Nice commentary on Drug Legalization

[Genx87]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITI...ation.drugs/index.html

He hits all the points but I would also add that our drug war has devasted central and south america as cartels rival govts in buying power.

 

[scott916]

Very objective article, but even though I truly agree with his points, do you really believe legalization of hard drugs will be a manageable undertaking? Gov't rehab problems are a joke NOW.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: scott916
Very objective article, but even though I truly agree with his points, do you really believe legalization of hard drugs will be a manageable undertaking? Gov't rehab problems are a joke NOW.

As long as people were allowed to come crying to the government to fix problems they create for themselves, no it wouldn't work.

 

[ZzZGuy]

I have seen and worked with people who can do many of these hard drugs and yet are some of the best and most productive people I've ever met (those some are lazy bastards), on the flip side I've also worked with someone who slowly went insane over 6 months after being fucked up hard after doing every drug under the sun for years, though oddly enough take him out back and give him a joint and he'd be good for the day until it got real bad. Also note my line of work weeds out crack heads and non productive people pretty fast. This though is not counting all the junkies and crack heads out back behind whatever local 7/11.

My conclusion is some people are more tolerant of these hard drugs then others, like how different races of people are more tolerant to alcohol then others. IF, and that's a big if, hard drugs are legalized there would need to be a test to tell people if they should avoid said drugs or if they are ok.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
I have seen and worked with people who can do many of these hard drugs and yet are some of the best and most productive people I've ever met (those some are lazy bastards), on the flip side I've also worked with someone who slowly went insane over 6 months after being fucked up hard after doing every drug under the sun for years, though oddly enough take him out back and give him a joint and he'd be good for the day until it got real bad. Also note my line of work weeds out crack heads and non productive people pretty fast. This though is not counting all the junkies and crack heads out back behind whatever local 7/11.

My conclusion is some people are more tolerant of these hard drugs then others, like how different races of people are more tolerant to alcohol then others. IF, and that's a big if, hard drugs are legalized there would need to be a test to tell people if they should avoid said drugs or if they are ok.

Lol, what kind of test would that be and who'd administer it, Super Fly?

 

[heyheybooboo]

We as a society aren't ready for it - don't know if we ever will be.

I agree prohibition makes no sense but it sure beats the alternative. Face it. Collectively, we are some irresponsible dunderheads.

Little Johnnie and his buddies would have some big fun when he found his parents stash of 'schrooms and 'ludes.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
We as a society aren't ready for it - don't know if we ever will be.

I agree prohibition makes no sense but it sure beats the alternative.

Hard to say when you look at what illegalization has wrought - a loss of civil liberties, growth of violent drug gangs here and abroad, a corruption of various gov'ts here and abroad, etc. I'm ready to try legalization, and I'm about as "square" as you can get - I've never tried recreational drugs, and have no plans to do so.

Face it. Collectively, we are some irresponsible dunderheads.

True, but only because the gov't has systematically encouraged it (subprime bailouts, etc.). Stop trying to protect people from their own ignorance, and watch 'em wise up quickly. Start drug-testing welfare recipients, and people might clean up their act.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Little Johnnie and his buddies would have some big fun when he found his parents stash of 'schrooms and 'ludes.

There is so much wrong with this, I don't know where to begin...

I had friends in college who grew up in the country, surrounded by cow pastures. Well, it turns out that the weather is Oregon is perfect for turning cow patties into miniature shroom farms. These kids could literally run out into their backyard and get high on shrooms without their parents having a clue. And if you lived in the Oregon countryside, you'd want to too.

I grew up in the city, so we didn't have a large supply of cow shit readily available. But we had friends, older brothers, neighbors, and a host of unseemly characters that we knew through public school, after-school programs and outside activities. Scoring drugs in the city is not exactly rocket science. My friends were getting fucked up on some of the hardest shit you can imagine by age 15. Did their parents know? Nope. But even after their parents found out, it didn't stop them. I had several friends live for months on end on the streets after being kicked out of their houses, selling drugs to get by. And they were still kids. The parents didn't have to provide anything; life provides the motivation to get high and people can come up with the rest.

And, for God's sake, you're acting like kids can't get high off of what their parents keep around the house now. Sure, they could break into the liquor cabinet or steal a beer. But I'm talking about a family where the parents don't indulge in any substances. Your dad likes to do woodworking? Huff that wood glue he uses and you'll be fucked up. Your mother's a seamstress? Steal that Sharpie and inhale deeply. I knew kids who got high off whip cream canisters. If you're going to attempt to ban everything based on the archaic notion that children might accidentally come into contact with something they can use to get fucked up, why not start at the dairy aisle?

