NJ Unions in Court Fighting Pension Cuts.

[Mai72]

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/01/nj_unions_back_in_court_today_fighting_christies_p.html

It all started with Governor Christie Todd Whitman in the 90s. The pension system has been underfunded. Now, there is nothing left and the unions are upset. I don;t know what they expect. I feel sorry for the people who contributed to the pension system, but the money isn't there. The state is broke.

What's the solution? Is NJ the next Detroit?

 

[ivwshane]

From what I've heard, New Jersey is in the crapper, economically speaking and Chris Christie isn't doing anything to help the situation either, other than to continue with the failed republican economic policies of trickle down.

 

[Mai72]

From what I've heard, New Jersey is in the crapper, economically speaking and Chris Christie isn't doing anything to help the situation either, other that to continue with the failed republican economic policies of trickle down.

Christie hasn't done squat. He's getting ready to announce his bid for the presidency which should be amusing. I think I have a better shot at becoming the next president.

 

[Double Trouble]

From what I've heard, New Jersey is in the crapper, economically speaking and Chris Christie isn't doing anything to help the situation either, other than to continue with the failed republican economic policies of trickle down.

Yeah, it's all on Christie, I'm sure the solid blue control over both chambers of the NJ legislature since basically forever has nothing to do with it. Neither does the gaming sector going into the tank, or any number of other things, it's Christie.

At some point someone has to pay the piper. Underfunding the pensions is a dumb move, but it was pretty much guaranteed to happen given the unsustainable public sector employee benefits and pensions. I don't think NJ is really that different than many other places either, it's just a matter of time.

 

[ivwshane]

Yeah, it's all on Christie, I'm sure the solid blue control over both chambers of the NJ legislature since basically forever has nothing to do with it. Neither does the gaming sector going into the tank, or any number of other things, it's Christie.

At some point someone has to pay the piper. Underfunding the pensions is a dumb move, but it was pretty much guaranteed to happen given the unsustainable public sector employee benefits and pensions. I don't think NJ is really that different than many other places either, it's just a matter of time.

Try re reading my post I didn't blame Christie, I said he isn't making things better and that's a fact.

 

[Double Trouble]

Try re reading my post I didn't blame Christie, I said he isn't making things better and that's a fact.

If you didn't blame Christie, why single him out as not making anything better when the legislature has been in solid blue hands forever? Why talk about continuing failed trickle down policies when he obviously can't unilaterally either implement or remove such policies?

I don't get it, such blind partisan hatred seems to be rampant these days.

 

[ivwshane]

If you didn't blame Christie, why single him out as not making anything better when the legislature has been in solid blue hands forever? Why talk about continuing failed trickle down policies when he obviously can't unilaterally either implement or remove such policies?

I don't get it, such blind partisan hatred seems to be rampant these days.

I don't know maybe because Christie is the governor and he's the one that sets the policy and the policy he has set is one of failure. Is he implementing liberal/democrat policies? No? Then guess what guy?!


I didn't realize posting facts was a form of partisan hatred.

 

[Double Trouble]

I don't know maybe because Christie is the governor and he's the one that sets the policy and the policy he has set is one of failure.

I admit I'm no expert on New Jersey government, but I find it hard to believe that the governor of the state can single handedly set the policies for the state without legislative involvement.

Is he implementing liberal/democrat policies? No? Then guess what guy?!

Can you explain what you think the legislature in NJ actually does, if you think Christie can simply set direction and implement "failed trickle down policies" by himself?

 

[Slew Foot]

Pensions are underfunded everywhere. Politicians get elected by promising shit they know they cant deliver but theyll be out of office anyway when the bill comes so they dont give a fuck.

 

[ivwshane]

I admit I'm no expert on New Jersey government, but I find it hard to believe that the governor of the state can single handedly set the policies for the state without legislative involvement.



Can you explain what you think the legislature in NJ actually does, if you think Christie can simply set direction and implement "failed trickle down policies" by himself?

