NFSW (very graphic) :Wikileaks releases video footage of journalist killings

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Noobtastic

Banned
Jul 9, 2005
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Right, a claim you can't quote anything from any source to back.

I provided multiple sources. You simply said they were B.S.

I've never defended any suggestion that anyone should ever be expelled from anywhere, though I do defend Helen Thomas from absurd attempts to slander her as a bigot.

Do you really want me to find the post where you defended the ethnic cleansing of Jews from "Arab lands" between 1948-1967?

You accused me of racism, bigotry, blah blah blah for calling you on that.

His well sourced articles make demonstrate his reporting as reliable, the fact that he is Jewish just makes it harder for you to slander him as an "Arabist."

His well sources articled? Can you find me an independent, mainstream source that corroborates his knee-jerk reactionary israel-bashing propaganda?

the claims that israel "stole" information was activists or journalists is patently false. the only data retrieved was photos taken by journalists that showed israel soldiers getting beaten to shit.

israel does that all the time. it doesn't exploit the media unlike the palestinians, who do their best to showcase whatever wars they start - "oh noes, look what the zionists did to us111!!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pallywood

ones' ethnicity has zero effect on argument. the fact that he is jewish does not somehow make him immune to accusations of arabism or antisemitism, that itself is antisemitic.

this is just a continuation of argumentum ad verecundiam.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
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I provided multiple sources. You simply said they were B.S.
The articles you linked are from respectable sources, they simply don't support your bullshit, which again is why you can't quote anything from them which does.

Do you really want me to find the post where you defended the ethnic cleansing of Jews from "Arab lands" between 1948-1967?
Rather, I know that nobody will ever find me defending ethnic cleansing anywhere, because I consider such acts utterly indefensible. Granted that doesn't stop you from imaging otherwise, just like you seem to imagine the articles you cited say things which they don't.
 
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Noobtastic

Banned
Jul 9, 2005
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The articles you linked are from respectable sources, they simply don't support your bullshit, which again is why you can't quote anything from them which does.

what do they not support?

you asked for a source on an israeli soldier stealing classified information and exposing it to the press, there is the source.

do you want quotes, seriously?
Rather, I know that nobody will ever find me defending ethnic cleansing anywhere, because I consider such acts utterly indefensible. Granted that doesn't stop you from imaging otherwise, just like you seem to imagine the articles you cited say things which they don't.

if you want i'll find the many posts you wrote defending the systematic removal of jewish heritage in the arab world, historic synagogues converted into mosques, thousands of kilometers of land confiscated.

you ACCUSED ME of misrepresenting the reality, and then went on another anti-zionist rant consistent with the propaganda of baathist and nazi loonies.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
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what do they not support?
In bold:

...a soldier walked off with the whole security apparatus of the IDF and sold it to the Sunday Times...
Put simply; neither of those claims have any basis in reality, which is why you can't quote anything to support them. The same goes for your delusions of me defending what I've never considered anything but indefensible.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
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Wikileaks Soldier Reveals Orders for "360 Rotational Fire" Against Civilians in Iraq


Submitted by Ralph Lopez on Wed, 2010-06-16 18:52
Still breaking as there is no MSM reportage so far. Please Facebook/crosspost

Ethan McCord, one of the soldiers seen in the now-famous Wikileaks video in which two American Apache helicopters fire upon a relaxed, unhurried gaggle of men in Baghdad, has stated in an interview with World Socialist Website that he witnessed numerous times the indiscriminate slaughter of civilians in Iraq after IED attacks. McCord is on of the soldiers seen helping two wounded children after the attack. He has stepped forward with open opposition to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and written a letter of apology for his part in the incident to the mother of the children, who has accepted his apology. The mother's husband was killed in the attack and found with his body shielding that of one of his children.