Don't get me wrong; I am not advocating that children should be exposed to drugs. But the fact is that making drugs illegal has done virtually nothing to stop them from getting to children. Perhaps we're taking the wrong track on the drug battle. Parental involvement is key, and no amount of legislation can affect that. I had parents who were very involved in my life and I avoided drugs. My friends had parents who were less involved and they took a different path. You aren't going to stop that just by making certain substances illegal; people will find ways to escape a reality they don't want to face. You can't legislate that.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
We as a society aren't ready for it - don't know if we ever will be.

I agree prohibition makes no sense but it sure beats the alternative. Face it. Collectively, we are some irresponsible dunderheads.

Little Johnnie and his buddies would have some big fun when he found his parents stash of 'schrooms and 'ludes.

Why is that not the parents responsibility?

 

[HardcoreRobot]

he is right, but no one will care

 

[Desireisis]

Originally posted by: scott916
Very objective article, but even though I truly agree with his points, do you really believe legalization of hard drugs will be a manageable undertaking? Gov't rehab problems are a joke NOW.

your acting like you can't goto the street corner and get what ever you want in any town in america now. Normal people are not going to just pick up the crack pipe because hard drugs are legal

 

[TechBoyJK]

Originally posted by: Desireisis

Originally posted by: scott916
Very objective article, but even though I truly agree with his points, do you really believe legalization of hard drugs will be a manageable undertaking? Gov't rehab problems are a joke NOW.

your acting like you can't goto the street corner and get what ever you want in any town in america now. Normal people are not going to just pick up the crack pipe because hard drugs are legal

Yea.. people that want it, can get it. Prohibition isn't helping or working.

 

[nobodyknows]

I can see decriminalizing or maybe legalizing pot, but that's it. You just can't legalize everything. Example, are we going to legalize LSD? How about cocaine? It was legal and look how that worked out.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
I can see decriminalizing or maybe legalizing pot, but that's it. You just can't legalize everything. Example, are we going to legalize LSD? How about cocaine? It was legal and look how that worked out.

How did it work out? Was it worse or better than today in terms of useage and the crime waves associated with it?

I dont think we need to get into the synthetic shit like LSD. LSD afaik isnt a commonly used drug like cocaine or opiates.

Decriminalizing it doesnt benefit anybody. It is still the black unregulated market that will provide the product.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
I can see decriminalizing or maybe legalizing pot, but that's it. You just can't legalize everything. Example, are we going to legalize LSD? How about cocaine? It was legal and look how that worked out.

How did it work out? Was it worse or better than today in terms of useage and the crime waves associated with it?

I dont think we need to get into the synthetic shit like LSD. LSD afaik isnt a commonly used drug like cocaine or opiates.

Decriminalizing it doesnt benefit anybody. It is still the black unregulated market that will provide the product.

I don't feel like looking it up, but if I remember my history correctly cocaine was the reason they started outlawing drugs in the first place.

My point is some people can handle their drugs and some can't. I personally would have nothing against legalizing pot. I would look forward to again being able to getting a good buzz every now then without worrying about the possible consequences.

Try that for a while and see how it goes, then maybe we could look at other drugs on a case by case basis.

 

[extra]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
I can see decriminalizing or maybe legalizing pot, but that's it. You just can't legalize everything. Example, are we going to legalize LSD? How about cocaine? It was legal and look how that worked out.

Uhhhhhh.... How about, cocaine, meth, etc.. they are illegal and look how that is working out. Laughable at best, destructive and creates gangs and drug lords and murderers and huge crime waves at worst....

And yes of course lsd should be legal.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: extra

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
I can see decriminalizing or maybe legalizing pot, but that's it. You just can't legalize everything. Example, are we going to legalize LSD? How about cocaine? It was legal and look how that worked out.

Uhhhhhh.... How about, cocaine, meth, etc.. they are illegal and look how that is working out. Laughable at best, destructive and creates gangs and drug lords and murderers and huge crime waves at worst....

And yes of course lsd should be legal.

You're talking about drugs much more addictive then alcohol and look at the problems alcohol addition causes.

 

[thirtythree]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: extra

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
I can see decriminalizing or maybe legalizing pot, but that's it. You just can't legalize everything. Example, are we going to legalize LSD? How about cocaine? It was legal and look how that worked out.

Uhhhhhh.... How about, cocaine, meth, etc.. they are illegal and look how that is working out. Laughable at best, destructive and creates gangs and drug lords and murderers and huge crime waves at worst....

And yes of course lsd should be legal.

You're talking about drugs much more addictive then alcohol and look at the problems alcohol addition causes.

We should try outlawing alcohol!

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
I can see decriminalizing or maybe legalizing pot, but that's it. You just can't legalize everything. Example, are we going to legalize LSD? How about cocaine? It was legal and look how that worked out.

How did it work out? Was it worse or better than today in terms of useage and the crime waves associated with it?

I dont think we need to get into the synthetic shit like LSD. LSD afaik isnt a commonly used drug like cocaine or opiates.

