No medical use for marijuana in USA

[BoomerD]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-pot-drivers-20110703,0,3288424.story

In California alone, nearly 1,000 deaths and injuries each year are blamed directly on drugged drivers, according to CHP data, and law enforcement puts much of the blame on the rapid growth of medical marijuana use in the last decade. Fatalities in crashes where drugs were the primary cause and alcohol was not involved jumped 55% over the 10 years ending in 2009.

"Marijuana is a significant and important contributing factor in a growing number of fatal accidents," said Gil Kerlikowske, director of National Drug Control Policy in the White House and former Seattle police chief. "There is no question, not only from the data but from what I have heard in my career as a law enforcement officer."

The issue is compounded by the lack of a national standard on the amount of the drug that drivers should be allowed to have in their blood. While 13 states have adopted zero-tolerance laws, 35 states including California have no formal standard, and instead rely on the judgment of police to determine impairment.

Even the most cautious approach of zero tolerance is fraught with complex medical issues about whether residual low levels of marijuana can impair a driver days after the drug is smoked. Marijuana advocates say some state and federal officials are trying to make it impossible for individuals to use marijuana and drive legally for days or weeks afterward.

Federal scientists envision a day when police could quickly swab saliva from drivers' mouths and determine whether they have an illegal level of marijuana, but that will require years of research. Until then, police are in the same position they were with drunk driving in the 1950s, basing arrests on their professional judgment of each driver's behavior and vital signs.

If police suspect a driver is stoned, they now administer a lengthy 12-point examination. The driver must walk a straight line and stand on one leg, estimate the passage of 30 seconds and have pupils, blood pressure and pulse checked.

I personally support Medical Marijuana rights, and I've advocated for years that it be legalized, taxed, and sold in controlled venues such as liquor stores...but also recognize that there needs to be a more accurate testing regimen that can discriminate between the joint someone smoked last weekend in the comfort and safety of their home, and the joint they smoked 10 minutes ago while driving down the freeway.

Driving while impaired is driving while impaired...doesn't really matter too much whether it's pot, liquor, or prescription drugs...and should not be tolerated.

 

[TakeNoPrisoners]

Well thats not a suprise whatsoever.

 

[Brigandier]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-pot-drivers-20110703,0,3288424.story



I personally support Medical Marijuana rights, and I've advocated for years that it be legalized, taxed, and sold in controlled venues such as liquor stores...but also recognize that there needs to be a more accurate testing regimen that can discriminate between the joint someone smoked last weekend in the comfort and safety of their home, and the joint they smoked 10 minutes ago while driving down the freeway.

Driving while impaired is driving while impaired...doesn't really matter too much whether it's pot, liquor, or prescription drugs...and should not be tolerated.

How about stiffening the penalties of those guilty of property/person damage while driving under the influence, regardless of what substance. Any intoxicating prescription will have a warning on it not to drive, or operate heavy machinery. Stiffen those penalties, and legalize pot. Also, if someone has recently smoked pot, you can tell, it's on the breath, and on their clothes. I don't see how it'd be any harder getting a blood test for impaired driving with pot as opposed to alcohol, the requirements for probable cause are one in the same.

The funny thing about impaired driving is that 90% of pot heads will go 5 mph below the speed limit and act like a grandma driving, drunk drivers not so much.

 

[BoomerD]

How about stiffening the penalties of those guilty of property/person damage while driving under the influence, regardless of what substance. Any intoxicating prescription will have a warning on it not to drive, or operate heavy machinery. Stiffen those penalties, and legalize pot. Also, if someone has recently smoked pot, you can tell, it's on the breath, and on their clothes. I don't see how it'd be any harder getting a blood test for impaired driving with pot as opposed to alcohol, the requirements for probable cause are one in the same.

The funny thing about impaired driving is that 90% of pot heads will go 5 mph below the speed limit and act like a grandma driving, drunk drivers not so much.

I've noticed the same 5-10 MPH reduction with pot smokers myself...

The big problem right now, as I said earlier, is determining how recently a person smoked pot. Alcohol levels decrease rather quickly once a person stops drinking...and are nearly undetectable in 24 hours. Not the case with marijuana. It remains at detectable levels for up to 30 days with a simple urine test...and much longer with a blood test.

Do you set the limit at xyz ng/mL of cannabanoids in the blood stream...which might catch someone who smoked heavily two weeks ago, or might catch the guy who had a couple of tokes an hour ago?

As discussed in the article I posted, they're supposed to be working on a simple saliva swab for a quick test...Legalization requires a better means of testing for DUI enforcement.

 

[Brigandier]

I've noticed the same 5-10 MPH reduction with pot smokers myself...

The big problem right now, as I said earlier, is determining how recently a person smoked pot. Alcohol levels decrease rather quickly once a person stops drinking...and are nearly undetectable in 24 hours. Not the case with marijuana. It remains at detectable levels for up to 30 days with a simple urine test...and much longer with a blood test.

Do you set the limit at xyz ng/mL of cannabanoids in the blood stream...which might catch someone who smoked heavily two weeks ago, or might catch the guy who had a couple of tokes an hour ago?

