VietNam are still somewhat tenuous, but if we stay in Iraq it will be Bush's VietNam. If we leave, he will disappoint his neocon bretheren. Poor Bush, hoist on his own petard.

You've been watch the Fox Cartoon Network, son, and your brain is wholly fried. :) j/k

-Robert

 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
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Originally posted by: chess9
DMC:

Well, let's see, there are about 10-20 countries in the world with dictators worse or as bad as SH. Will we arm every man, woman and child in the U.S. and send them to Africa, Asia, South and Central America and the Middle East to put down the bad guys? Preemption is "pre-empty" as a doctrine and nation building was something GW promised not to do. Do you have any idea how expensive these operations really are? Not just money and lives, but lost credibility in the world?

Whoopy +++t we got rid of one more a++ in the world. 200 million a++es will now step up to the plate.

And, tell me how you'll like your Shiite government in Iraq? Gee, Israel will feel really warm and comfy knowing the U.S. was instrumental in helping the Shiites to power. We've exacerbated the problems in the Middle East.

Let's take care of America's problems HERE. This little exercise will cost us $100-$200 billion AT LEAST, and hundreds of dead boys.

It wasn't worth it.

-Robert
Did I say I was for Pre-emptive strike? I said it is all of those opposed to oppressive Dictators to band together to dismantle them. Us and Britian going at it alone hurts not just us and the Brits but all of Democracy. It's almost a Victory for the Dictators and Terrorists of the World.


 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
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Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: chess9
DMC:

Well, let's see, there are about 10-20 countries in the world with dictators worse or as bad as SH. Will we arm every man, woman and child in the U.S. and send them to Africa, Asia, South and Central America and the Middle East to put down the bad guys? Preemption is "pre-empty" as a doctrine and nation building was something GW promised not to do. Do you have any idea how expensive these operations really are? Not just money and lives, but lost credibility in the world?

Whoopy +++t we got rid of one more a++ in the world. 200 million a++es will now step up to the plate.

And, tell me how you'll like your Shiite government in Iraq? Gee, Israel will feel really warm and comfy knowing the U.S. was instrumental in helping the Shiites to power. We've exacerbated the problems in the Middle East.

Let's take care of America's problems HERE. This little exercise will cost us $100-$200 billion AT LEAST, and hundreds of dead boys.

It wasn't worth it.

-Robert
Did I say I was for Pre-emptive strike? I said it is all of those opposed to oppressive Dictators to band together to dismantle them. Us and Britian going at it alone hurts not just us and the Brits but all of Democracy. It's almost a Victory for the Dictators and Terrorists of the World.
LOL. A War to end all Wars. It is not up to us to impose our will on others. We don't have the resources and more importantly the will to do you you suggest.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
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www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: chess9
DMC:

Well, let's see, there are about 10-20 countries in the world with dictators worse or as bad as SH. Will we arm every man, woman and child in the U.S. and send them to Africa, Asia, South and Central America and the Middle East to put down the bad guys? Preemption is "pre-empty" as a doctrine and nation building was something GW promised not to do. Do you have any idea how expensive these operations really are? Not just money and lives, but lost credibility in the world?

Whoopy +++t we got rid of one more a++ in the world. 200 million a++es will now step up to the plate.

And, tell me how you'll like your Shiite government in Iraq? Gee, Israel will feel really warm and comfy knowing the U.S. was instrumental in helping the Shiites to power. We've exacerbated the problems in the Middle East.

Let's take care of America's problems HERE. This little exercise will cost us $100-$200 billion AT LEAST, and hundreds of dead boys.

It wasn't worth it.

-Robert
Did I say I was for Pre-emptive strike? I said it is all of those opposed to oppressive Dictators to band together to dismantle them. Us and Britian going at it alone hurts not just us and the Brits but all of Democracy. It's almost a Victory for the Dictators and Terrorists of the World.
LOL. A War to end all Wars. It is not up to us to impose our will on others. We don't have the resources and more importantly the will to do you you suggest.
Guess you haven't seen the War in Iraq. Don't have a TV?

 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
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0
DMC:

You don't understand. The neocons don't want to have anything to do with the U.N. This is about American muscle. And, even if the U.N. is involved they are going to be very slow to act. Bringing democracy to the world is not going to be accomplished over night, and our invasion of Iraq did nothing to further that cause. What leads you to believe that Iraq will be the first country the U.S. has ever left with a democratic government since WWII? And, further, that Iraq will be the first democracy in the Middle East? Show me the evidence that is happening or will happen. The strong weight of the evidence is to the contrary and is further supported by the often quoted and leaked CIA memo posted here yesterday.

