No More 'understanding or sympathy for Hamas' !

[syzygy]

hamas says they will not accept a ceasefirel

surprise, surprise. its those evil israels fault

they must exercise a telepathic grip on the mysterious hamas
leadership.

this same hamas leadership which seems to multiply like rabbits has decided they will stand within their own
comfy circle of hell and continue their destructive ways.

now if abbas has the cahones to put his 30,000+ 'police force' to proper use, he'd exterminate those animals - or
at least arrest them, bury them in a very deep hole, etc.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: syzygy
hamas says they will not accept a ceasefirel

surprise, surprise. its those evil israels fault

they must exercise a telepathic grip on the mysterious hamas
leadership.

this same hamas leadership which seems to multiply like rabbits has decided they will stand within their own
comfy circle of hell and continue their destructive ways.

now if abbas has the cahones to put his 30,000+ 'police force' to proper use, he'd exterminate those animals - or
at least arrest them, bury them in a very deep hole, etc.

animals??? How dare you!?!





they are just misunderstood victims of Israel and in need of a hug

 

[sMiLeYz]

Great let's get those bastards.

Now if only the Israelis could kill the hamas without killing children or civilians that would be dandy.

 

[sMiLeYz]

oops

 

[syzygy]

Now if only the Israelis could kill the hamas without killing children or civilians that would be dandy.

that is the cruel dilemma. the isrealis can't do this. they are put in a difficult bind of bad cop to enforce basic
rules of behavior that fall under the domain of the palestinian authority. if the p.a. wishes to distinguish itself
from hamas they need to enforce the law, assume moral responsibility, stop with the excuse-mongering, and
behave like the leaders the voter's mandate declares them to be. very simple.

nobody elected hamas. they're self-appointed arbiters of death who exercise carte blanche over the whole of
isreal, from the poorest denizen of nablus whom they can lynch if they 'judge' him to be a isreali spy to any
citizen, arab or jew, of isreal proper, who they can blast into smithereens as an honest political statement.

the one aspect of hamas i respect is there consistancy. they drafted a covenant in 1988 which they have followed
to the letter ever since. their covenant is a wierd mix of quranic orthodoxy and secular nationalism, with a touch
of the taliban's 'scientific materlialism' when it declares they are seeking a return to the original muslim community.

from the hamas covenant:

Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the
Islamic Resistance Movement. Abusing any part of Palestine is abuse directed against part of religion. Nationalism of the
Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its religion. Its members have been fed on that. For the sake of hoisting the banner
of Allah over their homeland they fight. "Allah will be prominent, but most people do not know."

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind
stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the
Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by
al-Bukhari and Moslem).

The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem
generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given
up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents,
neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic
Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who could claim to have the right to
represent Moslem generations till Judgement Day?

 

[Czar]

In a further setback, the Israeli foreign minister, Silvan Shalom, today rejected the idea of a deal with Hamas, saying Palestinian security forces must first dismantle militias, as required by the US-backed roadmap to Palestinian statehood by 2005.

Mr Shalom said a truce would simply allow militant groups to recover from Israeli strikes. "We can't accept this," he told Israel Radio.

whoops, neither does Israel

 

[syzygy]

whoops, neither does Israel

no ? an isreali defense minister asks the palestinian 'authority' to exercise a little authority and that amounts to you
as isreal saying 'no' to any deals with hamas ? utterly senseless.

if only you'd be consistent and extend this charitable equivocation to the u.s., or the isreali side, or any side that the
dear left screams bloody murder over.

hamas is a creature bred and nurtured by radical palestinians who have employed the cover of arafat's own history to
lend some historical legitimacy to their program. abbas can overcome arafat's hypocrisy if he clamps down on his own
elements. arafat tried talking to hamas. they went no where. abbas simply cannot afford to make the same mistakes,
as much as you may like him to.

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: Czar

In a further setback, the Israeli foreign minister, Silvan Shalom, today rejected the idea of a deal with Hamas, saying Palestinian security forces must first dismantle militias, as required by the US-backed roadmap to Palestinian statehood by 2005.

Mr Shalom said a truce would simply allow militant groups to recover from Israeli strikes. "We can't accept this," he told Israel Radio.

whoops, neither does Israel

Czar, are all Palestinians terrorists and a member of Hamas?

Doesn't the Israeli foreign ministers words leave open the very real possibility of a truce with the Palestinians?

 

[syzygy]

Doesn't the Israeli foreign ministers words leave open the very real possibility of a truce with the Palestinians?

