nForce: Time to reconsider the whole 'integrated device' taboo? [poll]

[StattlichPassat]

As a system builder myself, I'm wondering if my business should revert upon its decidedly anti-integrated/proprietary nature in favor of offering all the virtues the nForce from nVidia has to offer, in particular the nForce2. The on-board video is at least GeForce2 MX400 quality which is more than enough for most people (common people, not gamers), the Dolby Digital 5.1 audio quality (I've heard) matches that of the Audigy and even bests it with lower CPU utilization, the MSI board features a good NIC chip, benchmark shattering nVidia chipset, and now we're hearing about USB 2.0 and Firewire support. Wow. I mean, what else does the even slightly-above-average computer user need? There's still an open AGP port for a GeForce4 Ti400 or Parhelia if you so desire, and naturally, bookoos of PCI slots now.

Would you reconsider the whole taboo against integrated peripherals with a quality, high-performance motherboard like the nForce (in particular, the MSI K7N-PRO420 at this moment)? Would consumers 'in the know' about this known taboo respond the same way and embrace the nForce and a manufacturer's decision to use it?

You decide.

 

[rbV5]

Are integrated devices taboo? I think even most AT'ers have some integrated peripherals in their rig. Seems to me a system builder in particular should push integrated solutions as much as possible for customer support/pricing reasons , if nothing else...as long as you offer custom builds as well, seems smart.

 

[Alphazero]

The best motherboards these days have integrated RAID, sound, LAN, USB 2.0, etc. However, integrated video is generally a bad idea. Performance is almost always well below a reasonable standard, and almost anyone would rather buy a more modern video card. IMHO, since most manufacturers are integrating good 6-channel sound chips, integrated everything execept video is comfortable and more affordable.

With most integrated components, you wouldn't have much of a significant choice if they weren't on-board. RAID controllers, NICs, USB 2.0 / Firewire controllers - they're all pretty much the same anyway. Having them on-board saves a lot of trouble.

 

[McCarthy]

nForce is nice. Heck most of the audio solutions around work for the vast majority of people. Same with most video. And they're not as nice. Getting to be harder to stay stubborn about it.

Still, if it were up to me I'd still rather have a motherboard with 10 PCI slots and nothing else on it except the CPU socket and ram slots, but that's me. I hate throwing away a video system, sound, NIC, etc when it's time to throw out a motherboard, so I'd rather they weren't there to start with. Even so I used the onboard sound with the last computer I built and would have used the onboard NIC, but it went to a broadband free home. Not sure which question to answer in the poll, guess #3 since the first two are worded strange. People are embracing it, maybe not onboard video too much but it's not as common yet, I'd venture to say most people (aside from Anandtech enthusiasts and the like) have been using onboard sound all along, not all, but most.

--Mc

 

[Gstanfor]

I've found that using the nforce hasn't hurt my sales any.

The great thing about the nforce is that all the integration can be disabled easily if necessary, and if you have a particuarly obstinate client who does not desire integrated video at all, then there is a version of the chipset to cater to his/her needs.

If you are not a gamer, then the nforce's built in graphics will be more than sufficient and able to cope with the rare occasion when 3d may be required (the grandkids are visiting, etc). Even if you are an occasional gamer the graphics performance is quite acceptable. In the real world geforce2 MX technology is far more commonly used than anything above it (it is mainstream technology - mainstream referring to the average user of course).

Greg

 

[Holmecollie]

The reason most people don't want integrated graphics is because the graphics market is the fastest developing and has the most hype. Also you have processors but they have their socket anyway.

 

[Athlon4all]

The only componet that nForce's Integrated stuff doesn't meet up is sadly the video, but the Audio is Audigy Level and the LAN is top notch as well. If I were a system builder, I wouldn't look anywhere else.

 

[Alex]

i dont have anything integrated but its not a bad idea for budget comps...

 

[Zukatah]

I am surprised by the quality of integrated devices. I used to have a SB 512PCI and the C-media chip really eats that card alive, there's no comparison. For the LAN, I cannot judge the quality of it, but it does the job pretty well. I don't have experience with integrated video and I have no intention of having that so I can't judge here. Integrated peripherals are doing a really good job and if I were to build an AMD based system for my family, I would choose nForce for its great features at a low price.

 

[Pheran]

I absolutely love my new nForce 415 (Abit NV7-133R) system (see my rigs below). The nForce 415 chipset is great because there is no integrated video, but you still get the ethernet and great nForce APU sound processor.

 

[Booster]

Believe it or not, but I had been using the i810 integrated video for a whole 2 yrs and been pretty happy with it. Maybe I'm just mad or freaky, though. Muahahahahhahaha.......

 

[Adul]

nforce is definitely a nice way to build comps. I did my first one recently and I was pleased with the results.

 

[StattlichPassat]

Thanks for the excellent replies, guys! The answers are what I was hoping for. Do you think offering the nForce sans on-board video would be an even better option? I know there's a version without VGA. On the audio, has anyone experienced any skipping or anything? Does the nForce use RAM for it's on-board video memory? I'm thinking the hot setup would be a sans-VGA nForce with 512MB DDR.

