No One Is Probably Going To Be Surprised

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
Just think about what the Russian national gymanstics team must be like, theres certainly one particular individual prowling around there, and one that would cause these coverups and institutional runarounds look like amateurs.

A 12-year-old gymnast molested by an Olympic coach during “therapy” sessions.

Children as young as 6 secretly photographed nude by coaches.

Coaches who slipped a finger inside girls’ leotards.

A coach having almost daily sex with a 14-year-old at one of the country’s most prestigious gyms.

No one knows exactly how many children have been sexually exploited in America’s gyms over the past 20 years. But an IndyStar-USA TODAY Network review of hundreds of police files and court cases across the country provides for the first time a measure of just how pervasive the problem is.

At least 368 gymnasts have alleged some form of sexual abuse at the hands of their coaches, gym owners and other adults working in gymnastics. That’s a rate of one every 20 days. And it's likely an undercount.

IndyStar previously reported that top officials at USA Gymnastics, one of the nation’s most prominent Olympic organizations, failed to alert police to many allegations of sexual abuse that occurred on their watch and stashed complaints in files that have been kept secret. But the problem is far worse. A nine-month investigation found that predatory coaches were allowed to move from gym to gym, undetected by a lax system of oversight, or dangerously passed on by USA Gymnastics-certified gyms.

USA Gymnastics calls itself a leader in child safety. In a statement responding to IndyStar’s questions, it said: “Nothing is more important to USA Gymnastics, the Board of Directors and CEO Steve Penny than protecting athletes, which requires sustained vigilance by everyone — coaches, athletes, parents, administrators and officials. We are saddened when any athlete has been harmed in the course of his or her gymnastics career.”

The organization noted several initiatives aimed at creating a safer environment, including the use of criminal background checks for coaches, the practice of publishing the names of coaches banned from its competitions, and programs that provide educational materials to member gyms.

But IndyStar’s investigation found:

• USA Gymnastics focuses its efforts to stop sexual abuse on educating members instead of setting strict ground rules and enforcing them. It says it can't take aggressive action because member gyms are independent businesses and because of restrictions in federal law pertaining to Olympic organizations. Both are contentions others dispute.

• Gym owners have a conflict of interest when it comes to reporting abuse. Some fear harm to their business. When confronted with evidence of abuse, many quietly have fired the suspected abusers and failed to warn future employers. Some of those dangerous coaches continued to work with children.

• Some coaches are fired at gym after gym without being tracked or flagged by USA Gymnastics, or losing their membership with the organization. USA Gymnastics often has no idea when a coach is fired by a gym and no systematic way to keep track. Ray Adams was fired or forced to resign from six gyms in four states. Yet some gym owners hired Adams, believing his record was clean.

• Though the vast majority of officials put children’s well-being ahead of business and competition, some officials at every level have not. Coaches suspected of abuse kept their jobs as long as they accepted special monitoring. Others were allowed to finish their season before being fired. In 2009, Doug Boger was named a USA Gymnastics Coach of the Year and was sent to international competition while under investigation for alleged sexual abuse.

• Victims’ stories have been treated with skepticism by USA Gymnastics officials, gym owners, coaches and parents. Former gymnasts Charmaine Carnes and Jennifer Sey said they felt pressured by Penny not to pursue allegations of abuse by prominent coaches Don Peters and Boger. Carnes said she thought Penny tried to keep the claims about Boger quiet for as long as possible to protect the sport’s image and win championships, a characterization that USA Gymnastics disputes.

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/...gymnasts-allege-sexual-exploitation/95198724/
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
31,024
2,687
126
I've always said that with the rising prevalence of pedophilia in schools we should implement annual psychological screening of teachers and coaches to weed out those who are sexually attracted to children. A series of repetitive probing questions should be asked of those employees while hooked up to machines that detect their reactions.

At the same time we should also be wary of false accusations, which has happened. But most of the time the accusations are true.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
I've always said that with the rising prevalence of pedophilia in schools we should implement annual psychological screening of teachers and coaches to weed out those who are sexually attracted to children. A series of repetitive probing questions should be asked of those employees while hooked up to machines that detect their reactions. Why cant we do this?

Why does that sound like something you would think of.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,067
24,397
136
I've always said that with the rising prevalence of pedophilia in schools we should implement annual psychological screening of teachers and coaches to weed out those who are sexually attracted to children. A series of repetitive probing questions should be asked of those employees while hooked up to machines that detect their reactions.

