No lie dept: Ezra Klein, "The Democrats have lost on sequestration"

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
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Looks like the last holdouts are starting to realize what was obvious from the beginning of the sequester battle - the Democrats were outmanuevered and completely outplayed by the Republicans. And it's only going to get worse from here as the GOP ratches things up further in the next budget cycles. Prepare for a long couple years of bleating from Krugman and the rest of the "but austerity doesn't work" crowd that are still in denial.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/04/26/the-democrats-have-lost-on-sequestration/
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,717
47,406
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Looks like the last holdouts are starting to realize what was obvious from the beginning of the sequester battle - the Democrats were outmanuevered and completely outplayed by the Republicans. And it's only going to get worse from here as the GOP ratches things up further in the next budget cycles. Prepare for a long couple years of bleating from Krugman and the rest of the "but austerity doesn't work" crowd that are still in denial.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/04/26/the-democrats-have-lost-on-sequestration/

Uhmm, at this point basically the entire developed world has come around to the obvious conclusion that austerity doesn't work and is abandoning it en masse. Here's an analysis last week from the head of Goldman Sachs' asset management division:

http://www.goldmansachs.com/gsam/ad...1_2013/reflections-on-japan-and-elsewhere.pdf

Money quotes:
Following the attention the Massachusetts paper has received, Rogoff and Reinhart have apparently admitted their results were not quite as strong on re-analysis of the dataset. Coming soon after an admission by the IMF that they had underestimated the negative cyclical effects of fiscal tightening, this is seen as a victory for Keynesian-biased thinkers who have obviously articulated that growth would be restrained by fiscal tightening, irrespective of potential supplyside benefits of lower public debt.

What is almost definitely the case as a result of this attention is the fact that accelerated fiscal tightening is unlikely in countries where real GDP growth continues to struggle.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
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-snip-
- the Democrats were outmanuevered and completely outplayed by the Republicans.

IMO, they "outmanuevered and completely outplayed" themselves by their purposefully high profile (e.g., closing WH tours and making air travel even worse) and aggressive tactics. The public saw it for what it was.

The Repubs haven't demonstrated any ability to outplay anybody else in anything for a long time.

Fern
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,717
47,406
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IMO, they "outmanuevered and completely outplayed" themselves by their purposefully high profile (e.g., closing WH tours and making air travel even worse) and aggressive tactics. The public saw it for what it was.

The Repubs haven't demonstrated any ability to outplay anybody else in anything for a long time.

Fern

Actually, polling shows that the vast majority of the public wasn't really following it at all and among those who were slightly more blamed Republicans than Obama.

How does this square up with your interpretation of events?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Actually, polling shows that the vast majority of the public wasn't really following it at all and among those who were slightly more blamed Republicans than Obama.

How does this square up with your interpretation of events?

Take up the poll with Klein and other Dems who have expressing concern about this.

To what do you attribute Obama's declining poll numbers?

Fern
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
60
91
Looks like the last holdouts are starting to realize what was obvious from the beginning of the sequester battle - the Democrats were outmanuevered and completely outplayed by the Republicans. And it's only going to get worse from here as the GOP ratches things up further in the next budget cycles. Prepare for a long couple years of bleating from Krugman and the rest of the "but austerity doesn't work" crowd that are still in denial.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/04/26/the-democrats-have-lost-on-sequestration/

but... austerity doesn't work.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,327
6,040
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Actually, polling shows that the vast majority of the public wasn't really following it at all and among those who were slightly more blamed Republicans than Obama.

How does this square up with your interpretation of events?

The links you offer seem to suggest that the most important economic players in the world in general are shifting their opinions as to the effectiveness and importance of austerity as a means to deal with their economic problems. I wonder if this is happening because these folks have need for real solutions and are amenable to factual data. But whatever the truth may be that drives changing opinions, we wouldn't expect to see such change happening here among the People of the Vine who make up conservative thinking.

I believe this because what I see there is not a quest for the objective truth economic theory, but a clinging to a religion that admits to no apostasy.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,717
47,406
136
Take up the poll with Klein and other Dems who have expressing concern about this.

To what do you attribute Obama's declining poll numbers?

Fern

The same decline that happens to nearly every president after re-election? They get a bump in approval after re-election that quickly fades. Obama's sitting right around 50% according to Gallup's poll and he's right around his historical averages in Realclearpolitics' poll of polls.

So I guess I would attribute them to nothing, really.
 

wirednuts

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2007
7,121
4
0
When do the taxpayers get their $300k stimulus checks again?

that might be a stretch, but instead of bailing the banks out they COULD have given that money to every citizen... i read it would have been about $30k each, and THAT my friend would have been a real stimulus.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,272
103
106
What austerity? I'm not aware of any austerity whatsoever, unless you consider increasing spending by less than you wanted "austerity".

Back on topic, I don't think anyone was outmaneuvered or outplayed, the truth is that the whole sequester was a non-event and the public doesn't care. I think the dems overplayed that card with the white house tours and all that, but ultimately the public simply didn't care because the amounts we're talking about are inconsequential compared to the budget as a whole.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
I think Ezra is whining about nothing. It comes off as a dis-jointed piece that isnt based in reality. The only reason why the FAA got their money through was because it hit so many people. That isnt the politically powerful. That is the politically unpowerful majority.

I think the only place Democrats may have lost is their predictions of doom and gloom if govt increases were slowed. Most people knew they were full of shit and the result is most people havent seen much of a problem with a slower growing govt. So in the future they will have a harder time convincing the masses that slowing growth by a % will throw them out on the streets, kill their grandma, and burn the entire economy.
 

JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
11,709
871
126
No austerity now is all well and good but I hope we don't forget about it when things improve. Next time there's a possible surplus hopefully we'll use it to pay down debts instead of lowering taxes. I fear in the boom part of the cycle, they will be less likely to reign back since it might hurt future profits.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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6a00d8341c60fd53ef01901b8da081970b-800wi
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
Still waiting for the apocalyptic doom and gloom obummer and his minions were forecasting if we didn't continue wasting at the pace he wanted to.....
 

wotan

Member
Mar 28, 2008
37
0
0
I'm sure it will be better when the GOP takes over in 3 years.... now if they could only find a candidate.....
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
that might be a stretch, but instead of bailing the banks out they COULD have given that money to every citizen... i read it would have been about $30k each, and THAT my friend would have been a real stimulus.

Not a stretch at all. Money simply doesn't mean anything to Spenders, so it can be $30k, $100k, $300k, whatever. When debt doesn't matter, or, a debt that is so "small" now in relation to GDP (the magical GDP that lets Spenders spend with no regard), especially compared to other countries that haven't fully collapsed, we can almost pick any amount we want.

I used to fight the Spenders but they've really won me over in the past few months by their long term logic, it's truly...wonderous. So, I'm on board. All I want to know is when does my stimulus check get here? I'm not talking some pittance like $500, we need to stimulate this economy like a meth addict being locked into the police evidence room. I know they're probably busy overpaying the IRS to give the Fed gov the money they believe they should be paying, so they aren't hypocrites when they advocate for it, but I wish they'd hurry up and get done so they can get those checks a flowin. It sucks living within my means, I want to be a Spender! :wub:

Chuck