Czar, are all Palestinians terrorists and a member of Hamas?

let moi help . . . yes and then no.

now, another question would be, if you (and your ilk) so love the palestinians, and kvetch about their plight under the thumb
of the us/isreali war machine, why do you condemn them all to such a miserable life because of the behavior of a lawless
few ?

don't you care about the law ? or is there some bizarre amoral sociological justification that explains away hamas' moral responsibility
while allowing the rest of the palestinians to suffer righteously ? none of this makes a lick of sense, but hey i'm groping in the dark
here.

 

[Czar]

lets make this simple

Hamas says no, we wont make truce with Israel, you guys have a fit.
Israel says no, we wont make truce with Hamas, you guys see that as perfectly normal.

And to make this even more simple. If Israel continues going after Hamas members with collateral damage as high as it has been so far, does anyone actually think the peace process can go on? What peace is there if Israel demands all Palestinians stop attacking Israel while at the same time Israel continualy attacks Palestinians?

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: syzygy

whoops, neither does Israel

no ? an isreali defense minister asks the palestinian 'authority' to exercise a little authority and that amounts to you
as isreal saying 'no' to any deals with hamas ? utterly senseless.

if only you'd be consistent and extend this charitable equivocation to the u.s., or the isreali side, or any side that the
dear left screams bloody murder over.

hamas is a creature bred and nurtured by radical palestinians who have employed the cover of arafat's own history to
lend some historical legitimacy to their program. abbas can overcome arafat's hypocrisy if he clamps down on his own
elements. arafat tried talking to hamas. they went no where. abbas simply cannot afford to make the same mistakes,
as much as you may like him to.

Well, you forgot in addition to Isreali asking the Palestinian authority to exrcise control, they also shot missiles in crowded area targeting Hamas leaders, and killed number of civilian bystanrds. Hamas and Isreal are two of the same kind. They are both good example of people who only believe in force. You can blame Hamas all you want, but without all the actions from Isreali government/settler, there won't be that many Palestinians eager to blow themselves up into pieces.

 

[syzygy]

Hamas says no, we wont make truce with Israel, you guys have a fit.

Israel says no, we wont make truce with Hamas, you guys see that as perfectly normal.

apparently, as simple as you've made it, its still too complicated for you. hamas is, to put it very, very kindly, a
non-governmental entity. capish ?

the palestinian authority is the elected government, not hamas, or islamic jihad, or their state mufti. still there ?

the isreali gov't, as the elected representative of the citizens of isreal, is obligated to negotiate international terms
with other legitimately elected governments. i hope you are still with me, 'cause . .. hamas is NOT and never will
constitute a popularly elected government. the palestinian authority, and the palestinian authority alone, has this
honor. not hamas. sorry. your beloved have zero credibility, and even less authority to negotiate anything with
other governments. heck, they can't even control themselves.

hamas is an internal cancer for the palestinian leadership and they need to be acted against. hamas has no right,
no sense, no cause, to be assuming anything other than the title of terrorists.

ofcourse, what is most pathetic about your side's stance, is the only reason you confer any legitimacy upon hamas
is due to their violence. for a side that takes such a consistently and reactionarily non-violent pose, this is very .. .
what ? . . . psychotic ? who knows.

And to make this even more simple. If Israel continues going after Hamas members with collateral damage as high
as it has been so far, does anyone actually think the peace process can go on? What peace is there if Israel demands
all Palestinians stop attacking Israel while at the same time Israel continualy attacks Palestinians?

you have a naty habit of equating terrorists with non-combatants, hamas with palestinian citizenry. is this what the
left would term a 'back-handed complement' ?

 

[syzygy]

Well, you forgot in addition to Isreali asking the Palestinian authority to exrcise control, they also shot missiles in
crowded area targeting Hamas leaders, and killed number of civilian bystanrds. Hamas and Isreal are two of the same
kind. They are both good example of people who only believe in force. You can blame Hamas all you want, but without
all the actions from Isreali government/settler, there won't be that many Palestinians eager to blow themselves up into
pieces.

well, those decisions amount to an unforgiving 'damed if you do and damned if you don't' scenario.

