No Fine for Breaking the Speed Limit of Light

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cybrsage

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
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A new experiment appears to provide further evidence that Einstein may have been wrong when he laid down that nothing could go faster than the speed of light, a theory that underpins modern thinking on how the universe works.
The new evidence, challenging a dogma of science that has stood since Albert Einstein published his theory of relativity in 1905, appeared to confirm that sub-atomic particles called neutrinos could travel fractions of a second faster.
A new experiment at the Gran Sasso laboratory, using a neutrino beam from CERN in Switzerland, 720 km (450 miles) away, was held to check similar findings last September by a team of scientists which were greeted with some skepticism.
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Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011...y-new-neutrino-test/?test=faces#ixzz1e5Cq1Yn9

Interesting...for it trashes our modern understanding of the universe.
 
irishScott

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
Cool, would like to see this moved to highly technical. See what the people who have knowledge of something beyond talking points have to say.
 
cybrsage

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
OOps..sorry, I am used to most Politics and News forurms to be Politics, Religion and Science. MY BAD!
 
monovillage

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
An interesting article, i guess it isn't settled. Off topic, but of similar interest is this site about physics.

"Sixty Symbols

SIΧTΨ SγMBΦLS is a collection of (currently) 143 videos on a number of physics topics, from cosmology to quantum mechanics, from the University of Nottingham. Each video is typically five to ten minutes long, and features one to a half-dozen professors discussing the topic at hand."

http://sagaciousiconoclast.blogspot.com/2011/11/60symbols.html
 
Fern

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Interesting. I thought I read that some Dutch scientists had claimed the original experiments incorrect due to a measurement error (earth's rotational effects or something?).

Interesting to see this latest test confirms the faster-than-light possibility. Looking forward to more confirmation and ultimately the significance of this if proven.

Fern
 
ElFenix

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
8,574
126
cybrsage said:
OOps..sorry, I am used to most Politics and News forurms to be Politics, Religion and Science. MY BAD!
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ours is for shitstorms. if it's going to light off a forum shitstorm, it goes here. otherwise it can stay in off topic or in highly technical.
 
cybrsage

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
ElFenix said:
ours is for shitstorms. if it's going to light off a forum shitstorm, it goes here. otherwise it can stay in off topic or in highly technical.
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My experience is that politics and religion usually end up in a shitstorm...and then science is included because scientism is more of a religion than it is actual science (scientism is the faith based belief that science can and will answer all possible questions). It usually just ends up being evolution vs creation debates anyway. :)
 
M

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
I wouldn't think of this as the speed of light being broken as it being redefined as some sort of new absolute speed law for particles. Speed is limited in part by mass, both light and neutrinos have next to nothing for mass, but I think neutrinos have even less interface with other mass than do light, so they have less... drag, would be the best term I can pick for it. We have enough difficulties just observing neutrinos. Other things that seem governed by the speed of light (the various EM waves, etc) can be easily observed though.

Caveat: I don't follow subatomic physics. Everything above could be totally nuts.
 
A

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,645
0
76
www.facebook.com
I have a friend who believed that things could move faster than the speed of light. He was 16 when I first heard him reject the theory that nothing is faster than the speed of light.
 
I

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
More bad science reporting. It's sad how quick people are to lap it up.

Jacques Martino, director of the French National Institute of Nuclear and Particle Physics, who worked on the second experiment said that while this test was not a full confirmation, it did remove some of the potential systematic errors that may have occurred in the first one.
"The search is not over," he said in a statement. "There are more checks of systematics currently under discussion."
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So really they're just saying they removed one source of error. The last time they brought this up they caused an uproar with plenty of morons claiming "cool Einstein has been overturned!" and several errors were found. These are very complex experiments with lots of things that can go wrong.
 
davmat787

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,512
24
76
MotF Bane said:
I wouldn't think of this as the speed of light being broken as it being redefined as some sort of new absolute speed law for particles. Speed is limited in part by mass, both light and neutrinos have next to nothing for mass, but I think neutrinos have even less interface with other mass than do light, so they have less... drag, would be the best term I can pick for it. We have enough difficulties just observing neutrinos. Other things that seem governed by the speed of light (the various EM waves, etc) can be easily observed though.

Caveat: I don't follow subatomic physics. Everything above could be totally nuts.
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I think you are right. While there are neutrino detectors, and they are a cool thing in how they detect, neutrinos pass straight through both us and the earth by the billions/trillions every second. Light particles, not so much obviously.

IIRC, the standard model predicted neutrinos to have zero mass, but this was eventually proven to be false.
 
Lemon law

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Well its an interesting conjecture, neutrinos are the most abundant set of particles in the universe, as they interact with almost nothing.

But now we have a thread title that somehow Neutrinos are guilty of speeding. Which leads us to ask, where are the cosmic cops, and are their jails in the universe big enough to hold all them scoff law neutrinos? And if the scofflaws are faster than the cops, how will the cosmic cops ever catch up with them?

The world wonders, or it it a measurement error?

In related news at Cern, scientists have recently discovered new particles never seen before.

Roll over Beethoven.
 
Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,918
10,246
136
Now if we could just 'reduce the drag' on other particles, temporarily.

Could we generate neutrinos and order them into a whirl, a vortex? Perhaps they can be arranged to achieve some unknown feat of science.
 
davmat787

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,512
24
76
Jaskalas said:
Now if we could just 'reduce the drag' on other particles, temporarily.

Could we generate neutrinos and order them into a whirl, a vortex? Perhaps they can be arranged to achieve some unknown feat of science.
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Apparently one can make neutrinos, and have them picked up by a detector: http://profmattstrassler.com/2011/09/23/how-to-make-a-neutrino-beam/

But as a particle, I don't see (with my admittedly very little understanding) how you could create a vortex, or in other words control them other than as a beam.

If anyone is interested, here is a link to neutrino detectors, which I have been fascinated by the relative elegant simplicity in how they work.

superk_water.jpg
 
Modelworks

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
quantum entanglement . When you have two particles changing states based on each other and they can be millions of miles apart and the change is instant no matter the distance, that beats anything else I have read about.
Poor Einstein couldn't except that spooky stuff was so.
 
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cybrsage

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
silverpig said:
He's still right though.
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No, the report was from Reuters. Almost all of their reports are from the AP or Reuters.

So unless he, and you, are saying both Reuters and the AP are horrible, you are wrong.

I know, I know, it is easier to say groups who report about things you want to stay hidden are horrible...
 
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