No keeping score in youth sports, no winnars or losers..= pussification of our youth?

[Homerboy]

exactly. I laugh when people say they ruled at low level sports. at 4-5 you were not. you may have been told you were but you were not far above the others. sure there are kids who are better. but they were as he claims.

anyway i agree as you get older you need winers and losers. For some losing drives them to practice harder. My daughter hates not placing in gymnastics. it drives her to try harder.

Both winning and losing teaches kids so much. Above all to accept it and good sportsmanship.

My son is ULTRA competitive in baseball (he loves it, hates to lose, and is quite good at it) When we lose a game, as soon as we get home, he's out in the backyard working on his swing... on his pitching motion etc etc. That work ethic has clearly carried over to the classroom as well. He's been busting his but to get his Spanish grade up from an A- so he can get the elusive 4.0 Sadly, it appears he's going to fall short and he's NOT happy about that.

 

[SearchMaster]

My son is ULTRA competitive in baseball (he loves it, hates to lose, and is quite good at it) When we lose a game, as soon as we get home, he's out in the backyard working on his swing... on his pitching motion etc etc. That work ethic has clearly carried over to the classroom as well. He's been busting his but to get his Spanish grade up from an A- so he can get the elusive 4.0 Sadly, it appears he's going to fall short and he's NOT happy about that.

Damn, your kids are still in school? We've been out for a couple of weeks.

 

[pauldun170]

As a parent who has stood by the side of the field. (Track, swimming, soccer, Baseball etc)
6 and younger - No point to keeping score (but everyone does anyway). As others have mentioned, you are lucky if they are actually paying attention to the game and not just running around in circles trying to see how much dust they can kick up.
Older kids - EVERYONE keeps score and keeps track of who wins or loses. Everyone takes note of the superstars.

We all know how many time team A won throughout the season. Who the top players are and who the best coaches are.

With Track, at least for 5th grade and younger, they'll set up some dashes at the end to give the slower kids a chance at winning something (they'll group slower kids together to give them a chance at getting a medal

 

[Homerboy]

Damn, your kids are still in school? We've been out for a couple of weeks.

Ends on Friday. We start later, plus we have "snow days" up here in WI

 

[NetWareHead]

All of the games I have seen have been 1 all-star who scores 10 goals and the rest of the kids are running around playing with bugs or chasing the crowd.

FWIW I coach T-ball and there is no point in keeping score. 99% of the kids have no idea what is going on, much less who "won" or not.

I feel much better about my performance in pee-wee league baseball now. I cant remember how old I was but I was a little kid and this was the sort of league where the coaches still pitched for the team; none of the players had the strength yet to throw from the mound to the plate. I remember I got distracted while our team was up to bat and started talking to these other kids in the grandstands (non-players). I not only missed my turn to bat but also when we got 3 outs and had to go out to the field. I hung out with them for the rest of the game, apparently several innings. We went off to the woods to drink soda and jump into/across a creek.

 

[Slew Foot]

No one cares about t ball. But yeah, liberal pussies are turning America into a bunch of losers.

 

[waggy]

My son is ULTRA competitive in baseball (he loves it, hates to lose, and is quite good at it) When we lose a game, as soon as we get home, he's out in the backyard working on his swing... on his pitching motion etc etc. That work ethic has clearly carried over to the classroom as well. He's been busting his but to get his Spanish grade up from an A- so he can get the elusive 4.0 Sadly, it appears he's going to fall short and he's NOT happy about that.

My daughter is the same way. She worked her ass off for state (like 3 months ago) for gymnastics. She fell off beam and got a .5 reduction.

She got 8th place overall and missed first by .35 whenver someone tells her congrats for 8th she gets upset. She also spends far more time working on that move she messed up.

her grades though are A''s or B+ most of the time,. Except for spanish for some reason she just can't get it.

 

[Ns1]

I've already seen evidence of what teaching "there are no winners or losers" does. Some of our newer people apparently have never had a single criticism leveled at them their entire lives. Now, after college, they don't know how to handle someone pointing out unsatisfactory work. Most of them wake up pretty quick, but some special snowflakes have been convinced there is some personal, evil vendetta involved.

A personal favorite was Jen, who was programming something in Java for an engineering group to use. The manager kept pointing out bugs to be fixed, not too surprising as she was a new CS grad and real-world programming is going to be tougher than school projects (the requirements keep changing!). After a multiple rounds of meetings about issues in her code, she actually went over her boss' head to complain about being bullied by her boss.

Her justification was that her manager never picked on anyone else so clearly she was being singled out for abuse. This was based on a grand total of about 10 weeks on the job. It got straightened out but she simply had no experience dealing with someone being critical of something she did. Someone telling her 4 or 5 times to fix problems in her work must be abusive behavior!

