NO post, NO beeps.. NO clue.. PLEASE HELP!

[thelastjuju]

Hey all.. I have a custom PC that randomly stopped POSTing, but have been out-of-the-loop for at least a few years and have been very lucky and have not troubleshooted for a PC problem in about 6 or 7 years :twisted:

This rig was working perfectly for about 4 years since it was built, and then last week I noticed when I went to turn it on it simply wouldn't post. So I turned it off, tried again and it came right back up the second time. A few days later, same problem, except this time it took a few tries for it to come on, and then after some "hesitation" it posted after a few seconds. (Would this be an indicator of the mobo failing maybe?)

Finally this morning, it completely fails to post and nothing will get it to display to the monitor. The case fans spin up, the CPU fan spins, but the Video Card and its fan DO NOT.. the DVD drive DOES NOT and it won't even open. The Keyboard and mouse DO NOT light up either!

I really don't have a clue how to try and narrow it down as to what could be causing this. I've been searching the web for the past few hours and it seems I'm the very first person that is unable to solve this problem by resetting the CMOS or removing/reconfiguring RAM slots.. both did nothing for me and I get no beeps with no RAM installed. What can I do next? Many years ago I would have had the knowledge to know what the next step is, but I no longer have a clue!

Any help is greatly appreciated! Thanks!

 

[Harvey]

If you've already tried a different video card and one of your sticks of RAM at a time (or different RAM), I would think that either your motherboard or your power supply is failing. One obvious thing to check on your motherboard is the electrolytic capacitors. Those are the tall, cylindrical components on your board. If any of them shows signs of leakage at the top or around the base, or if the tops of any of them are bulging or domed, instead of flat, they have failed. Here are pics of the conditions:

Bulging:

Leaking:

In theory, you could replace them with high quality caps of the same value and voltage rating. In practice, even if you're very experienced at soldering and you know how to select qualified caps, it's not easy to remove them from a multi-layer circuit board without damaging the connections to the middle layers. I know because I am experienced at soldering, and I've tried with varying degrees of success.

Even if you were successful at replacing the caps, or even if the caps do not appear to have failed, they could still be bad. Given the age of your motherboard, there would be no guarantee that the failed caps didn't cause other components to fail. If you think your CPU is still good enough to put into another board, go for it. Otherwise save any components worth keeping (vid card, etc.), and move on.

If it's your power supply, you can test it by borrowing another supply and connecting it to your motherboard. If it works, you've solved the problem. If it does the same thing, you're back to a failed motherboard.

Good luck.

 

[thelastjuju]

Thanks so much for the reply. Its times like this you really appreciate the value of a perfectly stable PC!

I carefully inspected the motherboard, and all the capacitors look perfectly fine.

I will try to get a hold of another power supply in the meantime. Hopefully that is the problem, since correct me if I'm wrong.. but that would be a much easier fix than if it was the motherboard since I'm basically just swapping it for a new one.

If it IS the motherboard, I am pretty much screwed aren't I? That motherboard was off the market for years now.. a Gigabyte GA P35 DS3L .. so I would pretty much be forced to make an upgrade to the RAM and CPU, wouldn't I? Or is there some sort of backwards compatibility available where I'd be alright? Not to mention I'd have to reformat and use an additional registration key for windows.. so lets hope its not the motherboard.

I'm almost afraid to "borrow" the PSU from the HTPC rig I'm on now in fear that when I try and put it back together, I'll have yet ANOTHER problem! :\

Thanks again!

 

[Harvey]

I will try to get a hold of another power supply in the meantime. Hopefully that is the problem, since correct me if I'm wrong.. but that would be a much easier fix than if it was the motherboard since I'm basically just swapping it for a new one.

ATX power supplies are pretty much interchangeable, give or take the number and types of auxilliary connectors. Your board has a 24 pin ATX power connector. The added pins over an older 20 pin connector are redundant power and ground pins. If your test supply has a 20 pin connector, it should work well enough to test your board.

