No link between Iraq and Al Quaeda? Oops?

[hungrypete]

Moonbeam has a long history of being a childish flame, ignore him. It seems alot of people like him have warped views of reality, they think everyone wants to hold hands and sing songs. Someday, hopefully not long from now, they will wake up. I suggest that some of you become more familiar with the age old game, chess. Safety isn't free, and Americans WILL do whatever we feel is necessary to maintain that safety. That IS our right. I AM one of the boys who would be fighting it, so don't give me your self righteous vomit about sending others off to die for me.

I wish you all the best of luck in living in this happy girl scout world you have created in your minds. Unfortunately, some of us have to stand up and protect reality.

 

[hungrypete]

Most elections in Iraq show that 100% of Iraqis support Saddam Hussein.

how many politicians were on that ballot?

 

[smp]

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: Jellomancer

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: Moonbeam Oh you poor, poor dear little hippie children. You must have been so traumatized hiding under your desks. Did you get a sandwich dirty in a five minute famine. I bet the polio epidemic put the terror of WMDs in your soul too. Life must have been soooo stressful for the poor miserable American people of those days. I bet the nuclear tests turned you all into little glowing Japanese children. You have suffered so much. Everybody should die so you can rest. Americans are supposed to bring anxiety to the rest of the world, not have to suffer it. I for one simply will not tolerate it. Everyone must die because I don't see any reason why I should have to grow up. There is no problem that can't be solved by some good old fashioned American violence. I learned that much watching a lifetime of TV. Don't try to tell me otherwise. I'm the toughest blowhard coward you'll ever see.

Hey Moonie....you seem to hate this country so much why don't you pack your bags and move somewhere else. Make sure and let us know how that goes ok? I'm sure everywhere else in the world will be just as tolerant of your wacked out views as the weirdos in San Fran are. By the way....has the city paid for your sex change operation yet?

Picture what the US would be like if everyone that your kind said hated this country left. Actually, you would probably like not having to deal with those inferior black people in your whites only places right? You make stupid assumptions, I make stupid assumptions. Like that? Let's attack another nation because we feel that they could possibly have "weapons of mass destruction" in the future, justifying it with ludicrous accusations of al Qaeda links, and criticisms of atrocities that we supported in the past.

Ok...first off I'm not a racist in any way shape or form. Thanks for trying to make that link though, it really makes you look like the fool you are. Secondly we are not going after Iraq just because they have WMD. We are going after them because they are a threat to the region, a threat to us, and they support terrorism. You can chose to ignore those things but the people in charge of this country cannot or should not.

I still don't get how you're so sure of these things? Oh yeah wait, because it was repeated a million times on TV .. that makes it true, right. For such a tough talking, freedom fighting guy you sure are gullible.

 

[smp]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Jellomancer By the way, who actually read the article? It looks like not many...

Obviously shinerburke didn't. He's content to believe whatever the government tells him because he loves government and spits on the grave of our founding fathers who warned of immoral actions such as this.

You want to bring the Founding Fathers into this? Fine but I suggest you do a bit more reading than just finding one quote by Thomas Jefferson. Let me give you a good place to start.....do some reading about how Jefferson dealt with the Barbary Pirates.

Completely different, the barbary pirates held americans captive, they were the instigator. In our case, we were the instigator during the Iran/Iraq war when we propped up Saddam and played both sides of the fence with both countries, and then later we decided that 'we didn't like him' anymore when saddam invaded Kuwait. Jefferson's quote making more sense to you now? Or do i have to draw a picture.

Persian gulf didn't happen for the sake of the kurds ... if it did the U.S would have gone to war with Turkey a long time ago .. oh but wait, turkey is a huge importer of american weapons .. dead Kurds are okay, so long as they were killed with U.S bought weopons.

 

[markuskidd]

Originally posted by: hungrypete

Most elections in Iraq show that 100% of Iraqis support Saddam Hussein.

how many politicians were on that ballot?

What's more (IMO) useful are not the ballots but the polls. From what I've seen (on CNN, anyway......)
Two choices:

Do you support Saddam Hussein?

1. Yes
2. No

There is a lot of information available on what constraints were placed on the polling, whether/how much the Iraqi government seemed to be interfering, etc if you're interested.

edited for clarity

 

[Moonbeam]

A happy girl scout world is what you fantasize other people think reality is when your reality is the inside of your own ass.

 

[hungrypete]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
A happy girl scout world is what you fantasize other people think reality is when your reality is the inside of your own ass.

an intelligent and thought provoking reply as always moonie

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Uh huh and you're trying to compare this to polling in the United States why? I don't remember anyone from CNN or AP coming to my house and holding a gun to my head while they asked me questions.

I didn't say the similarity was literal. Patriotism works much better than a gun.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: smp

I still don't get how you're so sure of these things? Oh yeah wait, because it was repeated a million times on TV .. that makes it true, right. For such a tough talking, freedom fighting guy you sure are gullible.