As discussed in the article I posted, they're supposed to be working on a simple saliva swab for a quick test...Legalization requires a better means of testing for DUI enforcement.

I agree with that, but the simple methods police catch DUI drivers with, can still be applied with pot smokers. If these people were smoking recently, they will smell like it. Along with field sobriety tests, this can catch the dangerous offenders.

I eagerly await the day a simple test can be administered, because, as you said, that is the biggest hurdle. I don't drive while influenced, and welcome a world where others don't as well. The simple test is the biggest hurdle MJ faces to getting legalized, and I hope that is leaped soon.

 

[BoomerD]

I agree with that, but the simple methods police catch DUI drivers with, can still be applied with pot smokers. If these people were smoking recently, they will smell like it. Along with field sobriety tests, this can catch the dangerous offenders.

I eagerly await the day a simple test can be administered, because, as you said, that is the biggest hurdle. I don't drive while influenced, and welcome a world where others don't as well. The simple test is the biggest hurdle MJ faces to getting legalized, and I hope that is leaped soon.

Unfortunately, with medical marijuana being dosed in ways other than smoking, (brownies, edibles, etc.) just basing the need for testing on the smell isn't going to catch all of the drugged drivers.

 

[Brigandier]

Unfortunately, with medical marijuana being dosed in ways other than smoking, (brownies, edibles, etc.) just basing the need for testing on the smell isn't going to catch all of the drugged drivers.

I guess that's true, but I personally support that anyone involved in an accident be administered a sobriety test, either field or blood, depending upon the severity of the accident, and if substances are found, that is to be taken into account.

I'd even be draconian enough, if the scanners were advanced enough, to administer the test on site to any traffic offense where sobriety was in doubt.

 

[edro]

Whatever. Give it another 10-20 years for our generation to age and take over office...

Right. It's only a matter of time... just like gay marriage.

 

[BudAshes]

Saying weed is going to kill people on the road therefore it should be illegal is ridiculous. Many prescription drugs are a lot worse. So outlaw those too?

 

[BoomerD]

Saying weed is going to kill people on the road therefore it should be illegal is ridiculous. Many prescription drugs are a lot worse. So outlaw those too?

It's already illegal to drive while under the influence of many prescription drugs...

 

[BudAshes]

It's already illegal to drive while under the influence of many prescription drugs...

Yeah and it would be illegal to drive while high... so...

 

[BoomerD]

Yeah and it would be illegal to drive while high... so...

so...what?

Marijuana is already illegal. Possession of prescription drugs by anyone other than the person for whom they were prescribed is illegal...

I still contend that IF the "powers that be" can devise a good, accurate, inexpensive means of testing for marijuana that will discriminate between recent use and past use...I'd support legalization.

I don't smoke the stuff, and AFAIK, I only know a couple of people who do...but don't associate with either of them. (both are family members too)

I think legalizing it, taxing it heavily, (just not so heavily that it's cheaper to buy it from the guy on the corner) and controlling its sale and use is a good thing. It would take a LOT of money out of the hands of the criminal element, prevent the waste of public funds for prosecution and jailing of simple pot users, and the added tax revenue would be a great help for various government entities.

 

[Pliablemoose]

LOL @ the medical use of pot, it's flipping useless for anything, when was the last time a hallucinogen was an effective therapy? The only thing I know of is ketamine, and it's used in anesthesia.

Personally, I think the stuff should be legalized and drop the "medical" BS.

Right now, the states are enjoying being out of the spotlight of the DEA, that will only last as long as the current Fed admin is in power. Obama had hinted he push for legalization then chickened out, and instead has told the DEA to back off of the medical programs in the various states.

 

[BoomerD]

LOL @ the medical use of pot, it's flipping useless for anything, when was the last time a hallucinogen was an effective therapy? The only thing I know of is ketamine, and it's used in anesthesia.

Personally, I think the stuff should be legalized and drop the "medical" BS.

Right now, the states are enjoying being out of the spotlight of the DEA, that will only last as long as the current Fed admin is in power. Obama had hinted he push for legalization then chickened out, and instead has told the DEA to back off of the medical programs in the various states.

Once we get another "conservative" in the White House, I suspect that will change. We'll go back to heavy enforcement by the feds like we had under Bush.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

Do you realize that the drug-addled hippies from the 60s are in power now? Do you really think our generation is less "pro legal drugs" than theirs was in their youth?

But the same hippies which also experienced the crack cocaine 80s. I don't think our general is less pro legal, I just think our generation doesn't care as much.

 

[hans030390]

LOL @ the medical use of pot, it's flipping useless for anything, when was the last time a hallucinogen was an effective therapy? The only thing I know of is ketamine, and it's used in anesthesia.