If it IS the motherboard, I am pretty much screwed aren't I? That motherboard was off the market for years now.. a Gigabyte GA P35 DS3L .. so I would pretty much be forced to make an upgrade to the RAM and CPU, wouldn't I? Or is there some sort of backwards compatibility available where I'd be alright? Not to mention I'd have to reformat and use an additional registration key for windows.. so lets hope its not the motherboard.

Here's Gigabyte's specs for the GA-P35-DS3L rev. 2. They both use the same chipset. The only difference with rev. 1 is a few added features. The really good news is that it has newer, more reliable solid capacitors, which is why they're probably still good.

The basics are that it uses an Intel socket LGA 775 CPU and DDR2 RAM. You can still buy new motherboards that will support your CPU, vid card and RAM. Here's a list from Newegg, priced low to high. Of those, two have mail in rebates, the least expensive of which is $25 after rebate.

Since they use a different chipsets, you will probably have to re-install Windows from the ground up, but everything else should move easily... assuming those components are still working.

I'm almost afraid to "borrow" the PSU from the HTPC rig I'm on now in fear that when I try and put it back together, I'll have yet ANOTHER problem! :\

Your machine is currently a DED (Dark Emitting Device). Any other problem can't be greater than the one you have, now.

Thanks again!

YW

 

[thelastjuju]

Wow. I was not expecting quite this much help. I cannot thank you enough Harvey! :biggrin:

So I guess this should be a pretty minor ordeal then. Good to know the CPU and RAM are still compatible, but hopefully the motherboard didn't take them down with it too!

I will just have to reinstall all my games all over again which will be the biggest pain. :\

 

[Harvey]

Wow. I was not expecting quite this much help. I cannot thank you enough Harvey! :biggrin:

That's what you get for coming to AnandTech.

When you get it up and running, I'd recommend investing in a second hard drive the same size as your current drive and a mobile rack like this SATA rack or this PATA rack.

SATA:

PATA:

Then, get a copy or Acronis True Image, a program that can "clone" your hard drive. That is, it makes an exact, running duplicate of your hard drive. If your main drive fails, the cloned image can directly replace the old drive, or it can be used to reload everything, including your operating files, on a new drive without re-installing the OS or your programs.

If your hard drive fails or becomes irreparably infected, it WILL save your butt. When you're not using the clone drive, unplug it. No virus can jump the air gap between your machine and a drive that isn't plugged in.

Seagate and Western Digital offer free versions of True Image for their drives. In both cases, the only restriction is that at least one of the drives in the chain must be from the company offering the program. Seagate owns Maxtor so their version works for both brands. Matched pairs of drives are nice, but it isn't necessary, and you can bounce back and forth between SATA and PATA drives of different sizes.

Acronis True Image for Western Digital drives:

Info.

Program.

Manual.

Acronis True Image for Seagate and Maxtor drives:

Info.

Program.

Manual.

Basic info about Acronis True Image.

Unfortunately, hard drive prices just skyrocketed due to the floods in Thailand, but you may still be able to find some relatively decent prices on a suitable drive.

Most important, unlike the older DOS based versions of Norton Ghost, which I love and still use with XP, it works with Vista and Windows 7.

Now that I think about it, get the second drive, mobile rack and program before you start re-installing the OS. When I'm doing new installations, I use it to clone as I go after reaching good stopping points. My procedure:

1. Do NOT connect to the Internet. You don't want to be exposed until you install full body armor (AV, anti-spyware and firewall)

2. Do the basic installation, and copy all of your installation files for your AV, anti-spyware, firewall and any utilities you want to have on hand to your Downloads folder.

3. Clone the drive. If the next thing you install screws up, you can clone it back and start from the last good point, instead of having to start over.

4. Install your AV, anti-spyware and firewall. Connect to the web ONLY when necessary to validate and update them.

5. NOW, you can go to MS to activate and update Windows.

6. Clone the drive.

7. Continue the cycle of incremental installations and cloning until it's done.

The basic rule is, never allow your system to get more fscked up than you can un-fsck it. As long as you're on the same motherboard, if your system is stable, and you clone your drive regularly immediately after sweeping it for malware, nothing can take your last good backup condition away from you. If anything worse happens, such as a failed motherboard, it's as good as any other backup to save your files.

