No activists showed up near Orlando for rally

[Jhhnn]

yet i'm supposed to be outraged when a gang-banging robbery suspect it killed in a confrontation with a cop.

Where did the "gang banging" attribution come from, other than it being what you want to believe? I suppose you need something, considering that it started over a pack of cheap cigars. People deserve to die over that? Really?

 

[fskimospy]

Blacks make up 13%? of the population yet make up over 50% of the murders. Yes the frequency is concerning as it leads me to believe people and the media are not interesting in solving any real issues regarding black struggle.

I have a 16 year old Bi-racial Son, I'm the one that has to explain this stuff to him.

Right, so frequency, not 'black on black crime'. Black people commit crimes against people of their own race at comparable proportions to other races.

The issue is crime, not black on black crime.

 

[lotus503]

Where did the "gang banging" attribution come from, other than it being what you want to believe? I suppose you need something, considering that it started over a pack of cheap cigars. People deserve to die over that? Really?

I did read he was a gang member, as I have stated before I did not fully research everything related to the case so that could be incorrect.

Noone deserves to be shot and killed for stealing, however its indicative of high risk behavior that's leads to bad outcomes.

The overreaching point over several posts is that with all of the strife within the black community in present day, everyone is outraged at what may have been a good or a bad shoot depending on what evidence you want to believe.

Meanwhile the far bigger issues in the black community go on unaddressed.

 

[Victorian Gray]

This is too funny, guess no one in Orlando cares.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...h-police-brutality-orange-20141201-story.html

Operation American Spring? Wasn't as funny?

 

[lotus503]

Right, so frequency, not 'black on black crime'. Black people commit crimes against people of their own race at comparable proportions to other races.

The issue is crime, not black on black crime.

You and I usually have similar viewpoints on stuff, but we are just not going to agree given the statistics.

Its becomes and issue when most black people murdered are murdered at the hands of other black people and that black murders make up over 50% of the murders in the country while they are 13% of the population.

If you don't get the problem with those numbers we cant have legit dialogue.

 

[fskimospy]

You and I usually have similar viewpoints on stuff, but we are just not going to agree given the statistics.

Its becomes and issue when most black people murdered are murdered at the hands of other black people and that black murders make up over 50% of the murders in the country while they are 13% of the population.

If you don't get the problem with those numbers we cant have legit dialogue.

I get the problem with the second number, but the first number is true of all races in the US. It simply is a fact of life, it has nothing to do with black people.

 

[lotus503]

I get the problem with the second number, but the first number is true of all races in the US. It simply is a fact of life, it has nothing to do with black people.

I agree, but the second number is what makes the first troubling.

 

[fskimospy]

I agree, but the second number is what makes the first troubling.

I have to say that I wouldn't find it less troubling if block people were only killing whites, Asians, and Hispanics.

I hate the term because it implies that the black community is somehow special in victimizing itself in a self destructive way. All communities victimize themselves because, well, the people nearby are the easiest to victimize.

Crime in the black community is a huge problem, but not because of the target.

 

[glenn1]

I have to say that I wouldn't find it less troubling if block people were only killing whites, Asians, and Hispanics.

I hate the term because it implies that the black community is somehow special in victimizing itself in a self destructive way. All communities victimize themselves because, well, the people nearby are the easiest to victimize.

Crime in the black community is a huge problem, but not because of the target.

Quantity has a quality of its own; I think that's what he's getting at. It's not "better" or "worse" that blacks are killing other blacks primarily (and ditto for other races) it's that blacks are doing it at rates grossly higher than other racial and ethnic groups. They are also slightly overrepresented in those who commit murder rather than victimized by it, 7x whites to commit vs. 6x whites to be victims. If you feel that doesn't rise to the level of blacks "victimizing themselves in a self-destructive way" be my guest but it's hard to say with a straight face that someone else is wrong if they believe the opposite.

 

[Double Trouble]

I agree with eskimospy, the target of the crime isn't really the issue, the frequency of crime is. People tend to commit crimes against those around them, this is true for every group. Blacks don't commit crimes against other blacks more than whites do against other whites. The problem isn't the target, the problem is the frequency of crimes, regardless of victim.

 

[JockoJohnson]

Noone deserves to be shot and killed for stealing, however its indicative of high risk behavior that's leads to bad outcomes.

