Nikon D40X or Nikon D60?

[JE78]

My wife has been waiting a DSLR camera for a while now, we have a point and shoot which I thought was good enough but the more and more I see pictures from a DSLR the more I think it would be nice to have one as well. I did some research and found that the Nikon D60 is recommended for first time DSLR users. Its also in my price range which is about $500. I started looking on Craigs List to see if there were any bargains I could find and found a Nikon D40x with some extras for $400 The extra's included were:

Nikor 18 - 55mm f3.5 - 5.6 G II lens. Extra batt. is heavy duty. Set of three closeup lenses as well as circular polarizer filter, UV protector, enhancing filter, and 6 point star filter, and a Nikon Camera bag.

I saw a comparison chart of the D40x vs D60 but since i'm pretty new to DSLR's I wasn't sure if the updated features were worth the $100 which is why i'm posting my question here. Thanks in advanced.

 

[soydios]

Originally posted by: JE78
Nikor 18 - 55mm f3.5 - 5.6 G II lens. Extra batt. is heavy duty. Set of three closeup lenses as well as circular polarizer filter, UV protector, enhancing filter, and 6 point star filter, and a Nikon Camera bag.

"heavy duty" battery sounds suspicious. An OEM EN-EL9 is only $40, while most knockoffs are $30-$40. Buy an OEM spare battery if you need it, though odds are that you will only need the one included battery.

"closeup lenses" just attach to the front filter threads and severely degrade image quality. probably not worth paying for.

"enhancing filter" sounds suspicious. circular polarizer and UV protector are useful. "6 point star filter" sounds gimmicky.

Originally posted by: JE78
I saw a comparison chart of the D40x vs D60 but since i'm pretty new to DSLR's I wasn't sure if the updated features were worth the $100 which is why i'm posting my question here. Thanks in advanced.

http://www.digitalreview.ca/co...-D60-Digital-SLR.shtml
the key new features I see that the D60 has over the D40x are the electronic rangefinder, which tells you how far and in what direction you are out of focus when focusing manually (other Nikon DSLRs just show you the green dot when you're in focus), and the anti-dust sensor features. otherwise the two are exactly identical, including all the important photographic bits (sensor, autofocus module, metering module, viewfinder).
if you only sometimes use manual focus, and rarely will be swapping lenses, then save some money and get the D40x. get it with the AF-s 18-55 f/3.5-5.6G (VR) DX, AF-s 55-200mm f/4.0-5.6G (VR) DX, and the new AF-s 35mm f/1.8G DX.

or you could always buy a used D80 instead of a D40x/D60. it's got the same sensor and metering, but vastly superior viewfinder and autofocus. the D80 is all-around a far more capable body, but it is bigger and heavier.

 

[JE78]

Thanks, the link you posted is the same one I read. The guy I would be buying the D40x from knows his stuff, he said he's been into photography for over 25 years and that the D40x was his first DSLR which also leads me to think he has alot of hours on it. I'm leaning towards the D60.

 

[aatf510]

If you look harder, you should be able to find a brand new D60 kit for close to $400 (hint: our very own hot deals forum!)

Also notice that when you buy a D60 kit, it will come with a newer and better 18-55mm VR kit lens compare to what you get with that guy's D40x kit lens.

The Nikon D60 is indeed a very beginner-friendly DSLR, and yet it's powerful enough to create some stunning images.

 

[JE78]

Thanks toattett i'm sold on the D60 but I guess i'll hold off for a few days and see if I can find a good deal on one.

 

[troytime]

closeup filters don't 'severely degrade image quality" unless they're stacked
do they degrade IQ? yes, severely, no

i've been using the cheap tiffen ones with excellent results
they're no dedicated macro lens, but they're worth having

 

[JE78]

Thanks, there doesn't seem to be anything in the hot deals forum, the link from buy.com is dead. I'll hold off for a few week to see if anything comes up but if not i'll just order from Newegg.

 

[JE78]

Just a quick question, I was talking to a friend who just bought a D90. She told me that the reason she went with the more expensive D90 than the D60 is because th D60 didn't have auto-focus. I checked the specs on Newegg and it says "Focusing: Autofocus with built-in SWM and manual focus" but I just wanted to double check.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: JE78
Just a quick question, I was talking to a friend who just bought a D90. She told me that the reason she went with the more expensive D90 than the D60 is because th D60 didn't have auto-focus. I checked the specs on Newegg and it says "Focusing: Autofocus with built-in SWM and manual focus" but I just wanted to double check.

The D60 (and D40) do not have in-body drive motors. For autofocus, you need to buy lenses that have the AF motor. There are enough of those lenses available that most consumer needs are pretty well covered.

 

[JE78]

Thanks, I read reviews on newegg and everyone talks about auto focus so I assume that the AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR Lens has auto focus built in?

 

[soydios]

Originally posted by: JE78
Thanks, I read reviews on newegg and everyone talks about auto focus so I assume that the AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR Lens has auto focus built in?

"AF-S" or "AF-I" means that the lens has a focus motor. Lenses that just say "AF" have a screw drive which requires a focus motor in the camera body.