 

[StattlichPassat]

Originally posted by: Booster
Believe it or not, but I had been using the i810 integrated video for a whole 2 yrs and been pretty happy with it. Maybe I'm just mad or freaky, though. Muahahahahhahaha.......

I don't blame you- I'm not a gamer whatsoever, and my GeForce2 GTS/Pro 32MB card is actually overkill (I just happened to get a good deal on it). I dunno if I could get by on an i810 video chipset, but you could keep me on a TNT2 Ultra for another couple years I'm sure. Most people and businesses don't need anything more than what I currently have. It doesn't take even a GeForce2 to run Office or browse the Internet, but that's what I use nevertheless since the prices are so cheap nowadays. I've been quoting new system rigs to clients with 32MB Visiontek GeForce2 GTS-V chipsets.

 

[ElFenix]

The on-board video is at least GeForce2 MX400 quality

not really, but ok.

which is more than enough for most people (common people, not gamers)

you're right on that count.

the Dolby Digital 5.1 audio quality (I've heard) matches that of the Audigy

the tbsc sounds better than audigy.

nforce is sort of an enigma... low end video plus high end sound and memory controller, and a higher price than most integrated boards... 415 makes a ton of sense, its obviously performance oriented... i guess the low end video is suitable for AV mastering... that might work. and then you get to the fact that the athlon isn't competitive for the sheer performance desktop right now...

 

[StattlichPassat]

What is the GeForce4 MX400 on the level with in a non-MX card? I'm impressed on what you said about the audio. It sounds like it's an amazingly sweet board. As a system builder who only does top-notch, the best-period systems, I'm thinking about using the nForce in common business and home machines. This will make even my bottom-of-the-line systems whup up on most others. Think this is a wise move, or should I use these throughout my product line?

 

[Adul]

but the athlon is perfect for the consumer market on a nforce MB. I plan on building many more systems on the nforce.

 

[Leo V]

The problem with integrated graphics is that people may want upgrade videocards much more frequently than motherboards. Every 6-8 months the graphics bar gets raised, while motherboard/CPU combos tend to last much longer. If you think you'll never need to upgrade, my friend's GeForce2 Ultra is struggling with GTA3 while my GeForce4 Ti4200 ripped through it.

A year from now GF4MX will be considered obscenely slow (it's already around GF2 Ultra speed), and many nForce IGP users will have to upgrade. Except they won't be able to resell the IGP (like you could an MX440), and it'll act as a perpetual motherboard heater requiring a Northbridge fan. In the end, the owner saves $10-15 on the IGP, and loses $25-35 of potential resale value a year from now.

I like everything else about nForce, but I think the IGP offers few savings at a great sacrifice in flexibility. I admit there are people who don't care about 3D performance. But those people need a cheap ATI Rage anyway.

 

[StattlichPassat]

Your post and the genereal concensus from skimming over the posts in this thread says that an nForce without the on-board video would be a better option, and I agree. Most people in my target market won't be upgrading video cards every 6-8 months, if every year or two at that. A GeForce2 GTS-V level card would suit just about all my business and non-gamer home clients perfectly, and then some.

 

[StattlichPassat]

Bump for more opinions.

 

[BD2003]

Integrated devices are NOT taboo. Crappy integrated devices ARE taboo.

Up until the nforce, all we had were crappy realtek NICs, crappy VIA/Realtek/Cmedia sound, god awful Sis/trident/intel video etc....

Nforce brought a well performing and low cpu and bugfree NIC, great sound with great CPU usage, and some features that other cards cant even match yet, (although a bit buggy at times), and while the integrated GF2MX isnt going to match up to a full fledged add-in, its a step in the right direction. Its quality, and ten times faster and feature filled than any other integrated video.

Add that to the fact that the rest of the technology surrounding the nforce is second to none, I refuse to buy anything else.

Theres nothing wrong with integrated components at all. Its not the integration that ever was that problem, its their inherent crappiness up until this point.

Nforce 2 doesnt offer enough over nforce 1, but 3 should be sweet....

 

[StattlichPassat]

Uh, nForce3? Says who and where already?

 

[BD2003]

Nforce 3 would be the MB that comes out after the Nforce 2....

It doesnt exist yet, but it will. We're dealing with nvidia here.

 

[StattlichPassat]

Originally posted by: BD2003
It doesnt exist yet, but it will. We're dealing with nvidia here.

Didn't think it existed either- but you're right. I bet the nF3 comes out in Spring 2003.

 

[Booster]

And what do you guys think about the new i845G chipset? I'm thinking of getting such a board sometime soon, right now I'm too lazy to build anything . It's summer, after all. Does anyone have it and is the performance good? I read the reviews, but it's nice to hear from the actual owner what he thinks. I think they've ironed out the bugs that made the i810 a nightmare graphics chipset, did they?