At the same time we should also be wary of false accusations, which has happened. But most of the time the accusations are true.

Lie detector tests are too inaccurate. Even their biggest proponents say it's 90% accurate, while those who have more mixed feelings about them say it's 70% at best.

You just can't have something that gets it wrong 10-30% of the time be such a measuring stick IMO.

I'd probably fail any lie detector test. I get so much anxiety when going into any type of interview situation a lot of the time, but not all. My heart rate is through the roof and probably all my other bio measurables are showing a significant state of 'distress', for lack of a better word.

"the symptoms of nervousness or anxiety are the same symptoms people exhibit when lying - See more at: http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/20...admissible-in-court.html#sthash.GZI0byBT.dpuf"

Lie detector tests are not always admissible in court, and are not allowed in military courts.


I think it's a very very bad idea. There are other ways to catch those sickos.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
31,024
2,687
126
Lie detector tests are too inaccurate. Even their biggest proponents say it's 90% accurate, while those who have more mixed feelings about them say it's 70% at best.

You just can't have something that gets it wrong 10-30% of the time be such a measuring stick IMO.

I'd probably fail any lie detector test. I get so much anxiety when going into any type of interview situation a lot of the time, but not all. My heart rate is through the roof and probably all my other bio measurables are showing a significant state of 'distress', for lack of a better word.

"the symptoms of nervousness or anxiety are the same symptoms people exhibit when lying - See more at: http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/20...admissible-in-court.html#sthash.GZI0byBT.dpuf"

Lie detector tests are not always admissible in court, and are not allowed in military courts.

I think it's a very very bad idea. There are other ways to catch those sickos.

Then how about simply asking questions? They can submit written answers once a year to personnel.

Something like:

1) What do you find attractive about the children you come in contact with?

2) Under what circumstances is it okay to touch children? Do you touch your students?

3) Is it okay for an adult to fantasize while at work?

And so on.

I think it would be interesting to see how your "employees" answer these questions. Sure, you could have liars who would say the opposite of how they really think or feel, but that is why you ask the questions several different ways. You might not be able to fire teachers based on answers but you might get a better insight into their views.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,788
6,347
126
Then how about simply asking questions? They can submit written answers once a year to personnel.

Something like:

1) What do you find attractive about the children you come in contact with?

2) Under what circumstances is it okay to touch children? Do you touch your students?

3) Is it okay for an adult to fantasize while at work?

And so on.

I think it would be interesting to see how your "employees" answer these questions. Sure, you could have liars who would say the opposite of how they really think or feel, but that is why you ask the questions several different ways. You might not be able to fire teachers based on answers but you might get a better insight into their views.

:confused:
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
Do you have a better idea? We can be proactive before we have to be reactive.

I think schools sharing info about offenders, taking complaints thoughtfully and earnestly, and generally correcting misconduct and corruption in school bureaucracies.

What you are basically proposing is Orwellianism.
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
I've always said that with the rising prevalence of pedophilia in schools we should implement annual psychological screening of teachers and coaches to weed out those who are sexually attracted to children. A series of repetitive probing questions should be asked of those employees while hooked up to machines that detect their reactions.

At the same time we should also be wary of false accusations, which has happened. But most of the time the accusations are true.
Probably the only people who would submit to that behavior for teachers' and primary school coaches' salaries are really dedicated pedophiles. Of course, probably the lie detectors would weed out those pedophiles who aren't also sociopaths . . .
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,940
542
126
Do you have a better idea? We can be proactive before we have to be reactive.
It would probably be a lot easier if it weren't for the Catholic church's centuries-old campaign of eroding children's trust in adult authority by systematically shielding pedophiles and demonizing their victims.

But hey, God's will be done, right?
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,067
24,397
136
Probably the only people who would submit to that behavior for teachers' and primary school coaches' salaries are really dedicated pedophiles. Of course, probably the lie detectors would weed out those pedophiles who aren't also sociopaths . . .

lie detectors are a highly flawed solution. you can see my post not too far above.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
31,024
2,687
126
Probably the only people who would submit to that behavior for teachers' and primary school coaches' salaries are really dedicated pedophiles. Of course, probably the lie detectors would weed out those pedophiles who aren't also sociopaths . . .

If they do not submit to regular psychological screening they will have to find another line of work. We invest too much in our future to cut corners in this area. One teacher is arrested almost every single day in America for molestation or worse. It is time to change the way we do things in education.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
It would probably be a lot easier if it weren't for the Catholic church's centuries-old campaign of eroding children's trust in adult authority by systematically shielding pedophiles and demonizing their victims.

