NForce 4

[gamerxx13]

Is it worth it to wait for the NForce 4 or just go ahead and buy a NFOrce 3 right now..because I dont want PCI -X because its not worth it right now

 

[Rhin0]

If you don't want PCI-E or SLi then IMO you are fine going with the nforce3 or even the Viak8t800 or 890 chipset. The peformance difference is negligible between the Via set and the nforce3. Was pretty dissapointing to me to see that but I guarantee you would never notice the difference, there really isn't much.

I'd check out the AV8, AX8 from Abit and an nforce3 when it comes out in 939 from Abit or ASUS (they might have one out). I refuse to buy MSI or Gigabyte and end up with a nightmare. I know some people have good luck but i'm sticking with what has worked for me.

 

[coolred]

WeFirst off PCI-X is not what your refering to. That is something on many server and workstation boards. PCI-E is what you are talking about. And if your not intrested in it then by all means get an Nforce 3 now. There are a few reason to wait though. The NF4 has other advanced features, of which I can't remember all of them. I believe it has a better firewall onboard, it supports the faster SATA standard as well as native command qeueing(sp?), i think it has a couple more USB ports. Plus prices on the Nforce 3 should drop after the NF4 comes out.

I myself am debating this as well, although I am really looking for the Radeon Xpress as well. While I agree PCI-E is not needed as of yet, I tend to only upgrade every few years, so just thought I should go with it to be ready for my next upgrade.

 

[Rhin0]

Originally posted by: coolred
WeFirst off PCI-X is not what your refering to. That is something on many server and workstation boards. PCI-E is what you are talking about. And if your not intrested in it then by all means get an Nforce 3 now. There are a few reason to wait though. The NF4 has other advanced features, of which I can't remember all of them. I believe it has a better firewall onboard, it supports the faster SATA standard as well as native command qeueing(sp?), i think it has a couple more USB ports. Plus prices on the Nforce 3 should drop after the NF4 comes out.

I myself am debating this as well, although I am really looking for the Radeon Xpress as well. While I agree PCI-E is not needed as of yet, I tend to only upgrade every few years, so just thought I should go with it to be ready for my next upgrade.

nforce3 prices should bomb. I can't beleive nvidia and these companies are putting out both boards so close together. You'd think it would be a loss in profit. Who is going to want an nforce3 board when the nforce4 boards are out. FOUR IS BIGGER THAN THREE SO GOTTA BUY FOUR!! YES!

Really depends on the features you need. I really don't see the big deal on the firewall thing. Windows SP2 has a firewall plus anyone who is smart has a hardware firewall with a router.

 

[coolred]

Originally posted by: Rhin0

Originally posted by: coolred
WeFirst off PCI-X is not what your refering to. That is something on many server and workstation boards. PCI-E is what you are talking about. And if your not intrested in it then by all means get an Nforce 3 now. There are a few reason to wait though. The NF4 has other advanced features, of which I can't remember all of them. I believe it has a better firewall onboard, it supports the faster SATA standard as well as native command qeueing(sp?), i think it has a couple more USB ports. Plus prices on the Nforce 3 should drop after the NF4 comes out.

I myself am debating this as well, although I am really looking for the Radeon Xpress as well. While I agree PCI-E is not needed as of yet, I tend to only upgrade every few years, so just thought I should go with it to be ready for my next upgrade.

nforce3 prices should bomb. I can't beleive nvidia and these companies are putting out both boards so close together. You'd think it would be a loss in profit. Who is going to want an nforce3 board when the nforce4 boards are out. FOUR IS BIGGER THAN THREE SO GOTTA BUY FOUR!! YES!

Really depends on the features you need. I really don't see the big deal on the firewall thing. Windows SP2 has a firewall plus anyone who is smart has a hardware firewall with a router.

Yeah I agree, I am not worried baout the firewall, like I said, I am hoping the radeon xpress gets here soon. I am not sure when or what I should by at this point either.

 

[Kabob]

I'm all about Soltek's new SL-K8TPro-939 board myself. Uses the VIA K8T800Pro, and keeps up with the NF4 reference boards in pretty much every test (passes it in a few) Check out AAT's review of the thing.

I'm debating over the same thing myself. Just sold off my s754 setup, and am looking to go to s939, but am unsure of wether I want to go with PCI-E or not.

As it is right now, I'll either go with the 3200+ Winchester and Soltek board, or the 3200+ and go with the NF4 and a new video card.

Tough decision!

 

[Concillian]

Originally posted by: Rhin0
nforce3 prices should bomb. I can't beleive nvidia and these companies are putting out both boards so close together. You'd think it would be a loss in profit. Who is going to want an nforce3 board when the nforce4 boards are out. FOUR IS BIGGER THAN THREE SO GOTTA BUY FOUR!! YES!

Was this meant to be humorous... I hope so because it made me laugh.

It is people with this mentality that "upgraded" from their GeForce 4 4200s to GeForce FX 5200s. LoL 5 is bigger than 4 so it's much better! Right? NOT!

nForce 4 is nForce3 with PCIe and some very minor other feaures.