Threat to the region - War with Iran, invaded Kuwait, if we hadn't been there they would have gone after Saudi. They are building WMD and are seeking nukes. I'm sure they aren't going after that technology just so they have a faster way to roast goats.

Threat to us - Have supported terrorism and harbored terrorists. Openly support groups such as the Islamic Jihad, etc... and make payments to the families of suicide bombers.

Gullible? No, just willing to see things for what they are and not be clouded by hatred because I may or may not like who is President. I was all for taking out Iraq back in 1998 when Clinton was President and thought there was a need to do so.

 

[Czar]

shinerburke,
You do know that one of the most important factor to make democracy work is for people do criticize their own leaders. One example of people following their leader blindly, beliving every word is when Mao ruled China, you dont want that to happen to the US do you? that is what will happen if everyone who disagrees with actions taken by the goverment moves to another country.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: shinerburke
Threat to the region - War with Iran, invaded Kuwait, if we hadn't been there they would have gone after Saudi. They are building WMD and are seeking nukes. I'm sure they aren't going after that technology just so they have a faster way to roast goats.

War with Iran, a war the US openly supported and financed. Invaded Kuwait, well thats true, nothing to say. They wouldnt have gone after they Saudi because Kuwait is one of the most dense oil reserves in the region, easy to take and little risk, thought at least
Who says that they are building WMD? Who says they are seeking nukes?
Having nukes is mostly just a political leverage, its not something you use.

Threat to us - Have supported terrorism and harbored terrorists. Openly support groups such as the Islamic Jihad, etc... and make payments to the families of suicide bombers.

They support Palestinian terrorists, or "freedom fighters" in their eyes. Saddam has been fighting terrorism for years in his own country. And now, there is NO link between Saddam and Bin Laden, which is not surprising because Saddam fought religous fundalists to get to power and has been fighting those to stay in power, not likely to support one.

 

[smp]

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: smp I still don't get how you're so sure of these things? Oh yeah wait, because it was repeated a million times on TV .. that makes it true, right. For such a tough talking, freedom fighting guy you sure are gullible.

Threat to the region - War with Iran, invaded Kuwait, if we hadn't been there they would have gone after Saudi. They are building WMD and are seeking nukes. I'm sure they aren't going after that technology just so they have a faster way to roast goats. Threat to us - Have supported terrorism and harbored terrorists. Openly support groups such as the Islamic Jihad, etc... and make payments to the families of suicide bombers. Gullible? No, just willing to see things for what they are and not be clouded by hatred because I may or may not like who is President. I was all for taking out Iraq back in 1998 when Clinton was President and thought there was a need to do so.

again how do you know this stuff? What makes you so sure that they are building WDM and nukes? What makes you so sure that they support terrorists .. people just keep saying that in passing as if there has been a court ruling on it or something.

 

[hungrypete]

that's right folks, in all those factories he won't allow the inspectors near.... they are really just girl scout cookie factories!

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: hungrypete
that's right folks, in all those factories he won't allow the inspectors near.... they are really just girl scout cookie factories!

thats actually the palaces where saddam keeps is pr0n collection and he doesnt want anyone seeing that

 

[JoeBaD]

You morons are still arguing this.

Let's see

Iraq invades Kuwait
US kicks Iraq's arse
Iraq agrees to weapons inspectors
Iraq changes mind on weapons inspectors
Iraq in violation of surrender terms

What more is there?

Oh, silly me, it seems to be the same morons who still think Bush stole the election.

 

[UltraQuiet]

again how do you know this stuff? What makes you so sure that they are building WDM and nukes?

Look at the reports of the weapons inspectors when they left there in 1998 and draw your own conclusions.

 

[Moonbeam]

an intelligent and thought provoking reply as always moonie
-----------------

It should be, hungrypete; It was modeled on your own.

hungrypete has a long history of being a childish flame, ignore him. It seems a lot of people like him have warped views of reality, they think everyone wants to kill people and shoot guns. Someday, hopefully not long from now, they will wake up. I suggest that some of you become more familiar with the age old game, chess. Safety isn't possible, but Americans FOOLS WILL do whatever we feel is necessary to maintain that the illusion of that safety. That IS the right we arrogate to ourselves in our blind corruption by power, our might is right. I AM one of the boys who would be fighting to keep you from taking others to their death out of blind unquestioning and upside down patriotism, so don't give me your vomit about your right to mass suicide.

I have been all too often in the graveyards of white stones stretching as far as the eye can see. You are a tool I will not use, not so Bush can win his first Presidential election, not so people don't think about the economy, not because Bush is a psycho who thinks he's called by God, not so Bushes buddies can get rich on oil, not for some right winged nut case dream of American world hegemony, not because Aunt Martha or shinerburke can't sleep at night, not for Israel, not for the fantasy of WMDs that are all over the world, and not for any other confused, unclear, but obvious pretext to attack Iraq that the jokers in the Administration cook up to panic Americans into another insane war. The evidence that Bush is doing a number on America is vastly more obvious than the evidence that Iraq requires a complete overhaul in American foreign policy that has for years and years striven to bring a respect for international law into the world, and not the law that might makes right.

