No GTX 270/290

[stipalgl]

http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=353991

Apparently, the 270 and 290 aren't happening any time soon as some were expecting.

Perhaps it was a combination of several factors but I'm somewhat confused as to why Nvidia would opt to transition existing cards to 55nm, as opposed to ramping up speeds and releasing refreshes.

Nonetheless, this would coincide with news of an upcoming price drop for cards for both companies.

 

[MarcVenice]

IMO, the gtx260 216 is fast enough, it's equal to a HD4870, but often costs the same or a little more. With 55nm nvidia could just get that edge on AMD, and improve margins. Also, a gtx290 would force the gtx280 eol. They could have gotten rid of old stock first, or improve margins right away. Looks like they opted for the latter. Or, maybe they will pull a rabbit out of their head, or maybe all the gtx270/290 rumours were just to get AMD riled up.

 

[nitromullet]

I'm somewhat confused as to why Nvidia would opt to transition existing cards to 55nm

Manufacturing costs/price wars with competition. If NV shrinks the chip, re-brands it, and it doesn't perform significantly faster then the current chips they will not get reviewed well, which hurts their image/sales. On the other hand, the current GTX 260/280 cards are already pretty sweet cards and are probably selling ok given their price bracket, so if they can simply reduce their overhead it will help them be more competitive.

 

[nitromullet]

55nm might also allow NV to come out with a "GX2 280" without making their current cards EOL by coming out with GTX 270/290 cards.

 

[stipalgl]

I don't know. You bring up good points, however...

Knowing Nvidia, what with their constant rebranding and whatnot, I find it strange they've opted for a silent refresh as opposed to releasing new, higher clocked cards, albeit of the same architecture.

They did something similar last year with the 8800GT/GTS.

If they simply refresh the cards and add no speed increases, it would leave me questioning their plans since that would definitely not be their style.

In regards to the GX2 280, I have a hard time seeing that come to fruition, given the architecture behind a single GTX 280 chip. That being said, I've learned time and time again to "never say never".

Perhaps a GX2 260 would be more logical, especially one based on the 216 core model.

 

[nitromullet]

...well, perhaps the info is false... My main point is that, if this is true, there are a number of good reasons to for NV to do it.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Apparently nVIDIA has allowed its partners to custom design the GTX260/280 PCBs along with the GT206 transition. I think this is great since it doesnt require introducing newer SKUs like "GTX260+" or something like that.

 

[Hauk]

How about step-up.. Eligible 260 owners could step-up to a 55nm 280, but eligible 280 owners couldn't step-up to the same name card right? That leaves what, step-up to the sandwich card that Fud is saying comes in Jan.

I bet the board partners' concerns are weighing in heavier now than in the past. Is step-up profitable? No re-branding seems like it would benefit them more than anyone at this point.

 

[Hauk]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Apparently nVIDIA has allowed its partners to custom design the GTX260/280 PCBs along with the GT206 transition. I think this is great since it doesnt require introducing newer SKUs like "GTX260+" or something like that.

Where'd you hear that?

 

[Cookie Monster]

Link

Reliable source shows that GTX200 Series with 55nm CPU will be still branded as GeForce260/280, instead of GTX270/290 as rumor told. They will hit the market in December to take the place of present storage.

On the other side, NVIDIA recently authorizes its partners to design non-reference GeForce GTX200 card on their own, which will help reduce price and improve marketing share. Relative products will be shown at the beginning of 2009 if everything goes well.

It seems NVIDIA has been prepared to update its GPU line?s processing. Probably it?s show time for mysterious 260GX2 now.

 

[Hauk]

Me's not pleased. I was going to grab a couple 280's this Friday.. (and step-up) :thumbsdown:

 

[rjc]

Originally posted by: stipalgl
Knowing Nvidia, what with their constant rebranding and whatnot, I find it strange they've opted for a silent refresh as opposed to releasing new, higher clocked cards, albeit of the same architecture.

They did something similar last year with the 8800GT/GTS.

If they simply refresh the cards and add no speed increases, it would leave me questioning their plans since that would definitely not be their style.

Well looking at their other cards:
G92 -> G92b 9800gt is both 65nm and 55nm
G94 -> G94b 9600gt is both 65nm and 55nm
G96 -> G96b 9500 is both 65nm and 55nm

Given above it wouldn't be improbable that that the same thing occured for the GT200 series cards as well.

Has the advantage when released of not instantly depreciating all the partners current stock in the old model They can still sell the 65nm parts at ok margin.

Of course if one partner decides to go feral and clock up their 55nm chip and market it as better than regular GTX200 cards while all the others are sitting on warehouses of the 65nm product there could be problems. ie sort of like the recent asus 9800gt card.

 

[rjc]

Originally posted by: SteelSix
Is step-up profitable?

Yeah, they wouldnt do it otherwise. Requires high margins though.

For instance hypothetically say they sold you a GTX260 for $250 and you later stepped up to a GTX280 at $350.

You have paid them a net total of $350 and they have a second hand 260 that can be resold or used for warranty claims. Say to them that 260 is now worth $100 ie they have got $450 in value.

It cost them say $180 to produce the 260 and say $250 for the 280 ie $430 in expenses ie $20 net profit.

If their margins drop a little though, the $20 profit goes bye bye.

Look at this link. The ASPs are an approx proxy for margins and they have been going down now for a year or so the step up programs and extensive warranties on high end cards look to be in some danger.

ie enjoy it while it lasts

 

[Ichigo]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
IMO, the gtx260 216 is fast enough, it's equal to a HD4870, but often costs the same or a little more. With 55nm nvidia could just get that edge on AMD, and improve margins. Also, a gtx290 would force the gtx280 eol. They could have gotten rid of old stock first, or improve margins right away. Looks like they opted for the latter. Or, maybe they will pull a rabbit out of their head, or maybe all the gtx270/290 rumours were just to get AMD riled up.

