No luck, Athlon XP2400 with MSI K7N2

[CuriousMike]

I'm having terrible luck getting much of an overclock out of my setup.

Previously, I was running an MSI KT266 board with my XP2400 (regular thoroughbred b)and some PC2100 ram.
I ran it a FSB of 140 with good results... or so I thought.

I decided to do a partial upgrade, and purchased a new Enermax 320W powersupply, a new MSI K7N2 Nforce2 mobo, and some Kingston PC3200 Valueram (512mb stick.)

Before installing the new goodies, I ran Sandra and 3DMark 2001 just to get a baseline.
I also ran Prime95. Well, Sandra and 3DMark 2001 run fine, but Prime95 would crash ~5 minutes into it.
I've read enough to know that my system was not stable. I figured, "Heh, it must be the crummy RAM."

So, I pull out old stuff, and stuff in new stuff. Oh yeah, a new fresh format of XP was necessary (change of mobo.)

Having read other O/C reports on the web, I decided to just start the thing at 150mhz FSB.

Bad move. I couldn't get it to get load Windows. 15*150 - 2250mhz. I'd been reading other peeps having good luck up to ~2300mhz with their Xp2400's.


Let me shorten the story: Upping the CPU voltage to 1.8v, I was able to get into Windows @150fsb, and run Prime for about 30 seconds before it crapped out.

I've tried 133mhz FSB with 200mhz RAM and it ran forever (an hour).
I've tried 140mhz FSB with 210mhz RAM and it ran for about 20 minutes.
I even had some weird 133mhz with the 215-ish RAM and it ran about 30 minutes.


I use Nvidias board utility to keep the CPU temp up, and at idle, it's about 60'C.
Under full load with Prime it's about 70'C. I have a generic fan/heatsink with no thermal paste.
I just clicked it on. (Lowering the CPU voltage back to 1.7v knocked about 3'C off the above readings.)

My mobo has CPU multipliers from 8.5 up to 13, but they seem to be ignored. ( Do I have to manually mod the CPU to enable the lower multipliers ?)

Everything smells like the CPU simply does not like to run faster than it's rated speed.
A simple overclock of 100mhz ( from 133fsb to 140fsb * 15x) remains unreliable.

I have good ram. A new mobo. A good solid power supply.

The only other components in the system is a Radeon9700 and a PCI-Firewire card, 2 hard drives and a dvd burner.

Does this seem like it's the CPU ?

 

[Alex]

afaik 2400 thoroughbreds aren't great overclocking CPUs... bartons on the other hand are a bit better and athlon64's are all goodness (minus some bad crops this year)

 

[BlueWeasel]

You've got a standard XP2400 T-bred, not one of the better performing mobile chips. The XP2400 is at the end of the T-bred production and it's overclocking potential is generally low compared to the lower T-bred models like the 1700+ or 2100+ simply because the core is already 'maxed" out.

For comparison, the mobile chips run at a lower default voltage and would be able to hit 2.3Ghz easily with that board and RAM.

 

[CuriousMike]

Thanks... I guess what gave me hope was this article:
http://www.cluboverclocker.com/reviews/cpu/amd/xp2400/

If I read it right, it says my chip is actually the start of the tbred-B and should be able to clock up.

 

[BlueWeasel]

Well, those temperatures seem way too high. Typically, I don't worry if the full load temp stays under 60C, but I'd definately try adding more cooling (keep the case off with a small tabletop fan blowing directly on the board) before anything else. It may not help at all, but it's both easy and cheap to do.

I'm afraid, though, that you're just simply maxing out the chip even at 150 FSB.

 

[chilled]

Originally posted by: CuriousMike
Thanks... I guess what gave me hope was this article:
http://www.cluboverclocker.com/reviews/cpu/amd/xp2400/

If I read it right, it says my chip is actually the start of the tbred-B and should be able to clock up.

Get some thermal paste lad, it's overheating!

I also have the K7N2 - the first nforce2 version with 333Mhz FSB. I'm running a tbred B 2100+ at 2800+ 1.7V, that's 13.5 * 166 = 2250. Its a 2003, week 3 chip and I think there's definately more room left in that chip, maybe 150Mhz who knows.

Your chip is unlocked, but AFAIK you'll need to use the wire trick to change the multiplier on the board. I've done that and it does work well. Maybe try it at 13*166 or 10*200 and see how that goes.

But do get a half decent HSF and some decent thermal paste. Doesn't need to e too expensive, but you need more than what you've got now.

 

[CuriousMike]

Do you really think it's conceivable that 60-70' C is too hot ?
I've read that 70'C is still in "tolerance."

The system board sits at about 50'C.

I'll try some thermal paste first.

Thanks for the tips.

 

[sandorski]

Ya, your cpu is likely not the same Xp 2400 that others get great overclocks from. Also note that running the Memory in synch(same speed) as the FSB is the best choice.