 

[coolred]

Originally posted by: Concillian

Originally posted by: Rhin0
nforce3 prices should bomb. I can't beleive nvidia and these companies are putting out both boards so close together. You'd think it would be a loss in profit. Who is going to want an nforce3 board when the nforce4 boards are out. FOUR IS BIGGER THAN THREE SO GOTTA BUY FOUR!! YES!

Was this meant to be humorous... I hope so because it made me laugh.

It is people with this mentality that "upgraded" from their GeForce 4 4200s to GeForce FX 5200s. LoL 5 is bigger than 4 so it's much better! Right? NOT!

nForce 4 is nForce3 with PCIe and some very minor other feaures.

I wouldn't say the faster SATA and NCQ is a minor feature.

 

[gobucks]

I feel the feature set of nforce4 is a substantial improvement over nforce3 - SATA-II, NCQ, PCIe, TCP/IP offloading of the hardware firewall for reduced CPU load, standardized overclocking tools, etc. Also, look at the actual implementations of nforce3 versus nforce4. Nforce3 250GB and Ultra have very few actual retail boards, and problems with the ones that are there (have you heard all the problems with MSI Neo2 multipliers and such). On the other hand, motherboard makers are all working on a wide range of nforce4 boards, and the first offerings by Gigabyte, Asus, and (ugh...) MSI, are all astounding in their features.

I do feel that nforce3 sales will drop off a lot. nforce4 boards are aimed at comparable prices to nforce3, and I feel that the average user, when faced with the choice of an AGP/9800 Pro combo or PCIe/6600GT combo for the same price, I think it will be pretty obvious that the nforce4 will be the better buy.

I'd say, if you're leaning towards 6800GT/Ultras right now, and don't want to upgrade for a while, then stick to AGP, as the PCIe won't matter much to you, and the $100 premium isn't worth it for a PCIe GPU. But if you're looking for value, and upgradeability, and don't have a fortune to spend, then nforce4 will soon be a much wiser choice, featuring the best midrange cards (6600GT/X700XT) and the best upgrade path.

 

[Concillian]

Originally posted by: coolred

I wouldn't say the faster SATA and NCQ is a minor feature.

I would. Faster SATA? Who cares, drives can't actually transfer data that fast, and won't be able to for some time.

NCQ? There is evidence that command queuing in a single user environment this may even DETRACT from performance:
http://storagereview.com/artic...406/20040625TCQ_5.html

Even in the multi-user tests, the performance benefit is pretty minor.

These are minor features.

 

[gobucks]

SATA-II is not crucial now, but there will be lots of drives coming downt the pipe that will really be able to take advantage of the extra bandwidth, and if you go without PCIe, you will likely never be able to use them, since 1) you have no SATA-II controller and 2) the PCI bus does not provide the bandwidth to satisfy even 1 SATA-II drive, let alone several, so that's pretty much out, too. nForce4 prices are looking to be in line with current nforce3 prices, so I don't seem to see why you wouldn't want to ensure yourself some room for computer growth.

 

[arswihart]

concillian, that article is talking about tcq, not ncq, as far as i can tell. Even at the end of the article, they say "SATA NCQ is also just now entering prime time. As always, StorageReview will be there," as if they have yet to evaluate it.

As of now I don't know how TCQ and NCQ are different or what they are intended for respectively, if anyone knows, let us know.

 

[tterris]

when people say that the pcie 16 x slot cannot be fully taken advantage of yet, do you mean that the video cards are not advanced enough or that the games aren't programmed to take advantage of it? because if it's the games, then wouldnt we be better off buying the pcie cards now and the games will catch up with the cards' capabilities down the road; however, if it's the cards that aren't taken advantage of the x16 slot then i don't see why spend all the extra money on pcie.

replies welcome!

 

[gobucks]

tteris, it's a bit of both. AGP8X, and even 4X, for the most part, provide enought bandwidth for most current graphics cards. Eventually, it will be a bottleneck, but right now, it isn't. As for the programming part, AGP and PCIe are very different; AGP is primarily 1 directional, with much less upstream bandwidth than downstream bandwidth, and current coding reflects that. PCIe, on the other hand, has equal downstream and upstream, and both are extremely fast, faster than the downstream of AGP8X. As such, PCIe allows for techniques like shuttling data back and forth from main memory to video memory, and this can let programmers have some interesting choices, like being able to store large video textures in a system without a huge video framebuffer, so long as a lot of the textures aren't used as frequently. ATI and nVidia are both planning cards that can take advantage of this, and programmers will start to use these techniques eventually.

Truth be told, PCIe offers no compelling performance advantage right now, but it's rather about the upgrade path. ATI and nVidia are doing a pretty good job of ensuring that PCIe will take over, even if it's taking longer than they'd hoped. Gateway and Dell are shipping most of their PCs with PCIe technology, even if they opt to use integrated graphics, so when all these people need better graphics to run Longhorn's Aero Glass interface (whether or not it ships with longhorn), they will be looking for PCIe. Also, the graphics firms have decided that the latest and greatest will be on PCIe first from now on, ensuring that your best value will usually be on PCIe. 6600GT was released first on PCIe and was just now released on AGP, X700 series is PCIe only, as is the refresh X850 series, the 6200 series, NV41 and R430. Even now, in the sub-$200 market, PCIe offerings perform much better than their AGP counterparts due to their newer architectures.