It's also a good idea to sweep and clone your drive before installing any new program because Murphy was an optimist.

 

[VirtualLarry]

probably the PSU, if the DVD drive fails to open. Normally, as long as they have power, the button on the front will open/close the drive, regardless of interface (unless the drive has recieved a "lock tray" command over the interface).

 

[thelastjuju]

Thanks for the tips.. that's definitely an interesting method for backing up data.

What I've been doing is every month or so I simply clone my hard drives the manual way..:whiste: I leave an extra SATA cable and power cable just hanging with some extra slack so I can connect the backup drive and copy over the files using good old copy and paste. Antiquated I guess, I should look at more modern ways of doing this.

I've always been paranoid about losing my music, photos, videos, and especially my game saves and mods. So I even like to take that second hard drive and keep it in a completely different location. Just in case my house is ever robbed, burned down, someone spills liquid on my pc, worst case scenario stuff.

I don't even use anti spyware stuff to be honest. I mostly stick to the same dozen or so websites, and occasionally venture on to reputable sites like this one. Have been on that setup running XP SP3 and have yet to get a single virus, malware, trojan, etc.. this recent problem has been the first thing I've ran into since it arrived from newegg.()

I'm going to have to try this tomorrow in the day light, so I'll let you know what happens. Hoping its the PSU! Its an OCZ 600w.. funny because I've always felt like I skimped by going with that heavily rebated OCZ over the Antecs I got in the past.

 

[KGB]

Have you tried replacing the CMOS battery? I know this sounds stupid but some motherboards simply will not fire up with a dead battery. Given the age of your unit, the battery should be about dead by now.

 

[thelastjuju]

Have you tried replacing the CMOS battery? I know this sounds stupid but some motherboards simply will not fire up with a dead battery. Given the age of your unit, the battery should be about dead by now.

Not replacing it, only pulling it out and putting it back after a few minutes. Can I find these little batterys at radio shack or do they have to be special ordered?

Just seems there are too many possibilities and I don't have the expertise or tool set to narrow it down. This is where the help from places like this is much appreciated.

EDIT / UPDATE: Swapped a working PSU, and sure enough that was it! Thing Posted right away!

Going to order a new power supply from newegg right away, and so it should be here tomorrow! Lets hope nothing else disastrously unexpected happens in the meantime. Thanks fellas!

I am replacing an OCZ 600w (GSX600) .. and will obviously not be going with OCZ again. My HTPC is using a recycled power supply that will be EIGHT years old believe it or not.. an Antec Truepower 550w.. pretty impressive, as the other one didn't last half that long.

Will I be okay with something like this more simplistic Antec?:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371016

Or would I be better off investing in a higher performance model Corsair "performance" model like this for better future-proofing? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139005

 

[Harvey]

Antec makes good PSU's, it's a high efficiency model and the 49 reviews for the one at your link are all highly positive. I mention that because Newegg doesn't seem to squelch negative user reviews when they're appropriate. I've found they're among the most fair and accurate on vendor sites.

If this one's more than you want to pay, you can search for others on their site and elsewhere. Do your homework for those that interest you. You can start by looking through our Power Supply forum and other forums, and you can find a lot of info just by searching Google for the make and model number.

One thing you really should do is use Newegg's PSU Calculator (or the same system on any other site) to determine how much power you really need for your system. It accounts for the requirements for your CPU, vid card, drives, and you can allow for any other components you may want to add. It will help you to narrow down your choices, and there's no point in paying for a supply that provides far more power than your current system will ever need.

If you have any decent local component vendors, you may want to check with them to see what they stock and at what price. The main advantage would be that, if there's any problem, you'll have your PSU without to wait or pay for shipping, and you'll have immediate, local recourse if there are any problems.