 

[JE78]

thanks for clearing that up for me

 

[Munky]

I'd recommend a D40 instead of the D40x or D60. It costs a bit less, has a faster flash x-sync speed and better light sensitivity. While it's "only" 6 Mpixels, most people wouldn't need more unless you're making huge poster-sized prints. The only real advantage the D60 has is adaptive dynamic range, which helps in high-contrast scenes. The D40x doesn't have this feature.

edit: the D60 also comes with a newer 18-55mm kit lens with VR (image stabilization). I bought the newer lens for my D40, and the VR helps a lot when taking dim-light photos.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: munky
I'd recommend a D40 instead of the D40x or D60. It costs a bit less, has a faster flash x-sync speed and better light sensitivity. While it's "only" 6 Mpixels, most people wouldn't need more unless you're making huge poster-sized prints. The only real advantage the D60 has is adaptive dynamic range, which helps in high-contrast scenes. The D40x doesn't have this feature.

edit: the D60 also comes with a newer 18-55mm kit lens with VR (image stabilization). I bought the newer lens for my D40, and the VR helps a lot when taking dim-light photos.

better light sensitivity? according to what? and don't forget that pixel level tests are not image quality tests.

and i guess no one would ever want to crop?

that sensor score is so much better for the D40. oh, wait, it's not.

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: munky
I'd recommend a D40 instead of the D40x or D60. It costs a bit less, has a faster flash x-sync speed and better light sensitivity. While it's "only" 6 Mpixels, most people wouldn't need more unless you're making huge poster-sized prints. The only real advantage the D60 has is adaptive dynamic range, which helps in high-contrast scenes. The D40x doesn't have this feature.

edit: the D60 also comes with a newer 18-55mm kit lens with VR (image stabilization). I bought the newer lens for my D40, and the VR helps a lot when taking dim-light photos.

better light sensitivity? according to what? and don't forget that pixel level tests are not image quality tests.

and i guess no one would ever want to crop?

that sensor score is so much better for the D40. oh, wait, it's not.

If you're going to link to dxomark, should have read the details, like the SNR, dynamic range and tonal range, instead of going by an overall generic score.

And no, no one with half a brain would want to crop a telephoto picture out of a kit-lens snapshot when they should really be using a telephoto lens.

 

[soydios]

@ElFenix and Munky:
I see a flame-war coming based on individual usage models. Can we please not hijack this thread into hypothetical trivia like how so-and-so uses their camera's sensor.

 

[ElFenix]

i did read the details. it's close enough that i'll take a 2/3 detail improvement every day of the week. another place you should look at is the noise charts for the d40 and the d40x/d60 on dpreview. the d40 looks like it wins, but take a close look at the provided crops and notice how the d40 looks like it was dragged through the mud. especially compared to the k100d, which uses the exact same sensor.

you have to crop to get an 8x10 out of a 2:3 imager. or maybe a car appeared on the right that you didn't see. stuff happens.

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
i did read the details. it's close enough

That's because you didn't look close enough. In reality, the SNR of the D40 sensor is equivalent to the SNR of the others at a whole ISO stop below. That means with everything else being equal, I can get a comparable shot at ISO 800, 1/30s where the others would have to use ISO 400 and 1/15s.

that i'll take a 2/3 detail improvement every day of the week.

Except that you don't get 2/3 more detail, the math doesn't work that way. You get 864 more horizontal pixels and 592 more vertical pixels, not nearly what I'd call 2/3 more detail... and that's not even factoring in the AA filter, which also affects per-pixel detail.

another place you should look at is the noise charts for the d40 and the d40x/d60 on dpreview. the d40 looks like it wins, but take a close look at the provided crops and notice how the d40 looks like it was dragged through the mud. especially compared to the k100d, which uses the exact same sensor.

That explains the difference between armchair photographers and real photographers. I've shot over 2000 photos on my D40, often at ISO's up to 1600 in low light conditions, and none of them looked like mud.

you have to crop to get an 8x10 out of a 2:3 imager. or maybe a car appeared on the right that you didn't see. stuff happens.

Even so, that never stopped me from making nice 8x10 prints from the D40.

Now, even if you disagree with all my points above, you can't compensate for a slower x-sync speed with more pixels or different lens. The fastest shutter speed you can use with flash on a D40x/D60 is 1/200, compared to 1/500 on a D40. That alone is a major reason I went with a D40, because not only can I stop motion better, but I also don't need as much flash output to provide day-light fill. These advantages may not be of use to everyone, but when you need it you'll definitely appreciate it.

 

[DrPizza]

The question was "are the updated features worth $100", not a request for your little war. Please stop derailing the thread. -Anandtech Moderator DrPizza

 

[IAteYourMother]

i thought this war was over whether the D40 is a better option than the 40x or the 60, and hence, is germane to the topic of the thread.

 

[extra]

At the risk of going off-topic *gulp* the rebel XSI is more camera than the D60 or D40x and can be found for very reasonable prices.