 

[CuriousMike]

I thought there was only one version of the XP 2400+ ?
I find no mention of other cores for this part.
???

Oh: And it is my kind of luck to get the "not good one" if that's possible.

 

[Dough1397]

get thermal paste and maybe a better heatsink and fan
clean up the wirign in your case to allow for good airflow
add a front and rear case fan (exhaust/intake respectively)
use motherboard monitor

50 for the system (board) temp is way too high it really shouldnt go much above 30, you need to clear out the dust bunnies and get soem good airflow in there

 

[CuriousMike]

Here's an update.

After work, I went to Frys and bought some "Arctic Silver 5" thermal compound.

Before doing anything, I noted my temps idle and stressed (stressed = after 5 minutes of Prime 95).
Idle = 59/45 ( cpu / system )
Stress = 67/48 ( cpu / system )

I took my HSF off, and noted it was the original AMD HSF... it had had a thermal pad on it; but it looked a bit rough. It pretty much crumbled off. I cleaned up the HSF with q-tips and alcohol, did a rush job cleaning the actual "bump" on the CPU. I smeared a bit of the new stuff on. I read a thin film, so I did a thin film.

I also added a fan in the case... a simple 80mm fan. I positioned it in the front of the case, so it blows across the system heatsink and sorta might hit the CPU.

(BTW, the Enermax PS I bought has an additional fan that points directly down on the CPU).

I buttoned it back together and re-did the tests.

Idle = 54/42
Stress = 64/48

Not much of an improvement. (?)

So, I took the sidecase off, and blow a fan on it. Whoa !

Idle = 45/32
Stress = 55/34 ... and this is bumping the CPU voltage to 1.8v, and the FSB to 150mhz.

So, somehow, my case is really too hot inside. I figured the additional 80mm case fan would have really helped (at minimum) the system temp... but it really only knocked about 3deg C off.

Is the solution "throwing more fans in the case" ?

( I'm still Prime95'ing @150mhz... only about 20 minutes so far, but much farther than ever before.)

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: CuriousMike
Here's an update.

After work, I went to Frys and bought some "Arctic Silver 5" thermal compound.

Before doing anything, I noted my temps idle and stressed (stressed = after 5 minutes of Prime 95).
Idle = 59/45 ( cpu / system )
Stress = 67/48 ( cpu / system )

I took my HSF off, and noted it was the original AMD HSF... it had had a thermal pad on it; but it looked a bit rough. It pretty much crumbled off. I cleaned up the HSF with q-tips and alcohol, did a rush job cleaning the actual "bump" on the CPU. I smeared a bit of the new stuff on. I read a thin film, so I did a thin film.

I also added a fan in the case... a simple 80mm fan. I positioned it in the front of the case, so it blows across the system heatsink and sorta might hit the CPU.

(BTW, the Enermax PS I bought has an additional fan that points directly down on the CPU).

I buttoned it back together and re-did the tests.

Idle = 54/42
Stress = 64/48

Not much of an improvement. (?)

So, I took the sidecase off, and blow a fan on it. Whoa !

Idle = 45/32
Stress = 55/34 ... and this is bumping the CPU voltage to 1.8v, and the FSB to 150mhz.

So, somehow, my case is really too hot inside. I figured the additional 80mm case fan would have really helped (at minimum) the system temp... but it really only knocked about 3deg C off.

Is the solution "throwing more fans in the case" ?

( I'm still Prime95'ing @150mhz... only about 20 minutes so far, but much farther than ever before.)

Your cpu temp drop is about right for AS. Your case temps have dropped a lot! Makes me think the problem is(perhaps was) Motherboard overheating. If it keeps running I would think that was the issue for sure.

 

[CuriousMike]

OK... update. With the case off, and a small 9" room fan pointed into the case, the machine ran 8 hours of Prime at 150fsb.

I went down to local computer store and bought a pretty beefy new HSF and came home and installed it.. with more of the articsilver5 stuff i just bought.

I closed the case, removed the room fan, and fired it up. Well, fired it up seems about the right words, because the temps immediately got hot again ( the new HSF knocked a few degrees off the CPU ) and Prime95 only lasted about 5 minutes.

It's either:
a) The problem is the system chip is getting too hot. (45-48)
b) The problem is my case is suffocating everything (Since both the system chip and the CPU temps go way up with case closed and no room fan)

My case doesn't really have a good place for an exhaust fan. I'm wondering of a somewhat crappily placed 80mm exhaust fan out the back would help, and put a bigger 120mm fan in the front, pointing across the System board and the CPU would be effective ?

 

[chilled]

My chip runs nearly at 60*C with little cooling, as detected by MBM on this board.

Could you take a few pics of your PC for us please? It sounds like you have a very cramped case...

 

[CuriousMike]

I'm at work now... I'll snap a pic and upload tonight.