Glad we could help. Now, your only other problem is that you may now become addicted to our forums. :biggrin:

 

[KGB]

Glad you got it solved.

Yeah, you can get the batteries at Radio Shack so replace it while you have it exposed.

 

[thelastjuju]

Thanks, I actually ended up ordering a Seasonic unit.. the reviews on newegg, which I too value very much so.. seem to be the strongest, almost every model they make is dominated with 5 star ratings and astonishingly few 1-3 star reviews.

I'm wondering how that power supply I have is still running 8 years strong though.. am I just really lucky? Its been on pretty much every day for hours on end. Its been the ONLY part I've been able to reuse from my very first build, which is pretty damned impressive IMO :whiste: Is it maybe the whole "they don't make em like they used to" type of deal?

I also had no clue multiple hard drives required so many more watts .. assuming newegg's calculator is accurate.

Thanks again guys, this is a great forum. I'll definitely be sticking around this place :biggrin:

 

[Harvey]

I don't even use anti spyware stuff to be honest. I mostly stick to the same dozen or so websites, and occasionally venture on to reputable sites like this one. Have been on that setup running XP SP3 and have yet to get a single virus, malware, trojan, etc..

You don't know that for sure, and if you're running without anti-spyware, I'd bet you'll be shocked by how much is on your drive the first time you run a good one. I use the free version of SuperAntiSpyware.

Try it. Sooner is definitely better. Not using a good anti-spyware program or AV is like running naked through your town square with a big "Kick Me" sign on your back.

Thanks, I actually ended up ordering a Seasonic unit.. the reviews on newegg, which I too value very much so.. seem to be the strongest, almost every model they make is dominated with 5 star ratings and astonishingly few 1-3 star reviews.

I'm wondering how that power supply I have is still running 8 years strong though.. am I just really lucky? Its been on pretty much every day for hours on end. Its been the ONLY part I've been able to reuse from my very first build, which is pretty damned impressive IMO :whiste: Is it maybe the whole "they don't make em like they used to" type of deal?

Many supply makers actually buy OEM supplies from major manufacturers, including Seasonic, which has always had a very good rep. I've seen a lot of articles and forum posts evaluating various PSU models that include reports of the actual maker of the supply. Contrary to your negative statements about OCZ supplies, THIS one held up very well. That doesn't mean all supplies from OCZ will be as good or as durable.

I also had no clue multiple hard drives required so many more watts .. assuming newegg's calculator is accurate.

Spinning an electric motor takes power because it's moving mass, not just electrons.

Thanks again guys, this is a great forum. I'll definitely be sticking around this place :biggrin:

Buahahahaha! Another AT junkie is born. :biggrin:

 

[thelastjuju]

Just installed the new PSU, and I'm good to go.. what a feeling of relief! :awe:

I guess I should be more proactive, so running some virus scans wouldn't be such a bad idea.

I noticed when I pulled my old dead OCZ power supply out, it was EXTRAORDINARILY dusty on the inside. I mean, an absolute absurd amount of dust was accumulating in and around the little inside parts. Huge chunks like rocks! Could that have been what killed the thing?

 

[Harvey]

Just installed the new PSU, and I'm good to go.. what a feeling of relief! :awe:

:thumbsup:

I guess I should be more proactive, so running some virus scans wouldn't be such a bad idea.

I once read the manual for the human body. It says there's supposed to be only one asshole issued for each human being. Viruses, spyware, spam, etc. are proof that someone's been over-producing.

Do it! The best defense is a good offense.

I noticed when I pulled my old dead OCZ power supply out, it was EXTRAORDINARILY dusty on the inside. I mean, an absolute absurd amount of dust was accumulating in and around the little inside parts. Huge chunks like rocks! Could that have been what killed the thing?

No question that it could have caused the failure. All that dust gets in the way of air circulation and allows the components to overheat. In fact, the circuitry in your old PSU probably includes thermal protection, and if you blow it out, it may even start working again. If that happens, you'll have learned an interesting lesson. ()