It's sad because it's what they have been taught. Don't let anyone put you down, you are special, you're great just the way you are, if you try that's good enough...

Holy shit I think your employee works for me now. He thinks he's a goddamn special snowflake.

 

[DrPizza]

Ends on Friday. We start later, plus we have "snow days" up here in WI

Hell, our last day of classes is next week. Then 2 weeks of state final exams. Graduation is June 27. NY.


Anyway, since I see a lot of people mentioning that they coach teams, and someone mentioned the "all star" who scores 10 of the points, here's a tip. (Though, this applies mainly to soccer and possibly basketball, where there's a lot more team work to score.) Tell the all-star that he can play up until he's scored 3 goals. But, if he passes the ball to a team mate and THEY score, he gets to stay in the game longer. Susie's mommy and daddy don't care that the all-star got more playing time, because that's the only reason Susie scored a goal. And, your all-star, instead of simply doing well because he's a little more developed and can run faster, actually learns a lot more skills - especially team work, paying more attention to the position of all the players on the field, etc. Locally, for all the age groups under 12, we sent coach volunteers to a training camp. Most of the coaches incorporated strategies of playing games with the little kids (monkey in the middle, red light green light, etc., with soccer skills); and when that group of kids got to the high school level, they won at states. Of course, as kids got older, a lot of those coaches stopped coaching; and I don't think they send the new coaches to camp any more.

 

[Homerboy]

My daughter is the same way. She worked her ass off for state (like 3 months ago) for gymnastics. She fell off beam and got a .5 reduction.

She got 8th place overall and missed first by .35 whenver someone tells her congrats for 8th she gets upset. She also spends far more time working on that move she messed up.

her grades though are A''s or B+ most of the time,. Except for spanish for some reason she just can't get it.

 

[Majes]

LOL at 4-5 yr old T-ball, no you did not. You may THINK you did. But you didn't. There are no "calls" at 4 year old T-ball. The kids barely can hit the ball and run in the right direction -- no matter how good they are (or you think you were).

That being said, I've coached baseball (and basketball) for ~10 years now -- from 4 year olds to 14 year olds. At the lowest levels, there is no sense in keeping score as it's hardly a "game" Outs are extremely rare and throw/catch is just NEVER going to happen. As kids move up and get older (and the wheat separates from the chaff) that's when score becomes important. Yes... it's IMPORTANT. Kids need to learn to LOSE because (spoiler alert) you're going to lose more in life than win. That's just a simple fact and one that kids need to learn to handle properly and respectfully.

I've seen many MANY different levels of sports, and the ONLY level they do not keep score in is the lowest (t-ball, rec ball etc).

My memory is pretty clear on it, and I'm not sure what you're telling me I didn't do. But we mostly agree. Those kids had no idea what was going on in the game. Most teams were lucky to get 3 outs in a game let alone an inning.

 

[CPA]

I've coached youth football for 15 years, from ages 4 through 12. Very, very few, maybe I can count on one hand, kids at 4-5 can you tell are going to be good, but there are some. Now, get to 6-7, and you can certainly tell if a kids has "it". I coached a kid that was very good at 6 years old and dominated at 7 years old. Hell, I would let him call plays. He knew them all, how to run them and when to run them. We knew he would be great. Sure enough, he just signed with SMU his Spring to play cornerback. So, there are definitely some kids who are much better than the others, even at a very young age.

 

[waggy]

I've coached youth football for 15 years, from ages 4 through 12. Very, very few, maybe I can count on one hand, kids at 4-5 can you tell are going to be good, but there are some. Now, get to 6-7, and you can certainly tell if a kids has "it". I coached a kid that was very good at 6 years old and dominated at 7 years old. Hell, I would let him call plays. He knew them all, how to run them and when to run them. We knew he would be great. Sure enough, he just signed with SMU his Spring to play cornerback. So, there are definitely some kids who are much better than the others, even at a very young age.

oh we aren't saying there aren't any. just 99% of the time when someone says they dominated in 5-6 yr old sports its going off what mom/dad said. And in reality the kid was just not the one picking flowers.

 

[Homerboy]

I've coached youth football for 15 years, from ages 4 through 12. Very, very few, maybe I can count on one hand, kids at 4-5 can you tell are going to be good, but there are some. Now, get to 6-7, and you can certainly tell if a kids has "it". I coached a kid that was very good at 6 years old and dominated at 7 years old. Hell, I would let him call plays. He knew them all, how to run them and when to run them. We knew he would be great. Sure enough, he just signed with SMU his Spring to play cornerback. So, there are definitely some kids who are much better than the others, even at a very young age.

Don't think anyone is denying that. I have a catcher now that is 12 and is lights out behind the plate and can hit the ball 350ft (no lie!). I have helped coach a 13yr old that can tip the speed guns at just south of 80mph and last year had one that can now hit 82mph (he can also hit 350ft)

What people are saying is that a 4-5 years old... nobody cares, nor should they care, what the score is.

