NJ gov christie vs the teachers unions

[Hacp]

There is one thing I would like to add as far the teachers union goes as well. They are doing their job. NJ public schools have been among the best in the country for decades. Top 5. Now NJ teachers are among the top paid, but they are also producing top results. NJ is one of the few states where a good portion of public schools revival even top private schools for quality of education. So while both Christie and the teachers union each have legitimate arguments, this is not a case of these folks not producing results that coincide with their pay. So thats another reason why I am little shocked at this dogmatic attack. Find some middle ground and move on. For once be a leader......

And people don't get pay cuts in the private sector even with good results? It happens. The reason why Christie is forced to do all the other cuts is because the unions won't agree to a pay CUT. Cut everyone's pay by 10% and freeze the pension fund. Only union members these days can enjoy the pension fund. Everyone else in the private sector doesn't have one.

 

[StageLeft]

NY needs him desperately.

 

[classy]

And people don't get pay cuts in the private sector even with good results? It happens. The reason why Christie is forced to do all the other cuts is because the unions won't agree to a pay CUT. Cut everyone's pay by 10% and freeze the pension fund. Only union members these days can enjoy the pension fund. Everyone else in the private sector doesn't have one.

Your argument is silly. The republican talking points are old. You flap about unions, but I don't see the flap about the richest in the state not paying their share. Maybe the 3rd time will be the charm, because if he does no better, he's gone after one term.

 

[nick1985]

:thumbsup: for Christie

 

[ciba]

Your argument is silly. The republican talking points are old. You flap about unions, but I don't see the flap about the richest in the state not paying their share. Maybe the 3rd time will be the charm, because if he does no better, he's gone after one term.

Assuming the "rich" are paying the highest marginal rates and greatest actual tax, how do you reconcile the claim that they aren't paying their "fair share" already?

How do you arrive at what is a "fair share." I can see two legitimate approaches: First, to pay based on the benefits derived from government - how would you calculate this? Otherwise, calculate it on the services consumed; I believe this is less equitable, but easier to calculate.

 

[Hacp]

Your argument is silly. The republican talking points are old. You flap about unions, but I don't see the flap about the richest in the state not paying their share. Maybe the 3rd time will be the charm, because if he does no better, he's gone after one term.

The rich are already paying their fair share. They pay more than anyone else. The public employees on the other hand pay less taxes than they take in tax money. If everyone was a public employee how would states raise revenue? It couldn't. States need private business to finance the public pensions and outsized salaries.

 

[RedCOMET]

Why? I dont understand what you think the requirements of a union are? Uneducated workers? Easy to get jobs?

I have no idea... It just seems that other professions don't need unions to protect their interest.

My google-fu isn't so hot tonight... but I did find this article about the NYC's "Rubber Rooms." Now this seems to be a step in the right direction.. but it seems a shame that they had a wasteful system in place to begin with.

I'll have to to bug my gf to see if she has any info with regards to NJ to see if they have or had a similar system.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/15/national/main6399669.shtml
NYC to Stop Paying Teachers in "Rubber Rooms"

AP) Hundreds of New York City teachers who are paid full salaries to do nothing while they await disciplinary hearings will be released from the city's "rubber rooms" this fall, officials announced Thursday.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg and the teachers' union announced a deal to reassign most of the teachers to administrative or non-classroom work while their cases are pending.

About 650 educators, more than 500 of them teachers, are in the teacher-reassignment centers, costing the city tens of millions of dollars a year, including $30 million in salaries, officials said.

The teachers generally spend months or even years in the so-called rubber rooms playing Scrabble, reading or surfing the Internet while still collecting full salaries of $70,000 a year or more. The nickname refers to the padded cells of asylums, and teachers have said the name is fitting, since some of the inhabitants can become unstable.

The city has blamed union rules that make it difficult to fire teachers, but some teachers assigned to rubber rooms say they have been singled out because they blew the whistle on a principal who was fudging test scores.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Your argument is silly. The republican talking points are old. You flap about unions, but I don't see the flap about the richest in the state not paying their share. Maybe the 3rd time will be the charm, because if he does no better, he's gone after one term.

you really don't understand, do you?

the teachers unions are bankrupting the state. their benefits package is already an unsustainable model, made worse by the recession which killed a ton of tax revenue.

please read the link in this thread about the rich leaving MD because they thought that by raising taxes on the rich, they would be able to close the budget gap.
it made things worse because the rich fled the state.

and don't even mention FAIR.
taxes are already among the highest in the nation for the rich. how is that fair? just because they make more than you right?

may i ask, which union do you belong to?

 

[DrPizza]

It's really too bad more politicians aren't like him.

Christie had good reason not to raise taxes on the rich, because it worked so well for Maryland.

Did some millionaires move out of Maryland? Sure. But not 1/3 of them. They had 3000 returns of over 1 million dollars. It's pretty ridiculous to ignore that a tanking economy wasn't the primary reason for a substantial drop in the number of returns over 1 million dollars, vs. moving out of the state.

If you disagree, show that there are now a huge surplus of homes for sale in the typical range of prices that only millionaires could afford.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Did some millionaires move out of Maryland? Sure. But not 1/3 of them. They had 3000 returns of over 1 million dollars. It's pretty ridiculous to ignore that a tanking economy wasn't the primary reason for a substantial drop in the number of returns over 1 million dollars, vs. moving out of the state.

If you disagree, show that there are now a huge surplus of homes for sale in the typical range of prices that only millionaires could afford.

i agree the economy has a lot to do with it, but i also believe a lot have left.
i feel i'm being unfairly taxed in NJ and have thoughts of leaving and i'm far from rich.