No GK106 for Nvidia's 600 series lineup?

[tviceman]

http://www.techpowerup.com/169742/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-650-Specifications-and-Launch-Date-Leaked.html

Techpowerup is reporting that the gtx650 (I'm guessing the gtx prefix is not correct, more likely gt or gts) will be a GK107 chip with gddr5 vram. Given that the GK104 is set to release two more chips very soon with both being rumored to have the 660 name, that wouldn't leave much room in the product naming scheme for a GK106 chip.

This is my own speculation, but if there is a GK106 chip, the only name left for it would be gtx (or gts) 655. And between GK104, even if it's cut down to 1152 shaders, and a GK107 (even if clocked higher than the 640 is and paired with GDDR5 ram), that leaves a really, really big gap in performance in their 600 series lineup.

Weird, interesting, and kinda makes me wonder what Kepler's product development strategy was (and is going forward). I wonder if Pitcairn's strong performance had anything to do with the GK106's continued absence.

 

[Homeles]

I just give up on this generation. When Nvidia is capable of producing a full product lineup and AMD drops their prices to a reasonable level... maybe I'll be interested.

A GK107 based 650 isn't going to do anything for the current situation.

 

[f1sherman]

You'll buy whole NV lineup then, but what about AMD?



There is a large gap in fully released HD7000 btw

 

[Homeles]

There is a large gap in fully released HD7000 btw

There's always a large gap between the low end and mid range cards. Take the jump from 5670 to 5750, for instance. The 5750 outperforms it by 50%.

 

[f1sherman]

Nah, this is different

There is no decent sub $200 card.

 

[Silverforce11]

gk106 was leaked along with gk104 specs ages ago which were spot on, it was supposed to be exactly half a gk104 (and would be much faster than the terrible gk107). There's a gap for it to fit in so i dunno why they aren't even hinting at releasing products with it, rather than neutering gk104 so much for 2 additional tiers of lower cards...

Speculate?

 

[Homeles]

Nah, this is different

There is no decent sub $200 card.

It isn't different. Prices are bloated tremendously.

 

[f1sherman]

gk106 was leaked along with gk104 specs ages ago which were spot on, it was supposed to be exactly half a gk104 (and would be much faster than the terrible gk107).

You mean these:

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showpost.php?p=149618&postcount=249


PhysX block LOL

 

[Silverforce11]

No i meant the full chart of every kepler gpu leaked from Japan. If u were around late last year, you would know what im talking bout. That leak is spot on. Also, GK110 will be massive and probably very fast and power hungry, but thats not suprising.

 

[richaron]

Weird, interesting, and kinda makes me wonder what Kepler's product development strategy was (and is going forward). I wonder if Pitcairn's strong performance had anything to do with the GK106's continued absence.

I can only guess about development, but it seems pretty obvious nvidia can get by with only 2 chips this "generation". A cherry picked gk107/gddr5 should look like a lower-mid range card. Plus they can probly afford to sell full gk104 cards for $300, so underclocked & crippled ones could easily fill the mid-range sector as long as they don't undercut themselves too much.

Why would they go to the trouble of ~polishing off~ more chips when they can keep them in development & "up their sleeves"?

 

[f1sherman]

That previous was better than the leaked roadmap

 

[ShintaiDK]

You will see GK106 in august.

And lol@those silly rumour roadmaps and info.

 

[RussianSensation]

The chip will pack 384 CUDA cores, and a 128-bit wide GDDR5 memory interface?

Considering Kepler cores are slower than Fermi cores and that 128-bit memory bus, this card will get destroyed by GTX560Ti/HD6870. By the time it launches, I can see HD7850 dipping to under $200 easily.

AMD drops their prices to a reasonable level... maybe I'll be interested.

AMD has no incentive to lower prices. It's delivering more value at nearly every price level, except $1k occupied by the 690:

HD7750 $80-100 > GTS450
HD7770 $100-120 > GTX550Ti
HD6870 $150 > GTX560
HD6950 2GB $190 > GTX560 Ti
HD7850 $210-230 > GTX560 448
HD7870 $250-280 > GTX570
HD7950 $310-340 after market versions > no direct competitor, cheaper than $400 GTX670s
HD7970 $420-430 1.0-1.1ghz versions > after market GTX670s
HD7970 GE $450 > GTX680

The only way prices can fall is if NV drops them to start a price war or GTX660/660Ti are better at the price levels occupied by AMD cards right now. The ball is in NV's court.

This generation does look expensive, but only because AMD was giving away cards for nearly "free" for 3 consecutive generations before ($299 for HD4870 vs. $649 original price for GTX280, $259 for HD5850 that overclocked to the 5870, $299 for HD6950 that unlocked into a 6970). They barely made any $ doing that. That strategy was unsustainable. The best way to get more value now for consumers is to skip generations or resell your older card during upgrades. For those still sitting on GTX570/HD6950 (esp unlocked), there won't be a better card this generation for $250 worth upgrading to until the end of the cycle when GTX700/HD8000 series launch. We are back to the old days of GPU pricing on both sides.

 

[Homeles]

Well, at this point you know I agree with you. I'm hoping that I can snatch a 7000 series card for cheap (relatively) next generation or that HD 8000 or GTX 700 offers better performance per dollar than current cards

 

[tviceman]

You will see GK106 in august.

And lol@those silly rumour roadmaps and info.

What will they call it and where when they find a right time to launch it around the approaching gtx660's and gtx550?

 

[Grooveriding]

No i meant the full chart of every kepler gpu leaked from Japan. If u were around late last year, you would know what im talking bout. That leak is spot on. Also, GK110 will be massive and probably very fast and power hungry, but thats not suprising.

Yes, this one. It was one of the first leaks and probably the only genuine one.

