• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

No Breaks for "Mr. Danger": Chavez wins re-election by LANDSLIDE

Page 8 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,384
3,510
126
Originally posted by: Jadow
I can't believe some of the people in this thread.

MARXISM DOESNT WORK PEOPLE, The Soviet Union was the great Marxist experiment and IT FAILED.
No one has said it does.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,390
9,214
126
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: sandorski
Rights are granted by Government through the Will of the People. There is no Natural Right for a few to control a Natural Wealth. That Right, where it exists, only exists because the People Freely chose to grant it.
WRONG. Rights are not granted by government. Rights are inherent, and people grant government powers. You are correct that there is no natural right of a few to control all the wealth, but that's just another talking point.

Get off your rhetoric. Yours (rot's, McOwen's, etc.) has nothing to do with rich and poor and we all know that. You only fool yourself. You're all just partisan hacks. If Bill Gates sang your political tune, but never gave a dime of charity, you'd love him. He doesn't sing your tune, gives billions, and you hate him.
Sigh.
Sigh what? Let's refresh ourselves by reading where this concept of natural rights comes from:
WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness?That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Doesn't matter what the US Constitution says, "Rights" exist because the People(or whoever has the Power) choose for them to exist.
Wrong again. They exist because they cannot be revoked without force and violence. They're not given by anyone or anything (except God if you believe in that). They simply ARE.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,384
3,510
126
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: sandorski
Rights are granted by Government through the Will of the People. There is no Natural Right for a few to control a Natural Wealth. That Right, where it exists, only exists because the People Freely chose to grant it.
WRONG. Rights are not granted by government. Rights are inherent, and people grant government powers. You are correct that there is no natural right of a few to control all the wealth, but that's just another talking point.

Get off your rhetoric. Yours (rot's, McOwen's, etc.) has nothing to do with rich and poor and we all know that. You only fool yourself. You're all just partisan hacks. If Bill Gates sang your political tune, but never gave a dime of charity, you'd love him. He doesn't sing your tune, gives billions, and you hate him.
Sigh.
Sigh what? Let's refresh ourselves by reading where this concept of natural rights comes from:
WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness?That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Doesn't matter what the US Constitution says, "Rights" exist because the People(or whoever has the Power) choose for them to exist.
Wrong again. They exist because they cannot be revoked without force and violence. They're not given by anyone or anything (except God if you believe in that). They simply ARE.
Ugh
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,050
6
81
Originally posted by: Red Dawn

If you are going to stereotype, try coming somewhere within a million miles of your target.
Well it was an educated guess as Tower Records and Starbucks seem to be the preferred places of employment for your average stuck in the 90's Green Haired Anarchist.[/quote]

Yep, the fusetalk folks came and drew me for this icon. :roll:

I have not had green hair except once when I was 15 or something.

That was like 17 years ago genius. It is a ICON, from a rather limited list list of them, not a self portrait, and btw, the 90's sucked, as do your educated guesses.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,050
6
81
Originally posted by: Vic


Doesn't matter what the US Constitution says, "Rights" exist because the People(or whoever has the Power) choose for them to exist.
Wrong again. They exist because they cannot be revoked without force and violence. They're not given by anyone or anything (except God if you believe in that). They simply ARE.[/quote]

:roll: Unbelievable. Are you that blind or so sucked up into this mode of thinking you do not see what has been going on?
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,050
6
81
Originally posted by: Art Vandelay
That was a great documentary.

Amamos a Sr. Chavez. Nosotros, la gente.

Estoy alegre tú tengo gusto de él.

Chavez es un hombre valiente haberse pegado con lo que él hizo y contra los muchos enemigos. Desea la libertad viva.

Éstas son pistas que tengo gusto de pasar encendido

excusar mi español te agradecen
 

Dean

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 1999
2,757
0
0
Originally posted by: Vic

He's still paying people to vote for him. And I don't make the statement lightly. If you look closely, that's what his entire platform is about. I too have genuine concern for the plight of the poor, but not to the radical extent of allowing an authoritarian leader to bribe votes under that guise.

Vote for me and I will cut your taxes!!

