NF4 Ultra-D - New Mushkin XP4000 3-3-2-8 250MHz @ 2.6-2.9V??

[mikemcc]

Hi Follks,
I had been planning to get the OCZ Platinum EB 4000 2GB kit, but they have been OOS for a long time. In looking around, I noticed that Mushkin has a new Redline module that is apparently a complete revision of their old high volt Redlines. These are supposed to do 3-3-2-8 @ 250MHz with around 2.6-2.9 volts. Problem is, they are $317. Still, that's in the same ballpark at the OCZ EBs, if they were available. I can't find any reviews or much about them at all, except for what appears on the Mushkin website here: http://www.mushkin.com/doc/products...tail.asp?ID=273

What do you think of these?

I am buying these for the parts that are on the way -- see my sig. Do you think I should make the jump for these? I had been thinking about going for the g-Skills -- either the HZ or the ZX. I know there is a pretty big difference in price between the g-Skills and the Mushkins, and, like everyone else, I don't want to waste my money. On the other hand, I don't want to get memory that will greatly limit my OC. I know with the 2GB kits I'm probably going to have to run a divider, but do you think maybe I'd see higher OC with the Mushkin?

I'd like to order as soon as I can, but I'm going to wait for your advice. Aside from work stuff -- word processing and PhotoShop -- I mostly do some gaming -- BF2, COD2, and I have FEAR on the way, so the 2GB kits seem to make the most sense for me.

Given the parts in my sig, what would you buy? Like I said, I don't want to waste money, but I will gladly spring for the $300+ for the Mushkins if you think it makes sense.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Avalon]

$317 sounds like junk for memory that runs at CAS 3 at 250mhz.
You sure you can't find any leftover Winbond UTT based or Gold VX based memory for sale for much cheaper?

Heck, even TCCD will be much cheaper for you, and those do 250-300mhz at around CAS 2.5, which would be a slight improvement on the performance, major improvement on the price.

Also, if Crucial sells Ballistix still, I remember those could often do 250mhz 2-2-2 as well, and should be much cheaper than $317.

A64 systems like lower timings more than they like memory bandwidth.

*Edit*
Oh, a 2GB kit. Hmm...let me do a quick check on the web.

Wait a sec, Mushkin Extreme Performance PC4000 2GB kit?
$317? It's right here on Newegg for $239.

Text

Here we go, Gskill 2x1GB PC3200, 2-3-2-5 timings. $185.
Text
That's what you want.

 

[rstrohkirch]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820146034

That is the ram he is talking about

A64 systems like lower timings more than they like memory bandwidth.

I don't own an a64 but I'm pretty sure this is backwards

 

[GML3G0]

Originally posted by: Avalon
*Edit*
Oh, a 2GB kit. Hmm...let me do a quick check on the web.

Wait a sec, Mushkin Extreme Performance PC4000 2GB kit?
$317? It's right here on Newegg for $239.

Text

Here we go, Gskill 2x1GB PC3200, 2-3-2-5 timings. $185.
Text
That's what you want.

The Redlines are the cherry picked versions of those Mushkins you lnked.

 

[mikemcc]

The new Redlines may be tightly binned -- I expect (I hope) they are. But they aren't the same 2GB kits that are on Newegg. Those have timings of 3-4-3-8 as compared to the 3-3-2-8 of the new Redlines that are described at Mushkin's website (link in original post). That said, I don't know if there is going to be a huge difference between these two. But if I go with those, I might as well just go for one of the g-Skill kits that I mentioned in the original post. I have heard from a poster in another thread that the new Redlines use the same ICs as those OCZ EB 2GB kits that no one has in stock anymore.

 

[Avalon]

Rstrohkirch: No, that was not backwards. I have owned many A64 systems, ranging from S754 to S939. They like lower timings more than memory bandwidth. That's why Winbond modules were always recommended over TCCD if they could do 250mhz 2-2-2 vs TCCD @ 300mhz 3-3-3-8 or 275mhz 2.5-3-3-6 etc. This is also why running PC2700 on an A64 doesn't hurt your overall performance one bit in 99% of all apps.

GML3G0: Thanks for the clarification.

mikemcc: Is there something spectacular about these Redlines that I am missing? 3-3-2-8 doesn't sound like much of an improvement over 3-4-3-8 at all, especially for the massive jump in cash for them.

Please, take my advice and get the 2-3-2-5 Gskill I linked to in my first post. It is the fastest 2x1GB kit you can get for the money.