You can read up on what's been going on, here:
http://www.njspotlight.com/stories/...attle-over-future-of-nj-pension-system/?p=all


You'll note Christies broken promises and abandoned compromises he made early on, you will also note that he has already declined democrat proposals to attempt to address the pension issue and his projected budgets (that pretty much are par for the course for republicans--see the changes they are requesting the CBO make for budget forecasting) were way off and inflated which exacerbated the problem.

You can look up more of Christies failed republican policies like cutting corporate taxes as well as cutting education. Let's not get into his failure at getting his state back to 100% health after Katrina with what seems like he was playing politics with Katrina money.


Feel free to pick anything off this list:

http://www.onenewjersey.org/christie-by-the-numbers/

 

[nickqt]

You can read up on what's been going on, here. You'll note Christies broken promises and abandoning of a compromise he made early on, you will also note that he has already declined democrat proposals and his projected budgets (that pretty much are par for the course for republicans--see the changes they are requesting the CBO make for budget forecasting) were way off and inflated.

You can look up more of Christies failed republican policies like cutting corporate taxes as well as cutting education. Let's not get into his failure at getting his state back to 100% health after Katrina with what seems like he was playing politics with Katrina money.


Feel free to pick anything off this list:

http://www.onenewjersey.org/christie-by-the-numbers/

Facts and observable reality are boring.

Listen up, libruul.

Chris Christie is a great man. He has to be so, because he hugged Obama and can bench his weight in oreos.

 

[KB]

This is happening everywhere. Here in Maryland each governor promises to fund the pensions next year and they never do. In fact they often steal from pension payments to balance the budget. In order to keep the pyrimad scheme going they fight to add more workers to the payrolls, thus adding more contributors to the fund to keep paying for the current retirees. Eventually it won't be enough and the unions will act angry and surprised when even they must know what's going on by now.

http://marylandreporter.com/2014/01...-100m-in-promised-payment-to-retirement-fund/

 

[Sonikku]

Pensions are bad anyways and claiming one makes you a socialist.

 

[Anarchist420]

public sector workers getting pensions is ridiculous. instead of giving pensions, the government could just not income or property tax retirees.

 

[DrPizza]

Pensions are underfunded everywhere. Politicians get elected by promising shit they know they cant deliver but theyll be out of office anyway when the bill comes so they dont give a fuck.

No, they aren't underfunded everywhere. E.g., NY Teachers retirement system. Often held up as an example of a well run pension system. I know that for quite a few years, I was contributing a decent percentage of my income to it, and my employer still has to contribute a percentage of my income to it; it's considered part of my benefits package. You can consider it to be a sort of forced 401k type of thing - instead of making, say, $70k/year, your $70k per year is divided - $60k goes to you, $10k goes toward your retirement fund. My district doesn't get the ability to say, "hey, we're going to be short on our budget. Let's not pay into the pension fund, and just make up for it later." Doing so would be the most idiotic thing in the world = legislators all over the country.

And, the pension fund is getting a very good return on its investments; and management of the fund is a lot less than the majority of 401ks.

 

[shady28]

The reason many state pensions are in trouble is really straightforward, alluded to in some previous posts.

States don't have to adhere to ERISA regulations for their employees. That means that they can do all kinds of things with pension funds that, if a corporation were to do those things, would have the execs wearing orange suits behind bars.

What happens is completely obvious. In a good year, the state takes the 'extra' the pension fund has and uses it to buy shit. Then when there's a streak of bad years, the pension funds are screwed. By that time, the politician(s) who did the dirty deed is long gone.

 

[brianmanahan]

Pensions are bad anyways and claiming one makes you a socialist.

i am vested in 2 of them right now

hoping to stick with my current company for the next 15-20 years and get like 30-40$k per year from pensions when i retire

both of these places currently have very good pension funding

 

[Mai72]

The reason many state pensions are in trouble is really straightforward, alluded to in some previous posts.

States don't have to adhere to ERISA regulations for their employees. That means that they can do all kinds of things with pension funds that, if a corporation were to do those things, would have the execs wearing orange suits behind bars.

What happens is completely obvious. In a good year, the state takes the 'extra' the pension fund has and uses it to buy shit. Then when there's a streak of bad years, the pension funds are screwed. By that time, the politician(s) who did the dirty deed is long gone.