In my opinion you are a child that can be jerked around by your testicles. You're all testosterone and no brains. You're tough and stupid. Try to be more responsible. Pick a war that's just and real. Don't let some politician waste your life and the lives of others without knowing what is really going on. Everything points to the fact that Bushes BS is trumped up garbage. I for one, however, have not reached the conclusion that he is indeed playing a very good game of chess. He has done will so far. He's got the UN off their ass, the congress to vote, and squeezed Saddam into reaction. If he can get effective sanctions and credible inspections without conditions and avoid war it will be a triumph in diplomacy. If he attacks unilaterally it will, to my mind, be a catastrophe. Time will tell.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: Czar
shinerburke,
You do know that one of the most important factor to make democracy work is for people do criticize their own leaders. One example of people following their leader blindly, beliving every word is when Mao ruled China, you dont want that to happen to the US do you? that is what will happen if everyone who disagrees with actions taken by the goverment moves to another country.

I'm not saying we should blindly follow our leaders, only a fool does that. What I am saying is given the evidence of Iraq's actions in the past, it's actions in the present, and it's ability to willingly use poison gas against it's own citizens clearly point out that Iraq is a rouge nation. Those who cannot see it are either blind or are either being blinded by their political hatred for the current administration.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: smp

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: smp I still don't get how you're so sure of these things? Oh yeah wait, because it was repeated a million times on TV .. that makes it true, right. For such a tough talking, freedom fighting guy you sure are gullible.

Threat to the region - War with Iran, invaded Kuwait, if we hadn't been there they would have gone after Saudi. They are building WMD and are seeking nukes. I'm sure they aren't going after that technology just so they have a faster way to roast goats. Threat to us - Have supported terrorism and harbored terrorists. Openly support groups such as the Islamic Jihad, etc... and make payments to the families of suicide bombers. Gullible? No, just willing to see things for what they are and not be clouded by hatred because I may or may not like who is President. I was all for taking out Iraq back in 1998 when Clinton was President and thought there was a need to do so.

again how do you know this stuff? What makes you so sure that they are building WDM and nukes? What makes you so sure that they support terrorists .. people just keep saying that in passing as if there has been a court ruling on it or something.

We don't need a court ruling. We have thousands of Iraqi citizens who have been gassed because they opposed Saddam. WE have weapons inspectors that saw proof of Iraq's WMD program. There is also proof that Iraq has made payments to the suicide bombers and celebrate their actions. Do they support them because they are "Freedom Fighters?" No, they support them because it's a way to indirectly attack Israel.

 

[Moonbeam]

The issue isn't whether or not Saddam is or isn't a nice guy and it isn't about WMD. It's about what is different now that wasn't true yesterday. Why the big need for war and rumors of war at this time. The tremendous political expediency for Bush with the Iraqi issue is just too obvious to pass by without note. There isn't a war monger among you who wasn't screaming wag the dog when Clinton bombed and it looks like the baby food factory had the precursor chemicals to nerve gas after all.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: Jellomancer

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Uh huh and you're trying to compare this to polling in the United States why? I don't remember anyone from CNN or AP coming to my house and holding a gun to my head while they asked me questions.

I didn't say the similarity was literal. Patriotism works much better than a gun.

So being patriotic and supporting your country in a war against terrorists and terrorist supporting states is equal, in your mind, to someone holding a gun to your head and forcing you to vote for a certain candidate?

 

[Moonbeam]

You saying, shiner, that American troups should die to eliminate a threat to Israel?

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The issue isn't whether or not Saddam is or isn't a nice guy and it isn't about WMD. It's about what is different now that wasn't true yesterday. Why the big need for war and rumors of war at this time. The tremendous political expediency for Bush with the Iraqi issue is just too obvious to pass by without note. There isn't a war monger among you who wasn't screaming wag the dog when Clinton bombed and it looks like the baby food factory had the precursor chemicals to nerve gas after all.

Well all these threats have been ignored over the years and due to 9/11 there is finally support among the American public to do something about it. If a war against terrorists states had been tried in the past there would have been almost zero support for it because it didn't directly affect anyone here on a day to day basis that was tangible to them. Sadly the populace here as a whole is clueless about what happens in the rest of the world and only cares when they are somehow affected on a personal level. As for the bombing in the Sudan, I'm glad Clinton did it. It was half measure though, just like the lobbing of cruise missiles at empty tents in Afghanistan. Partly because of the reasons I stated above and partly because Clinton didn't have the stomach for a real war.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You saying, shiner, that American troups should die to eliminate a threat to Israel?

It's not just a threat to Israel....quit trying to put words in my mouth. You have a hard enough time getting coherent ones to come out of yours.

 

[Moonbeam]

I didn't put words in your mouth, I asked you a question. That means I want a clarification before I put words in your mouth. Lets get coherent on the meaning of a question mark before we jump up and down about the coherency of others.