 

[mikemcc]

Hi again, Avalon. No, I don't think there is anything spectacular about the Redlines. It is just that, for like three weeks, I had my heart set on those OCZ 4000 EB 2GB kits. So many people seemed to have such good luck with them, and then I waited about two days too long to get them before they went OOS everywhere. These Redlines seem to be very close to those OCZs, so I thought, what the heck.

On the other hand, you make a good point that there doesn't seem to be a great difference for the $100+ between all of these kits. I have been looking very closely at the g-Skills that you mentioned. The price is definitely attractive. I also like the other g-Skills -- the HZ 4000 2 GB kit, but they are almost $50 more. Thanks for the advice. I probably will go and get those g-Skills that you mentioned.

 

[ribbon13]

A64 give more performance from higher DDR than lower latency. Arguement validation. Test results from all kits tested show the same, more FPS and faster SuperPI from higher DDR even with it's higher latency.

The Redlines are better than OCZ. Wanna know why? Because you can actually get a hold of the damn things!

 

[Avalon]

Originally posted by: ribbon13
A64 give more performance from higher DDR than lower latency. Arguement validation. Test results from all kits tested show the same, more FPS and faster SuperPI from higher DDR even with it's higher latency.

The Redlines are better than OCZ. Wanna know why? Because you can actually get a hold of the damn things!

The performance charts on that page do not keep clock speed even.
Even such, the only worthwhile test on that page is the Quake 3 and W:ET tests. Where clock speed is ~+/- 10mhz, the difference is 12fps when we're getting 550fps to start, and 2fps when we're getting 120fps. Different game, same engine. The only thing that can be concluded here is that you gain a fraction of a percentage point in framerates when using higher bandwidth as opposed to lower latency in the quake 3 engine.

When I was referring to latency > bandwidth, I was referring to Winbond 250mhz 2-2-2 vs TCCD 300mhz 3-3-3.

Ribbon, would you prefer to buy a 2gb kit of PC3200 2-3-2-7 for $185, or PC4000 3-3-2-8 for $300?

Chances are the PC3200 won't hit PC4000 speeds, but there are plenty of games out there that like latency more than bandwidth. Plus it will still overclock somewhat.

The key factor for gaming is the video card, anyway. Just get good, low priced memory, and get the best video card possible. That's how I'd do it.

 

[Acanthus]

you dont need tight timings for AMD, please do not waste your money for 1-2% performacne.

High end memory is the worst bang for buck product on the pc market today, even moreso for AMD64.

use a divider.

 

[fbrdphreak]

If you don't want to use a divider, get these Ballistix 2x1GB:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...tem=6817241823&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

Then use the 10% off coupon for $25 off when paying with Paypal and you've got Ballistix for like $270.

I got the G.SKILL DDR400 that does 2-3-2-8 @ 400MHz and I can't get them to pass Memtest @ 250-260MHz; it doesn't even do CL2 @ 236Mhz. Very disappointing for me, I'm probly gonna get a diff DDR500 kit.

 

[Zebo]

Get this For $185 !
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820231032

Low latency 1T and run with divider ~200-220 or if you prefer DDR500 3-3-2 (which is a tad slower)

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: ribbon13
A64 give more performance from higher DDR than lower latency. Arguement validation. Test results from all kits tested show the same, more FPS and faster SuperPI from higher DDR even with it's higher latency.

The Redlines are better than OCZ. Wanna know why? Because you can actually get a hold of the damn things!

I expect better of you ribbon. First of all how high bandwidth and how low latency are we talking here? Second Anand's memory benchmarks are weak no keeping clock speed of processor the same. Any sort of test like this must keep processor same.

I'll guarantee you 2-2-2 @ 200 will beat 3-3-3 at 250 even 3-3-3@275 is give and take..takes about 285 for 3-3-3 to surpass 2-2-2@200. That's why I asked how high and how low. Divider does'nt matter since A64 treats all memory as such, always using a divider.

Anyone in top of cyber olympics over at futuremark uses 2-2-2 AND moderate bandwitdh ~260 even though there are 340Mhz chips out there relizing AMD 64's shine best LL.

 

[mikemcc]

I'm stuck between the g-Skill ZX 2GB kit @ $185 and the HZ 2GB kit @ $233. The only reason is that I have heard that sometimes the DFI nF4 boards don't like the Hynix ICs that the ZX modules use. I don't know if the Samsung UCCC ICs are inherently better, but I haven't heard of as many problems with people using those. So, I'm still stuck, but at least I'm no longer thinking about the much more expensive Mushkins that use the Infineon CE6 ICs. For me, the difference between $185 and $233 isn't really a concern, since I had originally budgeted $300+ for memory, so no matter which I choose, I'm still going to be saving money. (But I've already ordered all of my other parts, so any money I save I'll just have to turn over to my wife.) So, my final question -- and I promise I will then go and buy one of the 2GB kits -- is this: If the difference in price is no real concern, should I go with the ZX (Hynix) kit or the HZ (UCCC) kit?