I would prefer, you know, competition and progress.

 

[Hauk]

Originally posted by: rjc

Originally posted by: SteelSix
Is step-up profitable?

Yeah, they wouldnt do it otherwise. Requires high margins though.

For instance hypothetically say they sold you a GTX260 for $250 and you later stepped up to a GTX280 at $350.

You have paid them a net total of $350 and they have a second hand 260 that can be resold or used for warranty claims. Say to them that 260 is now worth $100 ie they have got $450 in value.

It cost them say $180 to produce the 260 and say $250 for the 280 ie $430 in expenses ie $20 net profit.

If their margins drop a little though, the $20 profit goes bye bye.

Look at this link. The ASPs are an approx proxy for margins and they have been going down now for a year or so the step up programs and extensive warranties on high end cards look to be in some danger.

ie enjoy it while it lasts

You're pretty smart my friend. You should contribute more often.. :thumbsup:

 

[Keysplayr]

You know, technically, even with a reduction in die size, no vendor "has" to reduce prices. Your aren't paying for die size. Your paying for the performance. It really doesn't matter if a GT260 or 280 were built on 32nm right now or 110nm right now. What is paid for is the performance. Now, enthusiasts and overclockers, due to advanced knowledge, can choose which they want for certain reasons.
But, there is no law that promises to automatically lower prices, at least right away, for a smaller engineering process. People say how close Nvidia's margins have been, and may even be losing money on the GTX260 because of die costs. So don't think that when they shrink the die it will cost less than a 65nm GTX260. I'm not saying anyone does think this because most of you are looking for a cooler, faster, less power hungry card.

I could picture the pricing of 55nm GT200's to be just slightly higher than 65nm GT200's for a while. At least until competition surfaces which is actually the main driving force in pricing.

 

[ronnn]

If true, this is not good news for nvidia. Another flopper, when it rains it pours. (ask ati)

 

[Cookie Monster]

I think the rather good news for nVIDIA is that 40nm is early on schedule possibly a reason why they are reserving the GTX270/290 monikers before releasing their GT300 based DX11 card.

 

[badnewcastle]

I don't think anyone knows wtf amd or nv are planning or doing except those with contracts saying they can't tell anyone.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
I think the rather good news for nVIDIA is that 40nm is early on schedule possibly a reason why they are reserving the GTX270/290 monikers before releasing their GT300 based DX11 card.

At least the monikers aren't in inventory. But a nice new moniker with a speed bump would look very nice before xmas.

 

[Dadofamunky]

Originally posted by: rjc

Originally posted by: stipalgl
Knowing Nvidia, what with their constant rebranding and whatnot, I find it strange they've opted for a silent refresh as opposed to releasing new, higher clocked cards, albeit of the same architecture.

They did something similar last year with the 8800GT/GTS.

If they simply refresh the cards and add no speed increases, it would leave me questioning their plans since that would definitely not be their style.

Well looking at their other cards:
G92 -> G92b 9800gt is both 65nm and 55nm
G94 -> G94b 9600gt is both 65nm and 55nm
G96 -> G96b 9500 is both 65nm and 55nm

Given above it wouldn't be improbable that that the same thing occured for the GT200 series cards as well.

Has the advantage when released of not instantly depreciating all the partners current stock in the old model They can still sell the 65nm parts at ok margin.

Of course if one partner decides to go feral and clock up their 55nm chip and market it as better than regular GTX200 cards while all the others are sitting on warehouses of the 65nm product there could be problems. ie sort of like the recent asus 9800gt card.

How does one know what they're buying? Can the SKU be checked?

 

[masteryoda34]

Originally posted by: Dadofamunky
How does one know what they're buying? Can the SKU be checked?

I really hope Nvidia goes with the "+" moniker to designate the cards with the new chips. I don't understand why they wouldn't rename them. Nvidia has renamed everything as many times as possible in the past few years to drum up sales of "new" products. I don't get why they wouldn't do it again.

This is so ironic. Renaming the chips in this case would actually make sense, and nvidia isnt doing it. But they renamed cards so many times in the past when it made no sense.

 

[will889]

^theoretically - initially marketing gurus will confuse ( purposefully obsfuscate) the 65 with 55nm and raise the pricing of the 65nm cards at different times at different retailers to get more money with the older cards.

 

[rjc]

Originally posted by: Dadofamunky
How does one know what they're buying? Can the SKU be checked?

Not easily

I think to be 100% sure have to pull off the HSF and scrape off the thermal compound to reveal the sku on the actual chip. Then also measure the size of the chip with a ruler to double check.

For instance on the 65nm 9800s is printed G92-270-A1 and on the 55nm G92-280-B1. The 65nm dies size is roughly 330mm2 and 280mm2 for the 55nm. The other chips G94 and G96 have a similar B suffix(or C suffix for G96) for the 55nm generation.

GPUZ has had problems in the past recognizing the 55nm nvidia die shrinks, not sure if it is working correctly today. The GPUZ author has to be provided feedback from people with the chip to add to his database.

This makes for difficulties when buying online or in a retail store. Did notice the 55nm 9800 has hybrid power and i think the 9600 has VC1 playback which the 65nm chips lack, maybe also display port too. Unfortunately the TDP does not seem much reduced for the given clock so cant use that either.

For the 55nm GT200 highly suggest waiting till some one else has bought one first

 

[JPB]

I plan on stepping up to one of the 280 55nm cards. So hopefully when I do, they send me the right version