He wasn't shot and killed for stealing. He was shot and killed for supposedly assaulting a police officer and trying to take his gun. Big difference.

 

[PokerGuy]

I suppose you need something, considering that it started over a pack of cheap cigars. People deserve to die over that? Really?

"people" didn't die over that. Brown didn't die because he stole sigars or robbed the place, he died because he attacked a cop and tried to take his gun.

 

[lotus503]

I have to say that I wouldn't find it less troubling if block people were only killing whites, Asians, and Hispanics.

I hate the term because it implies that the black community is somehow special in victimizing itself in a self destructive way. All communities victimize themselves because, well, the people nearby are the easiest to victimize.

Crime in the black community is a huge problem, but not because of the target.

I agree with you on the face of it. However when were presented with the idea that police killing black people is a big problem. Then it leads me to consider that black people killing black people is a much bigger problem. Its when presented with that scenario who is killing who becomes more relevant.

 

[jhbball]

This is too funny, guess no one in Orlando cares.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...h-police-brutality-orange-20141201-story.html

I guess police aggression isn't a problem! Thanks for sharing, shit kicker.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
I do wonder why cases like the kid in East New York who was shot in the stairwell aren't the catalyst for things like this. That's about as clear a case as you can get of an unreasonable police shooting.

I read the article you posted, most of it twice.

It's definitely an inappropriate police shooting. But I'm not sure in what way because there's no indication of how or why the cop shot. I'm not clear on what should be protested.

- Was it an accidental discharge caused when the cop tried to open a door? The article mentions that the victim may have been hit by a ricochet.

- Was it an accidental discharge caused by the cop being startled or bumped by the victim?

- Or did the cop shoot him out of fear (like an impulse/reaction)?

I noticed the second officer didn't know what happened. While the article didn't say so explicitly it sounds like words were never traded etc. between the officer and the victim. IMO, that reduces the likelihood of an intentional shot and, therefore, any racism.

I don't know what to make of this; what kind of example it is. I just know it's tragic.

Might be a good idea to have a police policy where you don't put your finger on the trigger until you're ready to shoot (have clearly identified the target etc). That's S.O.P. anyway, at least for those of us who are not police.

If it's as dangerous a duty as the article indicates wouldn't those patrol officers be wearing vests? If so, I see no real reason to walk around with your finger on the trigger. I'd like to know what kind of firearm they used. They should at least be using a model with a grip safety.

I do agree that the police quickly accepting blame likely forestalled outrage.

Fern

 

[ivwshane]

"people" didn't die over that. Brown didn't die because he stole sigars or robbed the place, he died because he attacked a cop and tried to take his gun.

He attacked a cop or he was defending himself from a cop? He tried to take Wilson's gun? Or wilson fired at brown at a close distance?

You see, none of what you said is based on fact. It's based on speculation and testimony from a persons who's way of life was on the line.

Had it been fact we would have had video evidence of brown attacking wilson first or we would have had every witness telling the same story. It would be a fact if finger printing was even done on Wilson's gun and browns finger prints were found on it.

Instead the facts are:
We don't know what started the "tussle".
We don't know if brown was going for Wilson's gun.
We don't know if browns hands were up.
We don't know if brown was charging wilson.

We don't know any of that because A) there are conflicting eye witness testimony and no proper cross examination was done B) we don't have the physical evidence because the evidence wasn't checked for finger prints.

So when you or anyone claims to know why brown was killed (other than because he was shot), I will call bullshit.


That being said, I get your point. Sadly, if people don't think brown should be the martyr we have plenty of other options to consider. A 12 year old playing outside perhaps? A walmart customer talking on the phone? How about a guy killed for selling cigarettes? Take your pick, the message is the same regardless.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I guess police aggression isn't a problem! Thanks for sharing, shit kicker.

Ahhh the poor baby took offense to someone posting about people not showing up. Guess no one in Orlando felt it was worth their time, maybe they learned from the Trayvon Martin case and didn't get worked up over the Michael Brown case.

 

[PokerGuy]

He attacked a cop or he was defending himself from a cop? He tried to take Wilson's gun? Or wilson fired at brown at a close distance?

<rehash snipped>

There's already a whole thread outlining all that information, no need to rehash it here.