LSD and mushrooms have been shown to help with cluster headaches and migraines. Marijuana greatly helps with depression, insomnia, anxiety, lack of appetite, etc. I have a close friend that has made great progress with his depression and insomnia with marijuana. Plus, you know...it's fun, can be relaxing, can be "deep" and offer profound experiences, etc. Psychedelics have a lot of great things to offer, and marijuana in particular seems to be a do-it-all drug (for medicinal AND recreational purposes) with relatively few (if any) negative side effects.

I can also vouch that psychedelics in general can greatly improve one's life (mentally, "spiritually", etc.). Sure, you have stereotypical druggies, but you have stereotypes for people involved in all sorts of lifestyles and activities. Most people that have done psychedelics are more open minded, caring, understanding, and happy than those that have not, in my experience.

Yeah, perhaps there's a trend that psychedelic users have some quirks (though this, again, can be a stereotype), but what's so good about being completely normal and completely sane? As Alan Watts said, "No one is more dangerously insane than one who is sane all the time; he is like a steel bridge without flexibility, and the order of his life is rigid and brittle."

As for the topic of driving under the influence, I don't believe anyone should be driving while impaired in ANY way. Granted, driving while high is considerably safer than driving while drunk. I believe NORML had a good article on this and studies behind it. Still, neither is truly safe. It's funny that when people read articles about marijuana and driving, they think about how "bad" marijuana is and how it should remain illegal. It's as if people have forgotten how much worse alcohol is on the road, even though it's constantly an issue.

 

[Beev]

Marijuana greatly helps with depression

I can personally vouch for this one, as it definitely helped me many, many moons ago when I tried it for that specific reason. If there were a medicinal system in place here in Kansas I would be a part of it.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Change we can believe in.

http://www.gazette.com/articles/promises-117589-campaign-marijuana.html

“The Justice Department going after sick individuals using [marijuana] as a palliative instead of going after serious criminals makes no sense.” — July 21, 2007, town hall meeting in Manchester, New Hampshire

But, Obama is now only doing his job, enforcing federal law.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Zomg!!! Dangerous!! Run !!!!! The terrorists!!!!!

 

[classy]

Uncut or unmodified marijuana is less harmful than alcohol. It should be decriminalized and a licenses like a liquor license should be required for people to grow and sell it. It will require a little tighter regulation to ensure that marijuana loaded with "fillers" is not being sold by legitimated businesses.

 

[preslove]

LOL @ the medical use of pot, it's flipping useless for anything, when was the last time a hallucinogen was an effective therapy? The only thing I know of is ketamine, and it's used in anesthesia.

Personally, I think the stuff should be legalized and drop the "medical" BS.

Right now, the states are enjoying being out of the spotlight of the DEA, that will only last as long as the current Fed admin is in power. Obama had hinted he push for legalization then chickened out, and instead has told the DEA to back off of the medical programs in the various states.

Your ignorance on this point is astounding. You must be a fucking terrible nurse if you are this stupid.

 

[BudAshes]

so...what?

Marijuana is already illegal. Possession of prescription drugs by anyone other than the person for whom they were prescribed is illegal...

I still contend that IF the "powers that be" can devise a good, accurate, inexpensive means of testing for marijuana that will discriminate between recent use and past use...I'd support legalization.

I don't smoke the stuff, and AFAIK, I only know a couple of people who do...but don't associate with either of them. (both are family members too)

I think legalizing it, taxing it heavily, (just not so heavily that it's cheaper to buy it from the guy on the corner) and controlling its sale and use is a good thing. It would take a LOT of money out of the hands of the criminal element, prevent the waste of public funds for prosecution and jailing of simple pot users, and the added tax revenue would be a great help for various government entities.

I just don't understand your point. There are many legal drugs that you shouldn't drive on and are difficult to test for.

The few studies i've seen where they get people who are driving high, weed didn't really have much of a detriment on their driving. The problem is that when you combine marijuana with alcohol you become retarded, same goes with any other drug though.

As for your odd views on potheads:
I would say just about everyone I know smokes pot outside of a few people who don't enjoy the sensation. And these aren't vagrants, most of my friends are engineers/programmers, educated and making good money and doing good things. Come to california and hang for a bit and I bet your views on pot would do a 180. The stereotype that pot heads are losers that will ruin society is laughable at best. The only reason that stereotype exists is because pot is illegal therefore upstanding citizens don't use it. You ever see anyone who's living on the streets because they are addicted to pot? Nope. You ever see anyone rape someone because they smoked a joint? Nope. You ever see anyone murder someone because they got too stoned? Negative.
What you see are meth heads who use pot to come down, or presciption druggies who get high to enhance their other highs, or alcoholics who use it to burn off their hangovers. Those aren't pot heads, they are pill poppers and hard drug users. Pot is just the icing on their cake.

The only reason pot isn't legal in ca right now is because growers made a huge movement to vote down the bill. They are terrified phillip morris will move in immediately and trademark every strain of marijuana, then use their lawyers to decimate the growers that won't be able to afford the governments protection. Plus with the laws in limbo like they are now, many clubs can sell weed for ridiculously inflated prices. Right now in sanjose, ca you can open a club. The city will charge you 20k a month to be open(20k a fucking month) and people are keeping them open because they make so much money.