 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Originally posted by: Craig234
What many of us are happy to see - oh, let's call us 'supporters of democracy' - is democracy work in places like Venezuela in electing people who will represent the people, rather than be puppets of foreign interests, largely meaning US corporations and the government serving them.
I almost always read Craig's posts with complete disgust, but I'm in agreement here. If Chavez was elected honestly and democratically, who are we to judge? Obviously the people have spoken, and they want Chavez. More power to 'em.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,390
9,214
126
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Vic
Doesn't matter what the US Constitution says, "Rights" exist because the People(or whoever has the Power) choose for them to exist.
Wrong again. They exist because they cannot be revoked without force and violence. They're not given by anyone or anything (except God if you believe in that). They simply ARE.
:roll: Unbelievable. Are you that blind or so sucked up into this mode of thinking you do not see what has been going on?[/quote]

Blinded by and sucked up into what? The concept of inherent rights is the foundation of liberal philosophy. If you believe that rights are granted to the people by government, then you simply are not a liberal. This is not a matter of dispute. Once again, you prove yourself to be the exact opposite of a liberal.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,390
9,214
126
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Art Vandelay
That was a great documentary.

Amamos a Sr. Chavez. Nosotros, la gente.

Estoy alegre tú tengo gusto de él.

Chavez es un hombre valiente haberse pegado con lo que él hizo y contra los muchos enemigos. Desea la libertad viva.

Éstas son pistas que tengo gusto de pasar encendido

excusar mi español te agradecen
Anunciar en cualquier idioma aparte de inglés está contra las reglas del foro.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Originally posted by: CPA
Corporate monopolies are a result of a society's economic model and the regulations that surround it. The economic model is derived from laws established by the DEMICRATICALLY ELECTED officials in the various levels of authority.
Which is why it confuses me that some Americans equate the current corporatocracy with capitalism. I'm all about free market, but the government needs to keep business honest, and a level playing field for all to engage in. Current America is called a free market but in many respects is closer to socialism. A government with too much power and apparently not enough oversight has seen fit to do more than simply create an honest, level playing field but instead picks the winners and the losers in our economy. That's the complete opposite of a free market. Through laws creating subsidies (either in the form of tax benefits or outright subsidies), by continually granting longer and more absurd copyrights and patents, by granting de facto monopolies, the US government is for many industries a free market in name only.

How is that any different than what Chavez has done? Copyright was originally devised as a system to encourage creation of works by promising a limited time monopoly on the work, which would at the end of the copyright become public domain. The twisted souls (if they even have them, I'm not so sure) at Disney have instead given us an essentially endless copyright. The public lived up to their end of the bargain and gave Disney a period of monopoly on Mickey Mouse, but the government and their endless copyright extensions have basically stolen from us what we were supposed to have after that monopoly period was over - free access to public domain materials.

You may think that's nothing compared to taking away someone's business or land, but if you carry it to the point we are now you'll see that corporate thugs (just because they're wearing $2000 suits doesn't mean they're not thugs) such as those from RIAA and MPAA are actively destroying the lives of whoever they want, often with little or no evidence. You can thank corporations for that.

As I said, I'm 100% in favor of the free market, but only when everyone has to play by the rules. Too bad it seems that nowadays corporations don't have to play by the rules.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,050
6
81
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Vic
Doesn't matter what the US Constitution says, "Rights" exist because the People(or whoever has the Power) choose for them to exist.
Wrong again. They exist because they cannot be revoked without force and violence. They're not given by anyone or anything (except God if you believe in that). They simply ARE.
:roll: Unbelievable. Are you that blind or so sucked up into this mode of thinking you do not see what has been going on?
Blinded by and sucked up into what? The concept of inherent rights is the foundation of liberal philosophy. If you believe that rights are granted to the people by government, then you simply are not a liberal. This is not a matter of dispute. Once again, you prove yourself to be the exact opposite of a liberal.[/quote]

Your nonsense aside, and once again, you are no liberal, more like neo-liberal you actually think our rights "simply are" guess what? your right wing buddies have been taking them away at a sickening pace, they are not guaranteed, nor are we entitled to them,they are to be fought for.