-Robert
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
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Corn:

I have a crystal ball. :)

Just because the horizontal hold went out on yours while watching the Fox Cartoon Network, don't blame me. :)

But, if you don't see the political danger for Bush and don't believe Bush is going to back away from this little mess then feel free to say so. While you're at it perhaps you'd like to give us the evidence that Iraq is not only moving towards democracy but will actually reach that goal. I would be pleased as punch if that would happen, but you'd have to give about 70 million or so Muslims a brain transplant. (I do know a doctor at the V.A. though.... :) )

-Robert
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
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Doboji:

I don't pray. Anyway, God is too busy right now dealing with a bad case of athlete's foot. She stepped waist deep in the big muddy....

Bwuahahahaha!!!

-Robert
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
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Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: chess9
DMC:

Well, let's see, there are about 10-20 countries in the world with dictators worse or as bad as SH. Will we arm every man, woman and child in the U.S. and send them to Africa, Asia, South and Central America and the Middle East to put down the bad guys? Preemption is "pre-empty" as a doctrine and nation building was something GW promised not to do. Do you have any idea how expensive these operations really are? Not just money and lives, but lost credibility in the world?

Whoopy +++t we got rid of one more a++ in the world. 200 million a++es will now step up to the plate.

And, tell me how you'll like your Shiite government in Iraq? Gee, Israel will feel really warm and comfy knowing the U.S. was instrumental in helping the Shiites to power. We've exacerbated the problems in the Middle East.

Let's take care of America's problems HERE. This little exercise will cost us $100-$200 billion AT LEAST, and hundreds of dead boys.

It wasn't worth it.

-Robert
Did I say I was for Pre-emptive strike? I said it is all of those opposed to oppressive Dictators to band together to dismantle them. Us and Britian going at it alone hurts not just us and the Brits but all of Democracy. It's almost a Victory for the Dictators and Terrorists of the World.
LOL. A War to end all Wars. It is not up to us to impose our will on others. We don't have the resources and more importantly the will to do you you suggest.
Guess you haven't seen the War in Iraq. Don't have a TV?
?? I must have misread your post as advocating ridding the whole world of oppressive Diictatorial Regimes
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,389
29
91
Just because the horizontal hold went out on yours while watching the Fox Cartoon Network, don't blame me.
I scratch my head in confusion and am left wondering what does Fox have to do with this discussion other than it's implied insult? My opinion of Fox:

Hey, I watched Fox News a total of 2 nights of war coverage and was embarrassed by Sheppard Smith's patriotic pandering. I clicked the channel without any help from speech hating liberal fascists.

I know, I know, you were just *trying* to be funny............

 

sciencewhiz

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2000
5,884
8
81
Originally posted by: Doboji
Vietnam lasted 11 years.... Why dont we wait a couple years before we make these knee jerk assesments. And pray that it doesnt become a Vietnam.... I hope all you anti-war people are praying to be wrong... otherwise you are just plain scum.
In this McDonalds society it's been like 11 years already.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: chess9
DMC:

Well, let's see, there are about 10-20 countries in the world with dictators worse or as bad as SH. Will we arm every man, woman and child in the U.S. and send them to Africa, Asia, South and Central America and the Middle East to put down the bad guys? Preemption is "pre-empty" as a doctrine and nation building was something GW promised not to do. Do you have any idea how expensive these operations really are? Not just money and lives, but lost credibility in the world?

Whoopy +++t we got rid of one more a++ in the world. 200 million a++es will now step up to the plate.

And, tell me how you'll like your Shiite government in Iraq? Gee, Israel will feel really warm and comfy knowing the U.S. was instrumental in helping the Shiites to power. We've exacerbated the problems in the Middle East.

Let's take care of America's problems HERE. This little exercise will cost us $100-$200 billion AT LEAST, and hundreds of dead boys.

It wasn't worth it.

-Robert
Did I say I was for Pre-emptive strike? I said it is all of those opposed to oppressive Dictators to band together to dismantle them. Us and Britian going at it alone hurts not just us and the Brits but all of Democracy. It's almost a Victory for the Dictators and Terrorists of the World.
LOL. A War to end all Wars. It is not up to us to impose our will on others. We don't have the resources and more importantly the will to do you you suggest.
Guess you haven't seen the War in Iraq. Don't have a TV?
?? I must have misread your post as advocating ridding the whole world of oppressive Diictatorial Regimes
Just took it it too much to heart, that's OK ;)

The posts have been very good.