--14bit vs. 12.
--Live view? XSI has it (extremely useful for macro especially, or manual focus)... D40 or D60? Nope.
--Auto focus with all of canon's lenses ... vs. won't auto focus with tons of nikon lenses you might pick up, especially older ones.
--More FPS (useful for action)
--9 auto focus points versus...wait for it... 3
--Want to make HDR? Want to do digital exposure blending? Well, turn on auto exposure bracketing. Eeep, sorry, the D40x and D60 don't do that either.
--Faster startup speed (close to half the time!)
--Faster shutter lag
--Iso button on xsi (or xs) makes changing iso really easy...on the D40x/D60 you hafta go into the menu
--D40x/D60: NO DEPTH OF FIELD PREVIEW!?!?!?
--What 'bout mirror lockup? Yeah, same story...XSI has it, d40x/D60? nope, sorry. No extra sharpness for j00.
--One other really funny thing: with really really old nikon lenses put on the canon with an adapter the camera will meter just fine in av mode or manual. They will mount on the nikon body but are full manual, camera won't meter--lol.


Want to buy a battery grip? Oh, that's too bad...nikon doesn't make one (last I checked) for the D40x/D60... Sucks! Well, there is a third party one, good luck!.

--Once again, no live view is the suck. Hope you don't want to try having fun with extension tubes!

Anyway, Nikon makes some awesome cameras. I think their higher end bodies are simply the best available right now. D300/D700/D3x are awesome.

Now, the D40x and D60 are good cameras--they would serve you well. But unless you are invested in Nikon lenses already or there is a specific one you want, do yourself a favor and check out the Rebel XS and XSi.

If you must go nikon, seriously consider a used D80 or save for the D90!

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: extra
At the risk of going off-topic *gulp* the rebel XSI is more camera than the D60 or D40x and can be found for very reasonable prices.

--14bit vs. 12.
--Live view? XSI has it (extremely useful for macro especially, or manual focus)... D40 or D60? Nope.
--Auto focus with all of canon's lenses ... vs. won't auto focus with tons of nikon lenses you might pick up, especially older ones.
--More FPS (useful for action)
--9 auto focus points versus...wait for it... 3
--Want to make HDR? Want to do digital exposure blending? Well, turn on auto exposure bracketing. Eeep, sorry, the D40x and D60 don't do that either.
--Faster startup speed (close to half the time!)
--Faster shutter lag
--Iso button on xsi (or xs) makes changing iso really easy...on the D40x/D60 you hafta go into the menu
--D40x/D60: NO DEPTH OF FIELD PREVIEW!?!?!?
--What 'bout mirror lockup? Yeah, same story...XSI has it, d40x/D60? nope, sorry. No extra sharpness for j00.
--One other really funny thing: with really really old nikon lenses put on the canon with an adapter the camera will meter just fine in av mode or manual. They will mount on the nikon body but are full manual, camera won't meter--lol.


Want to buy a battery grip? Oh, that's too bad...nikon doesn't make one (last I checked) for the D40x/D60... Sucks! Well, there is a third party one, good luck!.

--Once again, no live view is the suck. Hope you don't want to try having fun with extension tubes!

Anyway, Nikon makes some awesome cameras. I think their higher end bodies are simply the best available right now. D300/D700/D3x are awesome.

Now, the D40x and D60 are good cameras--they would serve you well. But unless you are invested in Nikon lenses already or there is a specific one you want, do yourself a favor and check out the Rebel XS and XSi.

If you must go nikon, seriously consider a used D80 or save for the D90!

You do realize that those features aren't important to everyone? Maybe it's important to you, but not to me. Then there's the difference between what looks important on paper vs what actually matters when taking the shot. I was fully aware of what extra's the Canons had, and still went with the Nikon. What's important to me is fully functional & customizable auto-iso function, 1/500 xsync speed, low-light sensitivity, a real AF-assist lamp, and light weight. Things like HDR, mirror lockup and DOF preview are of no use to me, and 14 vs 12-bit is not even a consideration.

 

[extra]

Originally posted by: munky
You do realize that those features aren't important to everyone? Maybe it's important to you, but not to me. Then there's the difference between what looks important on paper vs what actually matters when taking the shot. I was fully aware of what extra's the Canons had, and still went with the Nikon. What's important to me is fully functional & customizable auto-iso function, 1/500 xsync speed, low-light sensitivity, a real AF-assist lamp, and light weight. Things like HDR, mirror lockup and DOF preview are of no use to me, and 14 vs 12-bit is not even a consideration.

Uhmmm... okay? If those features aren't important to you, then obviously you wouldn't want to factor them into your purchasing decision?

The op, however, is just buying his first DSLR...some of the features very well might be important to him, especially live view and auto bracketing. Or maybe they aren't important to him. shrug. But don't try to argue with people because they dont think the d40 is the be all end all slr, that's kind of silly. I'm sure it works great for some people and other camers work better for others... lol Also would like to point out that the d40's high-iso/low light ability is not particularly good. The rebel xsi has has much better high iso results.

However, once you move up the nikon line things change. The d90 has great high iso capabilities, better imho than the xsi (maybe not than the new rebel, but I don't know I haven't played with one).

 

[Heidfirst]

you do realise that this is a 2 month old thread & the OP has probably bought & moved on?