Once again, you are no liberal, you disagree and join the right wingers in here in any circle jerk you can join. You are delusional is what you are.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,390
9,214
126
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Vic
Doesn't matter what the US Constitution says, "Rights" exist because the People(or whoever has the Power) choose for them to exist.
Wrong again. They exist because they cannot be revoked without force and violence. They're not given by anyone or anything (except God if you believe in that). They simply ARE.
:roll: Unbelievable. Are you that blind or so sucked up into this mode of thinking you do not see what has been going on?
Blinded by and sucked up into what? The concept of inherent rights is the foundation of liberal philosophy. If you believe that rights are granted to the people by government, then you simply are not a liberal. This is not a matter of dispute. Once again, you prove yourself to be the exact opposite of a liberal.
Your nonsense aside, and once again, you are no liberal, more like neo-liberal you actually think our rights "simply are" guess what? your right wing buddies have been taking them away at a sickening pace, they are not guaranteed, nor are we entitled to them,they are to be fought for.

Once again, you are no liberal, you disagree and join the right wingers in here in any circle jerk you can join. You are delusional is what you are.[/quote]

:roll: is all I have to say to this post by this brainwashed puppet
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,050
6
81
Originally posted by: Vic


:roll: is all I have to say to this post by this brainwashed puppet
Blah blah blah, you are just another right wing tool, same as your buddies eaglekeeper genx and the other crowd you keep in here. liberal my ass, quit twisting words to fit your fairy tales.

You are a neo-liberal free market cultist with a chip on his shoulder, not liberal.

You are about as leftist as your fellow libertarian bill oreilly, with the hot air and delusional worldview to match.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,390
9,214
126
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Vic
:roll: is all I have to say to this post by this brainwashed puppet
Blah blah blah, you are just another right wing tool, liberal my ass, quit twisting words to fit your fairy tales.
I can't twist the self-evident fact that you're further to the left than Stalin which is why you think even real liberals are right wingers.

You just admitted that you don't believe in the concept of inherent rights and that you believe that basic rights are bestowed by government. That's in complete opposition of the most fundamental of classical liberal philosophies, rot. And you not only admitted that, you ridiculed me for it. Quite frankly, I'd say that if it wasn't for your blind ignorance keeping you from reading your own posts, you'd never post here again out of humiliation.


Oh, as for the real right wingers you mention, I have no trouble debating with people of different viewpoints provided that they are intelligent, open-minded, and willing to agree to disagree on some things. I'm not an ideologue or a partisan hack, you're just none of those. If you didn't have your close-minded head up your own ass all the time, you'd see that I frequently disagree with them as well. It's just not so heated and impolite as it is with you, but for the 3 reasons I mentioned.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,050
6
81
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Vic
:roll: is all I have to say to this post by this brainwashed puppet
Blah blah blah, you are just another right wing tool, liberal my ass, quit twisting words to fit your fairy tales.
I can't twist the self-evident fact that you're further to the left than Stalin which is why you think even real liberals are right wingers.

You just admitted that you don't believe in the concept of inherent rights and that you believe that basic rights are bestowed by government. That's in complete opposition of the most fundamental of classical liberal philosophies, rot. And you not only admitted that, you ridiculed me for it. Quite frankly, I'd say that if it wasn't for your blind ignorance keeping you from reading your own posts, you'd never post here again out of humiliation.


Oh, as for the real right wingers you mention, I have no trouble debating with people of different viewpoints provided that they are intelligent, open-minded, and willing to agree to disagree on some things. I'm not an ideologue or a partisan hack, you're just none of those.
Keep believing this crap, problem is noone else does but you. Ever wonder why noone will ever back you but far right wingnuts? Think about it. And it is not just because you have been found to be dishonest again and again.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,390
9,214
126
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Vic
:roll: is all I have to say to this post by this brainwashed puppet
Blah blah blah, you are just another right wing tool, liberal my ass, quit twisting words to fit your fairy tales.
I can't twist the self-evident fact that you're further to the left than Stalin which is why you think even real liberals are right wingers.