Decriminalizing it doesnt benefit anybody. It is still the black unregulated market that will provide the product.

I don't feel like looking it up, but if I remember my history correctly cocaine was the reason they started outlawing drugs in the first place.

My point is some people can handle their drugs and some can't. I personally would have nothing against legalizing pot. I would look forward to again being able to getting a good buzz every now then without worrying about the possible consequences.

Try that for a while and see how it goes, then maybe we could look at other drugs on a case by case basis.

We allowed opiates and cocaine to be bought until we started curtailing its use in the and around World War I. That said back then they probably believed it would curtail its use. They also didnt forsee the drug war and the devastation it would bring.

I understand some can handle it and some cant. But that goes for anything in life. That doesnt mean we need to outlaw something because some cant handle it.

Nearly a century later we should be able to look back and make educated decisions that the drug war simply doesnt work and base policy on it.

 

[scott916]

So for those who support legalization of all drugs, is it simply decriminalization of hard drugs or actual legalization?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: scott916
So for those who support legalization of all drugs, is it simply decriminalization of hard drugs or actual legalization?

Legalization, regulation, and taxation. Bring it off the black market. I acknowledge it is not a perfect solution. However the drug war costs us billions and kills thousands every year in the cross fire. At the same time huge cartels erect off the profits made via the balck market.

Mexico is in some serious shit because the cartels have become powerful enough to rival the damned govt.

 

[scott916]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: scott916
So for those who support legalization of all drugs, is it simply decriminalization of hard drugs or actual legalization?

Legalization, regulation, and taxation. Bring it off the black market. I acknowledge it is not a perfect solution. However the drug war costs us billions and kills thousands every year in the cross fire. At the same time huge cartels erect off the profits made via the balck market.

Mexico is in some serious shit because the cartels have become powerful enough to rival the damned govt.

I completely agree, however I question the government's ability to reign in a public, whose perception is so easily shifted, that decides its now fine to try coke because 'they say so' and becomes quickly addicted, leading to many of the problems we now experience with alcohol. People who are tired on the roads from staying up all night binging, rampant addiction, even if there is a DRAMATIC drop in violent crime. It's a catch 22, and that's just cocaine. As for heroin, look at countries in the middle east where it's readily available and the addiction rate is simply staggering.

As much as I'd love to see a shift towards sensibility in the american public and the government, I'm not confident it could be pulled off. There's a reason hard drugs are illegal in every country on the planet.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: scott916
So for those who support legalization of all drugs, is it simply decriminalization of hard drugs or actual legalization?

Legalization, regulation, and taxation. Bring it off the black market. I acknowledge it is not a perfect solution. However the drug war costs us billions and kills thousands every year in the cross fire. At the same time huge cartels erect off the profits made via the balck market.

Mexico is in some serious shit because the cartels have become powerful enough to rival the damned govt.

How does one decide what drugs to legalize and what not to?

What makes you think you can tax the drugs and not have the black market undercut your price?

LOL regulate? How?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: scott916
So for those who support legalization of all drugs, is it simply decriminalization of hard drugs or actual legalization?

Legalization, regulation, and taxation. Bring it off the black market. I acknowledge it is not a perfect solution. However the drug war costs us billions and kills thousands every year in the cross fire. At the same time huge cartels erect off the profits made via the balck market.

Mexico is in some serious shit because the cartels have become powerful enough to rival the damned govt.

How does one decide what drugs to legalize and what not to?

What makes you think you can tax the drugs and not have the black market undercut your price?

LOL regulate? How?

Is there a massive black market for alcohol or cigarettes?

What do you mean how? How do we regulate and tax other markets?

 

[crownjules]

Originally posted by: scott916
I completely agree, however I question the government's ability to reign in a public, whose perception is so easily shifted, that decides its now fine to try coke because 'they say so' and becomes quickly addicted, leading to many of the problems we now experience with alcohol. People who are tired on the roads from staying up all night binging, rampant addiction, even if there is a DRAMATIC drop in violent crime. It's a catch 22, and that's just cocaine. As for heroin, look at countries in the middle east where it's readily available and the addiction rate is simply staggering.

It is a ridiculous assumption to make that legalization will see a huge wave in additional users. You might see a small bump up at the beginning as those who wanted to try those substances but didn't out of fear of being caught now go and experiment. But legalization isn't going to send our entire nation into a drug frenzy. Those that want to use already do so because, regardless of the War on Drugs, those drugs are still widely accessible and can be found.

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
What makes you think you can tax the drugs and not have the black market undercut your price?

LOL regulate? How?

Try putting some thought behind your responses. Black markets exist to buy/sell things that are not legally available. Once something is legal, the black market demand for them dries up so there would be no undercutting of prices. It becomes a function of regular market forces.

You'd regulate drugs the exact same way you regulate alcohol and tobacco. It's pretty simple.