the only endgame possible is the one waiting to be implemented by the palestinian leadership. they are the ones who
should be lobbing grenades or shooting rockets at these militants, as the situation dictates, not isreal. but since the p.a.
allows these subhumans to roam about to work on their tans, isreal has to act and make the impossible decision - from the
public relations perspective - of striking at the leadership who are calculatingly holed up in their private residences. in fact,
it bespeaks of hamas' own moral depravity and plays on their own implied regard for isreal's moral concern that they would
gamble against wanton isreal counterattacks for fear of mass civilian casualties.

and besides, your moral equation above, is ridiculous.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: syzygy
hamas says they will not accept a ceasefirel

surprise, surprise. its those evil israels fault

they must exercise a telepathic grip on the mysterious hamas
leadership.

this same hamas leadership which seems to multiply like rabbits has decided they will stand within their own
comfy circle of hell and continue their destructive ways.

now if abbas has the cahones to put his 30,000+ 'police force' to proper use, he'd exterminate those animals - or
at least arrest them, bury them in a very deep hole, etc.

animals??? How dare you!?!





they are just misunderstood victims of Israel and in need of a hug

hug a suicide bomber today and recieve a free ham or turkey, your choice, hurry, offer ends soon......

 

[rchiu]

well, those decisions amount to an unforgiving 'damed if you do and damned if you don't' scenario.

the only endgame possible is the one waiting to be implemented by the palestinian leadership. they are the ones who
should be lobbing grenades or shooting rockets at these militants, as the situation dictates, not isreal. but since the p.a.
allows these subhumans to roam about to work on their tans, isreal has to act and make the impossible decision - from the
public relations perspective - of striking at the leadership who are calculatingly holed up in their private residences. in fact,
it bespeaks of hamas' own moral depravity and plays on their own implied regard for isreal's moral concern that they would
gamble against wanton isreal counterattacks for fear of mass civilian casualties.

and besides, your moral equation above, is ridiculous.

I am not passing judgment on which side is moral, I am simply stating facts on actions and reactions. If Israeli expects peace, they have to take restrains on their part first, not because it is the right thing to do, but that?s the only way to stop the cycle of violence. Their aggressiveness only gives Hamas ammunition. How does Abbas tell his people to lay down the weapon, and give up fighting when Israel keeps on killing Palestinian and expanding their settlement. Even if he wants peace, Palestinian people is gonna think of him as traitor who only have foreigner's interest in mind. You can talk about who is moral who is not, does Palestinian people care what you think? They will do what they think is right and fight for their own survival. So unless Israeli understand that and work out compromise with them, there is no stopping the violence. Hamas is a problem, but if majority of Palestinian agree on the compromise, soon or later, Hamas will loose their influence. No one wants to kill himself if he has a decent life you know.

 

[railer]

You make sense rchiu.


syzygy, why is everything about us vs them with you? "the left" , "liberals", "your ilk", etc. etc.

I, like most intelligent people, am far too smart to lump myself into a little narrow minded group. I'm niether liberal or conservative, left-leaning or right-leaning. You should try to be the same. A lack of bias is a good thing, most of the time.

 

[Alistar7]

I agree, the PA has little control over the areas because Israel will not allow them to, yet have no problem criticizing their lack of efforts. Whether it is fair or not, Israel must stop retaliating, especially so carelessly. Hamas is not going to get as much support if Israel stops retaliating and focuses on the road map, giving back settlements, etc..

We (the US of course, since everyone wants to complain about us anyway, until trouble starts, then they want to criticize us for not acting sooner) should tell Hamas, one more attack and there will be no Palestine, ever, not only that, we will use every ounce of power the US military has to wipe the Earth of your people. Then send a memo to Israel, give back every inch of land you have taken that was not rightfully decreed to you. If you do not or if you attack another Palestinian neighborhood we will use the full force of the US military to make sure Israel disappears. I have had it with both sides, but especially Israel and Sharon.


a different approach, turn every "holy" site into a huge crater nd let them fight over the dust that's left.....

 

[syzygy]

Their aggressiveness only gives Hamas ammunition. How does Abbas tell his people to lay down the
weapon, and give up fighting when Israel keeps on killing Palestinian and expanding their settlement

i disagree based on the hamas covenant. the covenant is a statement of war to reconquer land that had been
taken from the muslim polity by zionists. hamas doesn't need any 'ammunition'. they will attack and attack
with or without isreali provocation because they have undertaken an offensive military campaign against the
state of isreal. they do not discriminate between civilian, political, or military targets. read their covenant.

abbas needs to reacquaint himself with this document and not commit the same grave oversights the europeans
did with hitler. he needs to treat these groups with the utmost severity and act to destroy them.