 

[coomar]

zebo, 260 2-2-2 is moderate bandwith?

 

[Mucker]

Originally posted by: mikemcc
I'm stuck between the g-Skill ZX 2GB kit @ $185 and the HZ 2GB kit @ $233. The only reason is that I have heard that sometimes the DFI nF4 boards don't like the Hynix ICs that the ZX modules use. I don't know if the Samsung UCCC ICs are inherently better, but I haven't heard of as many problems with people using those. So, I'm still stuck, but at least I'm no longer thinking about the much more expensive Mushkins that use the Infineon CE6 ICs. For me, the difference between $185 and $233 isn't really a concern, since I had originally budgeted $300+ for memory, so no matter which I choose, I'm still going to be saving money. (But I've already ordered all of my other parts, so any money I save I'll just have to turn over to my wife.) So, my final question -- and I promise I will then go and buy one of the 2GB kits -- is this: If the difference in price is no real concern, should I go with the ZX (Hynix) kit or the HZ (UCCC) kit?

Here's my ZX (2.7v) on a DFI nF4 Ultra-D: http://members.cox.net/mucker/GSkill/GSkill1Opt.jpg
Where did you hear that these were Hynix? Linky?

These are great sticks, they will do DDR520 stable @ 2.8v @ 3-3-2-5-1T. High performance for the cash. But it looks like the ZX is not listed at Newegg now, they sold like hotcakes over the weekend.

This is not a bad deal if you missed Newegg: http://cgi.ebay.com/FREE-SHP-F1-3200PHU...2QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

m

 

[mikemcc]

Hi Mucker. I got the info on the Hynix D-5 chips at http://www.forumdeluxx.de/forum/showthread.php?t=172428 The table is pretty easy to read, but the discussion is in German. Also, they talk about this in the forums at Xtremesystems. G-Skill has a rep or two there -- they don't reveal the IC's and their published table of all their memory modules lists the ICs for the ZX as "OEM", but the other folks in the forum seem to be pretty certain they are the Hynix chips. I don't have a problem with those, but I had kind of decided that I was going to go with the G-Skill PC400 HZ 2GB kit at Newegg. It's $233. I was thinking of going either with that or the Mushkin PC4000 2GB kit that's marked down from $289 to $239. No hurry on any of it now, as I'm one of apparently many people who bought from Monarch over the holiday only to have them tell me that the same credit card that I have been using for about 15 years has a problem with the billing address. Ugh, yeah. Except when I called my credit card company, they are like, "What? Who has a problem with your address? It hasn't changed in years." Now the stuff that I bought at Monarch is all OOS so I imagine they'll come back and tell me that they can't fulfill the order until who knows when. So it looks like I get to start all over again but without the Oppy 146. I was really close to getting the 3800 X2, so maybe this is someone's way of telling me that I should have gone with that CPU to begin with. And I'm going to stick exclusively with the Egg from now on -- they have done right by me for years and years, and it was probably a mistake to try to save $15 somewhere else!

 

[Mucker]

Thanks for the link and good luck with the HZ. Report back if you can

m

 

[keichan82]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: ribbon13
A64 give more performance from higher DDR than lower latency. Arguement validation. Test results from all kits tested show the same, more FPS and faster SuperPI from higher DDR even with it's higher latency.

The Redlines are better than OCZ. Wanna know why? Because you can actually get a hold of the damn things!

I expect better of you ribbon. First of all how high bandwidth and how low latency are we talking here? Second Anand's memory benchmarks are weak no keeping clock speed of processor the same. Any sort of test like this must keep processor same.

I'll guarantee you 2-2-2 @ 200 will beat 3-3-3 at 250 even 3-3-3@275 is give and take..takes about 285 for 3-3-3 to surpass 2-2-2@200. That's why I asked how high and how low. Divider does'nt matter since A64 treats all memory as such, always using a divider.

Anyone in top of cyber olympics over at futuremark uses 2-2-2 AND moderate bandwitdh ~260 even though there are 340Mhz chips out there relizing AMD 64's shine best LL.

ZEBO is this the same for Opterons Dual Core?.. Opt 175 to be specific
If so I will stay with the OCZ Platinum 2-3-2-5 PC3200
If not I will go with the Mushkin Redline PC4000 3-2-3-8
Thanks