 

[CuriousMike]

Small update. ( I'm too lazy to send up photo's. )
I drilled many holes in the side of the case, and a few large holes in the front (along the bottom.)
120mm fan at the bottom sucking air into the case (i used some velcro and mounted it so it sorta points at the system chip and the CPU.)
I zip-tied a 80mm fan on the back ... but the back of the case doesn't have an official spot for a fan ( or official ventilation) --- the spot i found probably allows for maybe ~30% efficiency.

And I bought a little $5 fan that screwed onto the system chip.

Something else I did was just keep the memory 1:1 with the FSB; this maybe have been the problem all along ?

Now I'm running at 15*152, and full load Prime95 shows 58/45 (using Nvidias utility; MBM5 shows slightly different temps.)
I ran Prime95 for 8+ hours at this speed with no issues.

15*155 works for about 10 minutes, and the machine locked up. (I tried twice.)

I can live with knocking it back down to 152.

 

[Quentin]

I have a little experience with the XP2400+ in an ASUS A7N8X nForce2 board. At the default FSB of 133, I had high multipliers - 13 and above (because the 2400+ defaults to 133x15) but when I bumped up my FSB to 200, I couldn't get a multiplier higher than 12.5 (which was great since I needed 11 anyway).

Most 2400+s are unlocked so keep that FSB/RAM at 1:1 or 100%, up the FSB to 200 and drop the multiplier to 11. Can't remember for sure what my vCore was but I'm sure I never went over 1.7. It worked great at 2.2GHz and my highest temps were in the mid-50s. I'm sure I never hit 60. Finally went to 35 watt XP-M2200+ and temps went way down!

 

[CuriousMike]

As a side-note, you might be careful if you ever try that jumping the J5 (or whatever it is) via the wire-trick.. looping two pins with some wire making a figure 8.
That's really tricky-- a) those pins are small, b) those pins bend, c) it's damn-near impossible to get a tight loop around both pins.

 

[CuriousMike]

After thinking about it... why couldn't you just jamb wire in the socket... wouldn't that accomplish the same thing as shorting those two pins ?

 

[chilled]

Originally posted by: CuriousMike
After thinking about it... why couldn't you just jamb wire in the socket... wouldn't that accomplish the same thing as shorting those two pins ?

Yes - and that's what's preferred! Just get a small and thin piece of copper wire and put it in the socket and in the right pin connections!

OCinside.de have a great layout diagram for this.

 

[Quentin]

CuriousMike, if you get the FSB to 200/400 I don't think you're going to need the wire trick. My XP2400+ automatically dropped to the lower multipliers when I raised it to 200. At 133/266, I had 13x and above - at 200 I had 5x-12.5x, so I never had to bother.

Don't worry that the XP2400+ can't run at 200; it shouldn't be a problem at all. Plus your RAM finally will be running at its specs - DDR400/PC3200. Getting to 2.2GHz at 200 is much better than at 155!

BTW, you're right about something you said you read earlier: the XP2400+ is the "good" TBred - the first TBred-B so it does overclock better than earlier TBreds and much better than Palominos. However it does run hotter than the even better Bartons that came out later.

You can do a lot with this chip, especially if you take care of that case cooling problem. However if you can sell it for $40-50 and throw in another $50, buy an XP mobile 2600+ and really have a great top-end Socket A system.

 

[Quentin]

You know, I hate to bring this up but I don't remember you ever saying you successfully changed the multiplier from 15. Did you ever get it down to 14 or 13? Of course 12.5 and below would require the wire mod (at 133MHz, not 200).

If you're superlocked at 15x, forget about changing the multiplier in any nForce2 board. Most XP2400+ are unlocked but some were locked. When did you buy it - if the date of manufacture is after about the 39th week of 2003 it's probably locked. So if you got it Oct-Nov of 2003 or before, you're probably ok but the real proof is to change that multiplier in the BIOS to 14.5 or 14 and see if it actually changes (in CPU-Z or something like that). Might as well find out - Good luck!

 

[CuriousMike]

Wow.

I never just tried going to 200FSB... I wouldn't assume there's logic anywhere to do that. Maybe your mobo's do that for you... I've read some mobo's handle the pin-trick themself.

I have tried a lower multiplier... but I think I tried 12 or 11.5 --- the machine won't even POST when I do that.

EDIT: My mobo only shows multipliers up to 8.5-13... and AUTO.

 

[Quentin]

200MHz is your friend! Believe me or don't but I sure would be at 200x11 in a flash!

Hopefully your board will allow lower multis when you change to 200 (like mine do) but if not then do the wire trick for low ones and see for yourself!

 

[CuriousMike]

I'm looking at www.ocinside.de to see how to pin-mod in the socket.

As dumb as this sounds, I don't know if I should say I have a Thoroughbred or an Athlon XP.???

I know it's a tbred-B, but it's also an Athlon XP - and the pins they show to connect are different.