The question was if stealing cigars warranted him getting killed, and I pointed out he was not killed for stealing cigars.

Sadly, if people don't think brown should be the martyr we have plenty of other options to consider. A 12 year old playing outside perhaps? A walmart customer talking on the phone? How about a guy killed for selling cigarettes? Take your pick, the message is the same regardless.

No, I think picking the right case to support a movement is important. Picking Brown as the case just makes me want to turn away and say "shut up, there's absolutely no indication anything incorrect was done in that case". You'd need to find a case where there is clear evidence of wrongdoing by the police, not just an unfortunate situation where someone got hurt or killed.

 

[Sulaco]

He attacked a cop or he was defending himself from a cop? He tried to take Wilson's gun? Or wilson fired at brown at a close distance?

You see, none of what you said is based on fact. It's based on speculation and testimony from a persons who's way of life was on the line.

Had it been fact we would have had video evidence of brown attacking wilson first or we would have had every witness telling the same story. It would be a fact if finger printing was even done on Wilson's gun and browns finger prints were found on it.

Instead the facts are:
We don't know what started the "tussle".
We don't know if brown was going for Wilson's gun.
We don't know if browns hands were up.
We don't know if brown was charging wilson.

We don't know any of that because A) there are conflicting eye witness testimony and no proper cross examination was done B) we don't have the physical evidence because the evidence wasn't checked for finger prints.

So when you or anyone claims to know why brown was killed (other than because he was shot), I will call bullshit.


That being said, I get your point. Sadly, if people don't think brown should be the martyr we have plenty of other options to consider. A 12 year old playing outside perhaps? A walmart customer talking on the phone? How about a guy killed for selling cigarettes? Take your pick, the message is the same regardless.

Oh dear God, Shane, get over it and get a life.

We "know" insofar as anyone not physically present or with indisputable video footage can "know", that the overwhelming physical, ballistic, and eye witness testimony supports the facts that you see assiduously dance around. Period.

We get it. You took the wrong side in this mess. You threw your weight and considerable daily post count behind a cause and narrative that proved empty, and now you likely feel like a dunce. You looked the fool, and got called on it, and life goes on.

Continually beating the "I'm not saying he murdered him, BUT...!" drum in a quaint effort to distance yourself from your original bellicose devil's advocacy pronouncements fool exactly no one.

 

[jhbball]

Ahhh the poor baby took offense to someone posting about people not showing up. Guess no one in Orlando felt it was worth their time, maybe they learned from the Trayvon Martin case and didn't get worked up over the Michael Brown case.

Awww, poor little ignorant hick from Texas.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Instead the facts are:
We don't know what started the "tussle".
We don't know if brown was going for Wilson's gun.
We don't know if browns hands were up.
We don't know if brown was charging wilson.

You don't know that about 2000 years ago the living embodiment of God didn't come to earth and suffer and die for your sins. I tend to think the latter makes more sense than your "We don't knows"

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Awww, poor little ignorant hick from Texas.

LMAO!!! I'm not originally from Texas. So it appears that you're the poor ignorant dufus.

 

[Subyman]

Perhaps people are figuring out that the "cause" of Brown was a huckster's setup. There's cause for concern about abuse, but Brown isn't a good poster child, quite the reverse.

Yup. The evidence showed it was a clean shot. All the lying witnesses about him running away and getting shot in the back stoked the fires. No evidence of being shot in the back. Robbed store, strutted down the middle of the road, ran up to cop car and started punching the seated cop, shots fired, ran away, chased, stopped and charged the cop, more shots fired. Sounds like a scary situation for the police officer.

I mean, people are using a dude that robbed a store, punched the clerk, and punched a cop all within 10 minutes as their poster child for an abusive system. Crazy.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Blacks make up 13%? of the population yet make up over 50% of the murders. Yes the frequency is concerning as it leads me to believe people and the media are not interesting in solving any real issues regarding black struggle.

I have a 16 year old Bi-racial Son, I'm the one that has to explain this stuff to him.

Is eskimospy your child? Because your lessons aren't working. I suggest reinforcement.

:whiste:

 

[jhbball]

LMAO!!! I'm not originally from Texas. So it appears that you're the poor ignorant dufus.

Who cares? You moved some place you obviously fit in. We get it, you hate black people.