 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Originally posted by: chess9
It wasn't worth it.

-Robert
For who? You? The average Iraqi? The world? Please explain why freedom for tens of millions of oppressed people and the removal of a brutal and dangerous regime that supported terrorism isn't worth a few hundred lives and a couple hundred billion dollars? Or were you quoting George Washington or Abraham Lincoln who also said similar things near the end of their respective wars?
Apparently we can add Hero0fPellinor to the list of racist Galt wanna-be's who don't see Iraqis as human beings. Disgraceful.
 

Mrburns2007

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2001
2,595
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0
Originally posted by: chess9
DMC:

Well, let's see, there are about 10-20 countries in the world with dictators worse or as bad as SH. Will we arm every man, woman and child in the U.S. and send them to Africa, Asia, South and Central America and the Middle East to put down the bad guys? Preemption is "pre-empty" as a doctrine and nation building was something GW promised not to do. Do you have any idea how expensive these operations really are? Not just money and lives, but lost credibility in the world?

Whoopy +++t we got rid of one more a++ in the world. 200 million a++es will now step up to the plate.

And, tell me how you'll like your Shiite government in Iraq? Gee, Israel will feel really warm and comfy knowing the U.S. was instrumental in helping the Shiites to power. We've exacerbated the problems in the Middle East.

Let's take care of America's problems HERE. This little exercise will cost us $100-$200 billion AT LEAST, and hundreds of dead boys.

It wasn't worth it.

-Robert

You selfish bastard, America is the richest nation on the earth and you can't find it in your heart to spend $150 billion and some brave souls who are willing to fight tyranny to free every future generation of Iraqi's.

It's people like you who are ruining this country with your me attitude.

 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: Mrburns2007
You selfish bastard, America is the richest nation on the earth and you can't find it in your heart to spend $150 billion and some brave souls who are willing to fight tyranny to free every future generation of Iraqi's.

It's people like you who are ruining this country with your me attitude.

What a phony argument.



By the way, it's closer to $300 to $500 billion and up to 50,000 dead human beings ... unless you, too, are one of the racist Galt wanna-be's who doesn't see Iraqis as human.
 

Mrburns2007

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2001
2,595
0
0
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: Mrburns2007
You selfish bastard, America is the richest nation on the earth and you can't find it in your heart to spend $150 billion and some brave souls who are willing to fight tyranny to free every future generation of Iraqi's.

It's people like you who are ruining this country with your me attitude.

What a phony argument.



By the way, it's closer to $300 to $500 billion and up to 50,000 dead human beings ... unless you, too, are one of the racist Galt wanna-be's who doesn't see Iraqis as human.
Nothing phony about it, people are selfish cause they don't care about the people who have to live under Saddam Hussein which I can't even imagine the horror of what life is like living that way.

Don't know where your getting $300 to $500 billion but I do agree that a lot of Iraqi's were probably killed.

PS: Even if it is $500 billion it's money well spent to free every future generation, liberty is priceless.

 

Witling

Golden Member
Jul 30, 2003
1,448
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0
Mr. Burns. The irony in your message didn't come out. You've got to put in one of the little emoticons when you're joking. :) Bowfinger thought you actually meant it when you did that little rip about spending $150 B and losing a few lives.
 
Dec 27, 2001
11,272
1
0
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Originally posted by: chess9
It wasn't worth it.

-Robert
For who? You? The average Iraqi? The world? Please explain why freedom for tens of millions of oppressed people and the removal of a brutal and dangerous regime that supported terrorism isn't worth a few hundred lives and a couple hundred billion dollars? Or were you quoting George Washington or Abraham Lincoln who also said similar things near the end of their respective wars?
Apparently we can add Hero0fPellinor to the list of racist Galt wanna-be's who don't see Iraqis as human beings. Disgraceful.
And again bowfinger shows his keen comprehension skills. Did you read the post from which I quoted in my reply and it's reference to hundreds of lives to see wher I got that?

I really hope some day you grasp how imperseptive you are and try to seek some help or refrain from opening your mouth or typing on a keyboard...unless, of course, it isn't hooked up to a computer.
 

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