McCord said to reporter Bill Van Auken:
"we had a pretty gung-ho commander, who decided that because we were getting hit by IEDs a lot, there would be a new battalion SOP [standard operating procedure]. He goes, “If someone in your line gets hit with an IED, 360 rotational fire. You kill every motherfucker on the street." Myself and Josh and a lot of other soldiers were just sitting there looking at each other like, “Are you kidding me? You want us to kill women and children on the street?” And you couldn’t just disobey orders to shoot, because they could just make your life hell in Iraq. So like with myself, I would shoot up into the roof of a building instead of down on the ground toward civilians. But I’ve seen it many times, where people are just walking down the street and an IED goes off and the troops open fire and kill them."
The deliberate killing of civilians is a war crime (Nanking 1937, Hankow 1938, German Invasion of Poland 1939.) McCord is one of a growing number of soldiers and support groups who have renounced their actions in Iraq. He said:
"I was the gung-ho soldier. I thought I was going over there to do the greater good. I thought my job over there was to protect the Iraqi people and that this was a job with honor and courage and duty. I was hit by an IED within two weeks of my being in Iraq. And I didn’t understand why people were throwing rocks at us, why I was being shot at and why we’re being blown up, when I have it in my head that I was here to help these people."
McCord says the scenes captured in the Wikileaks video are "an every-day occurrence in Iraq." McCord says that when he found the two children wounded in the van, another soldier began to vomit and ran off. Then he recounts:
"That’s when I saw the boy move with what appeared to be a labored breath. So I stated screaming, “The boy’s alive.” I grabbed him and cradled him in my arms and kept telling him, “Don’t die, don’t die.” He opened his eyes, looked up at me. I told him, “It’s OK, I have you.” His eyes rolled back into his head, and I kept telling him, “It’s OK, I’ve got you.” I ran up to the Bradley and placed him inside. My platoon leader was standing there at the time, and he yelled at me for doing what I did. He told me to “stop worrying about these motherfucking kids and start worrying about pulling security.” So after that I went up and pulled security on a rooftop.
McCord says about his mental state afterwards:
"I went to see a staff sergeant who was in my chain of command and told him I needed to see mental health about what was going on in my head. He told me to “quit being a pussy” and to “suck it up and be a soldier.” He told me that if I wanted to go to mental health, there would be repercussions, one of them being labeled a “malingerer,” which is actually a crime in the US Army."
McCord says the greater story is being overlooked, and that rather than blame individual soldiers, the Army itself should be examined, and its system of training soldiers.
"Instead of people being upset at a few soldiers in a video who were doing what they were trained to do, I think people need to be more upset at the system that trained these soldiers. They are doing exactly what the Army wants them to do."
McCord echoes Major General Smedley D. Butler, the double Medal of Honor winner who resigned his commission and in 1935 became a critic of the nations wars, traveling the country with his book and famous speech "War is a Racket." McCord said in the interview:
"I am not part of any party. Was I hopeful? Yes. Was I surprised that we are still there? No. I’m not surprised at all. There’s something else lying underneath there. It’s not Republican or Democrat; it’s money. There’s something else lying underneath it where Republicans and Democrats together want to keep us in Iraq and Afghanistan."
McCord talks about the ongoing effects of war:
"I still live with this every day. When I close my eyes I see what happened that day and many other days like a slide show in my head. The smells come back to me. The cries of the children come back to me. The people driving this big war machine, they don’t have to deal with this. They live in their $36 million mansions and sleep well at night."
Total Defense Industry Contributions to Your Congressmen

CONTACT CONGRESS
 

Danube

Banned
Dec 10, 2009
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^^^Sounds pretty synthetic - a lot like those phony Winter Soldiers who always make stuff up
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
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Winter Soldier Investigation

Credibility of the veterans and their testimony

Since the first day of the WSI event and for more than thirty years since, individuals and organizations have sought to discredit or at least minimize the painful revelations brought forth at that event. Critics have claimed that participants were frauds; that they were told to not cooperate with later investigators; that their testimonies were inaccurate or just plain fabricated.[18] To date, no records of fraudulent participants or fraudulent testimony have been produced.[10]
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
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They had plenty of time to determine the threat.

As far as I know these videos we see are from hidden heli-copters. It's pretty obvious the people in this video didn't realize a gunboat was hovering over-head.

Also, it took the nearest ground troops like 10 minutes to arrive on the murder position.

So... who WERE they "shooting at?"

-John

Jesus christ you know absolutely nothing about military hardware or rules of engagement do you.
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
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Ill give it to you fuck head, your consistent with all the bullshit you find and post. It must be your life's purpose to discredit your country man and government in any way you can. You're an aberration, a disgrace to your country, a loone on the loose.

Thankfuly, you reputation was cemented in the 911 thread and nobody take any of your shit seriously.

However I still can't help but find you personally offensive on every level.
 

Argo

Lifer
Apr 8, 2000
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Anybody else have an issue with soldiers joking around after the shots? I realize that war desynthesizes you to death, but geez man - you just killed 15 people. Maybe joking isn't the right thing.

As for the actual act, it's hard to see. I'm assuming the guy calling the shots had a better view of the events (since they did zoom in a couple of times). Was there really an RPG there?

Also, since the war is essentially in a heavily populated area (Baghdad) - is there any protocol to mark the area as off-limit after engagement? I can see how wounded person on the sidewalk would attract passer by's trying to help.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
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It must be your life's purpose to discredit your country man and government in any way you can.
...

Thankfuly, you reputation was cemented in the 911 thread and nobody take any of your shit seriously.
Disregard for reality is discrediting our great nation, in regard to 9/11 and much more, and my intent is stop such delusions from running our country into the ground. On the other hand, you seem intent on dancing while Rome burns, and shaking your fist at those of us attempting to put out the flames.
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
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Great post, kylebisme.

If it smells like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck,

it's a duck.

-John
 

miniMUNCH

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2000
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What strikes me as amazing is that, on one hand, we bitch and complain about justice in the US, due process, capital punishment, abortion and how much individual american live matters... and on the other hand, a solider in helo in a Iraq lit up 15 people with a joy stick trigger off of radio authorization acquired in 15 seconds.
 

Harabec

Golden Member
Oct 15, 2005
1,371
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Because people do care about themselves or things close to them but don't REALLY care about people living thousands of miles away. That is just human nature.
The internet simply made it easy to write long sentences of caring about any topic that comes up. It doesn't mean you'll lift a finger.
 

miniMUNCH

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2000
4,159
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Because people do care about themselves or things close to them but don't REALLY care about people living thousands of miles away. That is just human nature.
The internet simply made it easy to write long sentences of caring about any topic that comes up. It doesn't mean you'll lift a finger.

The bolded is not entirely true but I'm sad to say true enough. But yeah, human nature indeed.
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
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Those of us that object to this video, do indeed lift a finger.

That there are people that so easily accept it, is the telling thing.

-John