 

[Siberian]

So that confirms that we have not seen NVIDIA's actual high end chip yet? It's amazing what they have done so far with just their middle chip.

 

[tviceman]

Yes, this one. It was one of the first leaks and probably the only genuine one.

TDP and memory clock for GK104 was off, memory bus for GK100 is off, and there is no known chip as GK108, released or in development. GK100 clocks and memory speed is still up in the air. For as much as that chart got right, it also got some things notably wrong.

 

[Red Hawk]

So that confirms that we have not seen NVIDIA's actual high end chip yet? It's amazing what they have done so far with just their middle chip.

For all intents and purposes GK104 is their high-end chip. I've heard that the GK110 isn't going to be released until 2013, which gives AMD plenty of time to develop a new chip of their own.

 

[Homeles]

TDP and memory clock for GK104 was off, memory bus for GK100 is off, and there is no known chip as GK108, released or in development. GK100 clocks and memory speed is still up in the air. For as much as that chart got right, it also got some things notably wrong.

Well, clocks are very much subject to change prior to launch.

 

[Grooveriding]

TDP and memory clock for GK104 was off, memory bus for GK100 is off, and there is no known chip as GK108, released or in development. GK100 clocks and memory speed is still up in the air. For as much as that chart got right, it also got some things notably wrong.

I can't believe that someone could be so right about so many things and wrong on just a couple on pure guesswork

This leak was from at least six months before GTX 680 released, I believe it was even earlier than that, but my memory is hazy. No doubt things like the original GK100 not being manufactured and moving to GK110 along with other iterations over time can account for the discrepancies.

 

[tviceman]

I can't believe that someone could be so right about so many things and wrong on just a couple on pure guesswork

This leak was from at least six months before GTX 680 released, I believe it was even earlier than that, but my memory is hazy. No doubt things like the original GK100 not being manufactured and moving to GK110 along with other iterations over time can account for the discrepancies.

This is true. Back to the topic on hand, I have come to a loose conclusion that Nvidia is sandbagging Kepler's memory bandwidth with the 600 series cards so that the refreshes will look more attractive (somewhat similar in some respects to how Nvidia's entire 400 series was crippled in one way or another).

As is, I don't see where gk106 fits in, unless it will be the gtx655.

 

[toyota]

This is true. Back to the topic on hand, I have come to a loose conclusion that Nvidia is sandbagging Kepler's memory bandwidth with the 600 series cards so that the refreshes will look more attractive (somewhat similar in some respects to how Nvidia's entire 400 series was crippled in one way or another).

As is, I don't see where gk106 fits in, unless it will be the gtx655.

how are they sandbagging the 600 series bandwidth when they are running the fastest memory available(in volume) and running it at its full rated speed?

 

[RussianSensation]

Yes, this one. It was one of the first leaks and probably the only genuine one.

I remember that chart/source at ChipHell was the only one that claimed no Shader clock where about 5-6 sources all had GPU clock and 2x Shader clock. ChipHell has come through before with some pretty accurate leaks. Sure that chart wasn't exact, but they got a lot of information right. That 3dMark 11 Extreme score is very close, 1536 SPs, 32 ROPs. Also, technically speaking the 2x6-pin power connector can support 225W. So their guess for 225W TDP wasn't unreasonable for GK104 cards.

The interesting thing is with NV planning to launch GTX660/660Ti in August and 650Ti card rumoured for September 17, it doesn't look like GTX700 series is even on the radar. I am thinking GTX700 series for March-April 2013, unless HD8000 series is stunningly quick and NV just re-badges GTX670/680 cards as GTX760/770 and finally launched GK110 as GTX780. Right now you can be they want to sell every single GK110 as a K20 Tesla card ($3-5K?) and make a killing on them.

 

[Grooveriding]

I remember that chart/source at ChipHell was the only one that claimed no Shader clock where about 5-6 sources all had GPU clock and 2x Shader clock. ChipHell has come through before with some pretty accurate leaks. Sure that chart wasn't exact, but they got a lot of information right. That 3dMark 11 Extreme score is very close, 1536 SPs, 32 ROPs. Also, technically speaking the 2x6-pin power connector can support 225W. So their guess for 225W TDP wasn't unreasonable for GK104 cards.

The interesting thing is with NV planning to launch GTX660/660Ti in August and 650Ti card rumoured for September 17, it doesn't look like GTX700 series is even on the radar. I am thinking GTX700 series for March-April 2013, unless HD8000 series is stunningly quick and NV just re-badges GTX670/680 cards as GTX760/770 and finally launched GK110 as GTX780. Right now you can be they want to sell every single GK110 as a K20 Tesla card ($3-5K?) and make a killing on them.

If GK110 is ready I think it will launch sooner. 7970GE is already the fastest card. I saw some rumours here at AT I believe saying the 8970 will have a bigger die than 7970, not much, believe it was about 20-25% ?

If AMD launches 8970 in September/October with a card that is 25-30% faster than the 680 (likely) for $500-$550 I think NV will want to respond rather than drop prices. It would be that or another 5870 vs GTX 285 six month situation for them of their flagship sitting on the shelves and being a non-contender for the price vs AMD's.

This of course if AMD does launch that soon. I think the speed boost over a 680 is a given this time round. 7970 and 680 are pretty much on parity, this is different from the 480 vs 5870 movement to 6970 vs 580. Whatever AMD launches for the 8970, I expect it to be convincingly much faster than the GTX 680 is.

The estimates I heard in those rumours put GK110 geforce as earliest 2013 though. So who knows. GK110 will most assuredly turn out faster than 8970, it's a monster die, but it could end up being the same situation of coming so far past the 8970's launch the two aren't squaring off for a while, or not...