But hey, God's will be done, right?
Ban Catholic priests from the USA gymnastic teams,problem solved.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
If they do not submit to regular psychological screening they will have to find another line of work. We invest too much in our future to cut corners in this area. One teacher is arrested almost every single day in America for molestation or worse. It is time to change the way we do things in education.
Rather than involve pop psychology, I'd prefer the Ronald Reagan method: trust, but verify. No teacher or coach should ever be alone with a child, period. Assuming baby bouncers are 1 in 1,000, then getting two in the same job at the same time would be 1 in 1,000,000.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,081
136
• USA Gymnastics focuses its efforts to stop sexual abuse on educating members instead of setting strict ground rules and enforcing them. It says it can't take aggressive action because member gyms are independent businesses and because of restrictions in federal law pertaining to Olympic organizations. Both are contentions others dispute.

• Gym owners have a conflict of interest when it comes to reporting abuse. Some fear harm to their business. When confronted with evidence of abuse, many quietly have fired the suspected abusers and failed to warn future employers. Some of those dangerous coaches continued to work with children.

• Some coaches are fired at gym after gym without being tracked or flagged by USA Gymnastics, or losing their membership with the organization. USA Gymnastics often has no idea when a coach is fired by a gym and no systematic way to keep track. Ray Adams was fired or forced to resign from six gyms in four states. Yet some gym owners hired Adams, believing his record was clean.

• Though the vast majority of officials put children’s well-being ahead of business and competition, some officials at every level have not. Coaches suspected of abuse kept their jobs as long as they accepted special monitoring. Others were allowed to finish their season before being fired. In 2009, Doug Boger was named a USA Gymnastics Coach of the Year and was sent to international competition while under investigation for alleged sexual abuse.

• Victims’ stories have been treated with skepticism by USA Gymnastics officials, gym owners, coaches and parents. Former gymnasts Charmaine Carnes and Jennifer Sey said they felt pressured by Penny not to pursue allegations of abuse by prominent coaches Don Peters and Boger. Carnes said she thought Penny tried to keep the claims about Boger quiet for as long as possible to protect the sport’s image and win championships, a characterization that USA Gymnastics disputes.

So basically, Penn State for pre-teens?
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
Sounds like the new Trump standards to me

Just think of all the rich businessmen who would love to be local "gymnastics managers", and I bet they would give thousands of dollars each to Trump fundraisers. Businessmen love exploitation. I think the owners & staff of Forbes are apparently covert supporters of NAMBLA.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,820
136
Have to laugh at Felix's unironic suggestion that they ask people questions -- as if a pedophile asked such obvious questions would actually tell the truth.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
352
126
The solution is a little invasive, but when the innocence of children and the potential for sexual assault is at risk, i don't think privacy is really a concern anybody can reasonably have.

Take teachers, coaches, parents, school bus drivers, basically anybody with potential access to children. You sit them down with temperature sensors to their genitals, and subject them to images of that stuff, if the temperature goes up, their brain is routing blood to those parts, and they are becoming sexually aroused. Lock em up.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,820
136
The solution is a little invasive, but when the innocence of children and the potential for sexual assault is at risk, i don't think privacy is really a concern anybody can reasonably have.

Take teachers, coaches, parents, school bus drivers, basically anybody with potential access to children. You sit them down with temperature sensors to their genitals, and subject them to images of that stuff, if the temperature goes up, their brain is routing blood to those parts, and they are becoming sexually aroused. Lock em up.

Even if that wasn't rather embarrassing, horrific, and illegal (you can't "lock 'em up" for a crime they haven't committed yet), wouldn't it be utterly ineffective? Pedophiles may be physically/psychologically out of whack, but that doesn't mean that they all have uncontrollable urges. Subject them to a test and it's guaranteed they'll suppress their reactions to make sure they pass muster.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Then how about simply asking questions? They can submit written answers once a year to personnel.

Something like:

1) What do you find attractive about the children you come in contact with?

2) Under what circumstances is it okay to touch children? Do you touch your students?

3) Is it okay for an adult to fantasize while at work?

And so on.

I think it would be interesting to see how your "employees" answer these questions. Sure, you could have liars who would say the opposite of how they really think or feel, but that is why you ask the questions several different ways. You might not be able to fire teachers based on answers but you might get a better insight into their views.


Yea that would totally work!!!