You just admitted that you don't believe in the concept of inherent rights and that you believe that basic rights are bestowed by government. That's in complete opposition of the most fundamental of classical liberal philosophies, rot. And you not only admitted that, you ridiculed me for it. Quite frankly, I'd say that if it wasn't for your blind ignorance keeping you from reading your own posts, you'd never post here again out of humiliation.


Oh, as for the real right wingers you mention, I have no trouble debating with people of different viewpoints provided that they are intelligent, open-minded, and willing to agree to disagree on some things. I'm not an ideologue or a partisan hack, you're just none of those.
Keep believing this crap, problem is noone else does but you. Ever wonder why noone will ever back you but far right wingnuts? Think about it. And it is not just because you have been found to be dishonest again and again.
Actually, there are quite a few leftists on this forum that I agree with and converse with. What you should do is seriously consider why you think even moderates are "far right wingnuts."

edit to your edit: Oh yes, please cite on example of my supposed dishonesty, with proof please. At least I'm not the one who edits his every post right after posting it, in order to add some new jab, change meaning, etc. like you do.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,050
6
81
Originally posted by: Vic

Actually, there are quite a few leftists on this forum that I agree with and converse with. What you should do is seriously consider why you think even moderates are "far right wingnuts."

The crowd you keep are far from moderates, they are nothing but former neocons who hide under a independent label now that conservatism is getting kicked to the curb, just like you.

You have already been caught in two lies in this thread. See sig for one.
 

Art Vandelay

Senior member
Jul 30, 2006
642
0
0
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Art Vandelay
That was a great documentary.

Amamos a Sr. Chavez. Nosotros, la gente.

Estoy alegre tú tengo gusto de él.

Chavez es un hombre valiente haberse pegado con lo que él hizo y contra los muchos enemigos. Desea la libertad viva.

Éstas son pistas que tengo gusto de pasar encendido

excusar mi español te agradecen
Anunciar en cualquier idioma aparte de inglés está contra las reglas del foro.
:roll: Wanna ban me? Fine, fits your current American regimen of silencing the opposition.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,050
6
81
Originally posted by: Art Vandelay
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Art Vandelay
That was a great documentary.

Amamos a Sr. Chavez. Nosotros, la gente.

Estoy alegre tú tengo gusto de él.

Chavez es un hombre valiente haberse pegado con lo que él hizo y contra los muchos enemigos. Desea la libertad viva.

Éstas son pistas que tengo gusto de pasar encendido

excusar mi español te agradecen
Anunciar en cualquier idioma aparte de inglés está contra las reglas del foro.
:roll: Wanna ban me? Fine, fits your current American regimen of silencing the opposition.
Just ignore him, he is a hothead and in no way represents a american, but more the worst a now luckily maranialized part has become

los barriles vacíos hacen la mayoría del ruido
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,390
9,214
126
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Vic

Actually, there are quite a few leftists on this forum that I agree with and converse with. What you should do is seriously consider why you think even moderates are "far right wingnuts."

The crowd you keep are far from moderates, they are nothing but former neocons who hide under a independent label now that conservatism is getting kicked to the curb, just like you.
Pal, I got almost 6 years of posting history on this forum. You are more than welcome to search way way back as far as you want to see if I've ever changed my stripes.

I see your conspiracy paranoia is just as strong as ever. Beware! Counter-revolutionaries are everywhere! :Q

:p
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,390
9,214
126
Originally posted by: Art Vandelay
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Art Vandelay
That was a great documentary.

Amamos a Sr. Chavez. Nosotros, la gente.

Estoy alegre tú tengo gusto de él.

Chavez es un hombre valiente haberse pegado con lo que él hizo y contra los muchos enemigos. Desea la libertad viva.

Éstas son pistas que tengo gusto de pasar encendido

excusar mi español te agradecen
Anunciar en cualquier idioma aparte de inglés está contra las reglas del foro.
:roll: Wanna ban me? Fine, fits your current American regimen of silencing the opposition.
Speaking of paranoia, I'm not a mod.

And in case you don't actually read threads, my MO is to stir "the opposition" into talking as much as possible, for obvious reasons.

edit: nice to know that I got that right enough to stir up a response. My written Spanish is rusty as hell.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY