How can you say that their government is evil. They are thugs & muderous people that run the govenment like every other countries. Look at how many deaths America has inflicted upon people in foreign soil, and about to do so again.
Nope, Israel won a war, they could have simple kicked out all 3 million Palestinians if they had wished to do so.
Perhaps they should have, would have solved the problem. Kick them out, send them to Egypt and Jordan and let them deal with them.
Yep, Israel choose to ignore the UN. Maybe that was a bad idea, but Israel had also been attacked 3 times by that point (and in 1973 they were attacked yet again). They wanted a buffer zone to give them some room to deal with future wars.
Why is that a problem? Do you want the US to have to obey the UN? I don't...
The whole point of the UN was to provide a common place for diplomacy, not to authorize wars.
Israel is our ally, Iraq is not...
Israel obeys our wishes, Iraq does not...
I NEVER said we were even handed or fair, what I did say is that Iraq should comply because those 250,000 soldiers outside his country are going to kick his butt if he doesn't.
----------------
Yes, it really comes down to that, doesn't it? We have a bigger stick than Iraq does, we want some things out of Iraq. They can comply, or be smacked by our big stick.
That is what war is, forcing your wishes onto someone else against their will.
: ) Hopper
Hayabusa Rider
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So, in another word the US is not the world police, but a big bully that do things & maybe take things that it want.
YES. The United States was integral in FORMING the United Nations. If you believe that the United States shouldn't have to follow it, this discussion ends here. You know nothing and are in your own world.
Wrong. What do you think the UN Security Council is? Diplomacy and war go hand in hand, you cannot be diplomatic without discussing war.
I swear, it gets worse every time you open your mouth.
You're an idiot. Plain and simple. Unilateral US power (or any country) scares the sh!t out of me and should you too. If you trust the government (especially ours) with complete power, you need to evaluate how incredibly jaded you are. "Absolute power corrupts absolutely."
Your gung-ho attitude of kick all their asses, we're better, makes me sick. It's what fosters anti-American sentiment around the world, and it's what brings people to believe that attacking America will solve their problems. Clearly you know nothing of history, diplomacy, political science or foreign relations, and I suggest that if you wish anyone to take your opinions seriously, you read up on it.
The farthest we (or any nation) has ever gotten in terms of foreign policy is with diplomacy, not war. Period. End of story.
Hayabusa Rider
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I've said it before and I'll say it again...
I want to do right by the people of Iraq. I don't want to kill a bunch of innocent people, no sane person does.
I just agree with Bush when he said the risks of doing nothing are higher than the risks of attacking Iraq.
This is a win-win for us, and a win for the Iraqi people who will be better off no matter what replaces Saddam.
The only loser here is Saddam and his henchmen...
: ) Hopper
you know there is something here you people are not considering. If sadam lobs a scud loaded with VX gas on Tel-Aviv, the Israelis will unleash Hell itself. That situation would be absolute and total devastation. And all the diplomacy in the world won't work then.
Hayabusarider - That would be about right. In another 12 years he will be nuclear capable, probably thanks to the frenchand then what? Maybe we will be able to pay the ransome he demands as in N.K. today. Seems logical.
Yes, and I have no doubt that another 12 would indeed keep him from attacking anyone directly...
What changed was 9/11. Now he knows he can attack without having to attack. The threat changed at that point, which is why we are attacking now and were not going to attack on 9/10.
I'm not afraid Saddam is going to attack Kuwait, I'm afraid he'll give WMD to terrorists. He can do that even with the embargo against him.
: ) Hopper
Hayabusa Rider
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You are so friggin glib in absence of any information. You do NOT know how things will play out. Only loser is Saddam and his henchman? What about the kids who ARE going to get killed. You were so outraged by Smart, and yet you gloss over the pain and suffering of these children. Even IF the AVERAGE Iraqi is better off, of which I am not so certain as you seem to be, there are going to be a lot of dead kids. Fsck what Saddam did, you are promoting death to someone who would not have otherwise felt it yet. At least have the good grace to appear abashed. These people are just a source of thread topics for you for your own purposes.
You don't know how things will play out, either. Who says any kids will be killed? You? Why? You think we're just going to carpet bomb Baghdad, and level the whole place, regardless of casualties?
How many kids were killed last time? Not many.
The Iraq army will give up quickly this time, just like last time. If there are any civilian casualties, the blood will be on their hands, not ours. We will bomb military targets only.........and all the civilians there know where those are, so they likewise know to get themselves and their children away.
Let me get this straight, you think that this is the only reason that we're going to war? First of all I seriously doubt the authenticity of those death figures. Second of all, if this was the only reason that we were going to war then I don't see why we waited so long. Third of all, since when was our mission to free the spiritless and oppresed of all other nations, if this is now the case then we have a whole lot of work to do.
Regardless of which, when all of the points are added up, its time for Saddam to go, and I mean fast (as it should have been done in the first place). It really doesn't matter that he doesn't have WMD now, nor does it really matter that he abuses his own civilians. When all is said and done, what matters is that he is a US hating psycho who wants WMD so he can thwack us with them, and he most likely wouldn't care of the consequences of doing so. Its clear that Saddam thinks of himself as God, Allah, or whatever, but he isn't and its about time someone reminded him of his own mortality.
I know nothing? Funny, considering the wealth of information I've posted over the past 6 months on the subject.
The UN is not a world government, each nation on Earth is a soverign power.
Lets say we put the second resolution up for a vote and it gets vetoed, or doesn't pass. Then we go to war anyway. What is the UN going to do about it, file a formal complaint?
As long as the 250,000 soldiers out in the desert belong to the United States and not the United Nations, it will be the United States that is in charge.
When it comes right down to it, he with the biggest stick makes the rules. That is not politicaly correct to say, but it is indeed the truth.
True, but without military forces of their own, the most the UN Security Council can do is declare a state in violation of the UN.
Without member states being willing to go to war over it, nothing happens.
What about that statement is factually incorrect?
LOL! Calling me an idiot is a cheap way out of not having to deal with my points.
Disagree with me, argue with me, fine... But I doubt most even minded people here would call me stupid. I'm far from stupid, just firm in my convictions.
I have said it before, Europe should stop whining and complaining, they should do with their military what they did with the Euro. Form a common EU military on par with the military forces of the United States.
What they have now is 15 seperate self-defense forces that can't do squat. They have enough money and resources that if they combine it all, they could have a powerful, world-class military.
You don't have to like it, but the reality is, without a powerful military, Europe will always play second fiddle to the United States.
LOL! Calling me poorly read is comical... I'm one of the most well read people on these forums, I'm an avid study of history, I eat this stuff up.
Sorry, but you are wrong. WWII remains the most important contribution to the world the United States has ever made. That was done with military force, not with diplomacy.
War has resolved many problems thoughout history. It can be an effective tool if used properly.
: ) Hopper
And then people wonder why everybody hates us...
Your idea is good and all until people start strapping bombs to their chest and blowing up civilans to get their point accross. People don't respond well to being oppressed for too long
I know that Iraq will never know peace and security as long as Saddam is there.
We remove him, Iraq has a chance. We leave him, all the Iraqi people are doomed.
There is no where to go for them but up from here...
At least they will have died for a cause, they will have died for their country. A few will die so the rest may have freedom. That is a worthy cause, something worth fighting for.
Yes, I still am... but what happened to her was without point, it was a useless harm to a child.
The harm we will do to a few hundred or perhaps even a few thousand children in Iraq serves a purpose, freeing 25 million Iraqi people. It is worth killing a few thousand to free 25 million.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to do it without killing anyone. Maybe Saddam will walk out and go to Libya. Then those children can live.
I don't think Saddam will go willingly however.
: ) Hopper
No, you prove yours...
That is a letter TO Clinton, not from him...
It was signed by a number of people who were trying to push Clinton into getting tough with Iraq...
I don't get George W. Bush's signature at the bottom, do you? Find one of those with his signature on the bottom and I'll be interested.
: ) Hopper
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