nForce3 vs 4 & socket 754 vs 939; upgrade confusion

[videobruce]

I curently have two nForce2 MBs'. I'm considering upgradeing one of them, but have run into confusion between nForce3 vs nForce4 chipsets, but especially this choice of 754 vs 939 pin AMD processors.

1. I read AMDs' FAQs' regarding the two sockets. Are each of the AMD 64s' available in either 745 and 939 pin?

2. Is a upgrade to the older nForce3 chipset worth it or would it be better jumping to v4? How much a difference between v2 & v3?

3. To the above question; AGP vs PCI express graphics cards; for the SAME chipset card, is there any difference?

4. I see these newer PIC express MB's only have three PCI slots. Why the change?

My situation;
Win 2k, no overclocking, very little gaming, don't need/want the latest and greatest. HD tuner card for timeshifting is the most intensive hardware application that the box sees.

Big varible; I would prefer to use my existing AGP card, but I might have to upgrade to a newer card depending on how a new (undecided) Microdisplay HDTV will work with the existing card. If I will have to upgrade it would be a 6600GT from the existing 9600Pro.

Hope all of that made sense. Thank's in advance.

 

[halw]

The 754 mobo's are AGP. Whereas, socket 939s are pci-e. At least in the Asus brand.

Check out your hdtv requirements first. Then you will know if you can stay with AGP or not.

 

[furballi]

1. Yes. 754 is single channel RAM, 939 is dual channel. This amounts to about 30MHz boost in CPU core speed. 939 will also support dual core CPUs.

2. I've just completed an ECS NF3 754/Sempron 3100 combo ($90 at Fry's). The CPU is running at 2.44GHz with 1.54Vcore. 1M digits Super Pi time of 38.1 sec. This is equivalent to a stock A64 3500 on the 939 platform. A guarantee mild overclock (2.25GHz) will bring this rig up to the level of a stock A64 3000 939. Run the Super Pi test with you old rig for a rough estimate of the speed boost.

3. AGP and PCI-E performance should be the same, regardless of chipset. High-end PCI-E cards are cheaper.

4. Cause they combine PCI and PCI-E slots.

No need to upgrade if you're not a big gamer and don't need the bells and whistles. I you need more power for HDTV (not likely), then go with the 754/Sempron 3100 combo at Fry's.

 

[videobruce]

The nForce2 was suppose to have dual channel RAM, but reports stated it really didn't make more than a 10% (I beleive) increase because of other reasons.

 

[furballi]

Dual channel=max 3% improvement.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: halw
The 754 mobo's are AGP. Whereas, socket 939s are pci-e. At least in the Asus brand.

Don't know about Asus in particular, but there are plenty of PCI-E motherboards for socket 754. Abit, DFI, Biostar, Epox, MSI all make them using Nforce4-4X chipset (kinda the socket 754 version of Nforce4). Biostar and a few others make socket 754 PCI-E boards based on the Geforce6100 chipset. Chaintech makes a really inexpensive (around $45???) mATX socket 754 board with PCI-E using the VIA k8T890 chipset.

Most of the Nforce4-4X chipset boards are overclockable and the Biostar Geforce6100 chipset boards (two flavors) are overclockable. Search for my reviews in this forum.

Direct answers to OP:

1) Dual core only socket 939. The budget Semprons are only socket 754 (in the open market). There is an overlap in the middle. IMO where they overlap, get socket 939. If you need/want to go cheap, get socket 754 with a Sempron. If you need/want dual core, get socket 939 with an x2.

2) The Nforce3-250 is the latest nVidia chipset with AGP. Don't consider it older or newer. Nforce4 (any flavor) is PCI-E only. Nforce2 is socket A only. Kinda tough to directly compare the three since they target different areas, but Nforce3 and 4 are closest, separated by AGP versus PCI-E respectively.

3) If you are talking same CPU, same GPU, same clock and memory speeds and pipelines, then the performance will be darn near the same. HOWEVER, the latest practice has been to charge MORE money for AGP versions and clock them slower, sometimes with fewer features as well (such as fewer pipelines).

4) Besides many functions being integrated onto motherboards, they now have some PCI-E 1X slots as well as the 16X for video (some even have 4X). Future expansion cards, especially ones that will benefit from higher bandwidth than PCI can give, will become available for PCI-E 1X or 4X. Examples are gigabit ethernet cards, SATA and SAS RAID cards, HD video capture cards. Also, 3 PCI seems to be more than enough for most people. NIC is on motherboard and so is sound, but if you go with PCI sound, then two more PCI available. Video capture, one more available. What can it be used for? Firewire? Sometimes that is onboard as well (but not always).

 

[furballi]

Some folks are still stuck on analog modem. I use a 56K modem as backup to cable. Most newer boards no longer come with a built-in modem. You'll also need a PCI slot if you want to use wireless internet.

I would prefer to have at least four PCI slots. The newer PCI-E 1x is useless right now.

 

[imported_Kiwi]

Originally posted by: videobruce

2. Is a upgrade to the older nForce3 chipset worth it or would it be better jumping to v4? How much a difference between v2 & v3?

Actually, while Zap is normally on top of the tech, on one point I must differ.

The top dog NF3 is still the "Ultra", not the 250. In order of features and release sequence as well, it was NF3-150, NF3-250, and NF3-Ultra. All NF3 variations are AGP only, and both s754 and s939 were available in 250/ Ultra (unsure about 150). For enthusiasts to whom an OC is part of the spice of the DIY activity, there are s754 Sempron cpu's that respond well to the tweaking, while being (comparatively) inexpensive.

 

[furballi]

Same game with NF4/NF4 Ultra. More bells and whistles to complicate matter.

 

[Zap]

I guess I was saying 250 to differentiate from the older 150 model which only had a partially working AGP lock (very few boards with lock). Anyways, good thing to point out, Kiwi.

Also, wasn't there a 250 and a 250GB model?

 

[imported_Kiwi]

Not entirely merely a case of feature-creep between NF3 & NF4 system boards, though. Most of the name brands seemed to put more overall effort into their NF4's, as if they just about all had decided pretty early on to de-emphasize the NF3's as soon as the NF4's were on the scene. That may even have been done at nVidia's suggestion.

I'll have to backtrack the old chipset summaries, assuming I remember it next time I'm digging in someone's archives, but I do have some excuse for forgetting stuff. I've been collecting computer information in my gray cells for close to 35 years now, and those don't regenerate. With age, and I'm close to admitting to "Senior Age", after all, I do get that discount at restaurants, so I just don't happen to immediately recall knowing about two NF3 250's.

 

[videobruce]

Originally posted by: furballi
Some folks are still stuck on analog modem. I use a 56K modem as backup to cable. Most newer boards no longer come with a built-in modem. You'll also need a PCI slot if you want to use wireless internet.
I would prefer to have at least four PCI slots. The newer PCI-E 1x is useless right now.

Thank you!

Couldn't of said it better. Analog modem are a no issue, but I can surely think of enough PCI cards that would need two boards to house.

Best example;
HD Tuner card w/ daughterboard...2 slots
Audio card...................................1 slot
Firewire card................................1 slot

Spare slot....................................woops, over by 2

The big issue is the video card and if the new soon to be purchased HD Microdisplay will sync with the 9600Pro I have now. If not, then a 6600GT would be in order. If I have to get a new card, it might as well be PCI-E, hence the choice of chipsets.