So what happens to the people who have put into their pensions? Are they able to collect anything? Are they screwed? Is it another Detroit? Do they raise taxes?

What's the solution?

 

[boomerang]

So what happens to the people who have put into their pensions? Are they able to collect anything? Are they screwed? Is it another Detroit? Do they raise taxes?

What's the solution?

I'm not sure if the PBGF would come into play for non private sector workers or not. Regardless, it's broke too and living on borrowed time. I skimmed the article and didn't see anything about these workers contributing any of their own funds towards a pension. But yes, it could shake out like Detroit did and they will collect a reduced amount. It's too early to be concerned about it because the problem now is that the fund is underfunded, not on a path to insolvency in the immediate future. Regardless, pensions are going the way of the dodo and for reasons that are based in, are you ready - math. You can't escape the math.

Everything I've read talked of an exodus of population from New Jersey. Raising taxes? Sure, I guess it's an option if the state wants to see still more leave.

 

[Jhhnn]

A big part of what's wrong with NJ is that they get a low return on federal tax contributions, sometimes the lowest in the nation. That's 60-65%, iirc, as compared to others who receive up to 200% return. The cumulative effect is quite large.

It's also important to realize that the workers & their unions have lived up to their side of the bargain. Otherwise, they wouldn't be eligible for pensions at all.

http://visualizingeconomics.com/blog/2010/02/17/federal-taxes-paidreceived-for-each-state

 

[Jhhnn]

So what happens to the people who have put into their pensions? Are they able to collect anything? Are they screwed? Is it another Detroit? Do they raise taxes?

What's the solution?

A big part of the answer is to reverse privatization, to bring more workers under the pension umbrella. Pensions have always depended on contributions from working members, so reducing their numbers just makes it worse.

W/O pensions, we'll see the current trend of older workers keeping their jobs intensify, much to the detriment of younger workers.

 

[Greenman]

The bottom line is that city and state governments have been offering very generous benefits that they don't have the money to pay for. This has been obvious for years now, but the problem never gets addressed, the goal is always to get through one more year and worry about it later. My guess is that in a few more years the Feds will bail all of them out and simply add it too the national debt. No one will worry about that until it hits a hundred trillion dollars, so we should have 6 or 8 years of smooth sailing.

 

[MagickMan]

I don't know maybe because Christie is the governor and he's the one that sets the policy and the policy he has set is one of failure. Is he implementing liberal/democrat policies? No? Then guess what guy?!


I didn't realize posting facts was a form of partisan hatred.

"You can't implement policy when neither chamber of congress will work with you", isn't that what you and other Dems have been bitching about with Obama? So it's a fair assessment for one but not the other?

Get your head out of your f*cking ass.

 

[Double Trouble]

You can read up on what's been going on, here:
http://www.njspotlight.com/stories/...attle-over-future-of-nj-pension-system/?p=all


You'll note Christies broken promises and abandoned compromises he made early on, you will also note that he has already declined democrat proposals to attempt to address the pension issue and his projected budgets (that pretty much are par for the course for republicans--see the changes they are requesting the CBO make for budget forecasting) were way off and inflated which exacerbated the problem.

I read that article and it's mostly partisan bullshit. The money to fund these things has to come from somewhere. If there is a serious budget shortfall, choices have to be made on what needs cut. The democrat's proposal to close the shortfall with a new millionaire tax is also complete bullshit, that's just not going to fly, and even if it did, it would not close the gap.

You can look up more of Christies failed republican policies like cutting corporate taxes as well as cutting education.

The governor can cut taxes without the legislature? I always thought tax law would need to be changed by the legislature?

Let's not get into his failure at getting his state back to 100% health after Katrina with what seems like he was playing politics with Katrina money.

Katrina money?

I understand, you have an irrational hate for republicans. Maybe it's deserved, maybe it's not, but your irrational blaming of one party is part of the problem, it accomplishes nothing.

 

[Darwin333]

You can look up more of Christies failed republican policies like cutting corporate taxes as well as cutting education. Let's not get into his failure at getting his state back to 100% health after Katrina with what seems like he was playing politics with Katrina money.

How much damage could Katrina have possibly done to NJ???