 

[Homerboy]

oh we aren't saying there aren't any. just 99% of the time when someone says they dominated in 5-6 yr old sports its going off what mom/dad said. And in reality the kid was just not the one picking flowers.

LOL EXACTLY. Though in baseball it's playing in the dirt

 

[JulesMaximus]

I heard from my wife that they dont keep score in my nephew's tee ball league. She also told me that they are starting to teach kids in school there are no winners or losers...

Fuck that, what happened to winning isnt everything, it is the only thing!!! You are supposed to pound your opponents into the dirt and make them recognise your dominance. Being superior to those around you is the only way to succed in life. what has this country come to?

My son plays basketball and I can assure you that they do keep score and there are winners and losers. Not sure what age level you're talking here but my son is 12 and he's been playing for 4 years now and it has always been this way in the leagues he plays in. He's going to try out for his 8th grade basketball team next year.

 

[Anubis]

Damn, your kids are still in school? We've been out for a couple of weeks.

I think NY state does not graduate until end of June


Edit: I looked it up

Last full day of school is June 22nd

Graduation is the 27th of June

 

[Homerboy]

I think NY state does not graduate until end of June


Edit: I looked it up

Last full day of school is June 22nd

Graduation is the 27th of June

Jeebus. That's half the summer!!!

 

[Anubis]

Jeebus. That's half the summer!!!

or 1/3rd as classes don't really start until the first week of SEPT IIRC

 

[notposting]

All of the games I have seen have been 1 all-star who scores 10 goals and the rest of the kids are running around playing with bugs or chasing the crowd.

I'm sitting here looking at my 4 year old and nodding lol :biggrin:

They do a youth soccer league at the school a few minutes away and I watch them run around practicing sometimes when we take the boys to the playground.

It's like cat-herding.

 

[irishScott]

depending on age, no issue with the first, but the second is commie poppycock.

This.

 

[CPA]

oh we aren't saying there aren't any. just 99% of the time when someone says they dominated in 5-6 yr old sports its going off what mom/dad said. And in reality the kid was just not the one picking flowers.

Oh yeah, definitely agree with that.

 

[lxskllr]

A personal favorite was Jen, who was programming something in Java for an engineering group to use. The manager kept pointing out bugs to be fixed, not too surprising as she was a new CS grad and real-world programming is going to be tougher than school projects (the requirements keep changing!). After a multiple rounds of meetings about issues in her code, she actually went over her boss' head to complain about being bullied by her boss.

She'd never make it as a Linux kernel hacker.

Mauro, SHUT THE FUCK UP!

It's a bug alright - in the kernel. How long have you been a
maintainer? And you *still* haven't learnt the first rule of kernel
maintenance?

If a change results in user programs breaking, it's a bug in the
kernel. We never EVER blame the user programs. How hard can this be to
understand?

To make matters worse, commit f0ed2ce840b3 is clearly total and utter
CRAP even if it didn't break applications. ENOENT is not a valid error
return from an ioctl. Never has been, never will be. ENOENT means "No
such file and directory", and is for path operations. ioctl's are done
on files that have already been opened, there's no way in hell that
ENOENT would ever be valid.

> So, on a first glance, this doesn't sound like a regression,
> but, instead, it looks tha pulseaudio/tumbleweed has some serious
> bugs and/or regressions.

Shut up, Mauro. And I don't _ever_ want to hear that kind of obvious
garbage and idiocy from a kernel maintainer again. Seriously.

I'd wait for Rafael's patch to go through you, but I have another
error report in my mailbox of all KDE media applications being broken
by v3.8-rc1, and I bet it's the same kernel bug. And you've shown
yourself to not be competent in this issue, so I'll apply it directly
and immediately myself.

WE DO NOT BREAK USERSPACE!

Seriously. How hard is this rule to understand? We particularly don't
break user space with TOTAL CRAP. I'm angry, because your whole email
was so _horribly_ wrong, and the patch that broke things was so
obviously crap. The whole patch is incredibly broken shit. It adds an
insane error code (ENOENT), and then because it's so insane, it adds a
few places to fix it up ("ret == -ENOENT ? -EINVAL : ret").

The fact that you then try to make *excuses* for breaking user space,
and blaming some external program that *used* to work, is just
shameful. It's not how we work.

Fix your f*cking "compliance tool", because it is obviously broken.
And fix your approach to kernel programming.

:^D

 

[futurefields]

be pretty pissed if i signed my kid up for t-ball and he never got to play because he didn't fit into the coaches plan for winning the t-ball world series

look at the major sports, athletes are bigger stronger and faster than ever, competition is fine

 

[OutHouse]

"I heard from my wife that they dont keep score in my nephew's tee ball league."

That's been the case since I played in the early 70's.